Total Posts:82|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Homosexuality and Family Values

bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:23:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

The only argument I have ever seen against Gay Families that doesn't sound like complete and absolute idiocy is the idea that a kid with two dad or two moms might be subject to bullying because of it. I dont know if this is true or not, but if it is, then it is more of a bully problem than a gay problem.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:25:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:23:32 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

The only argument I have ever seen against Gay Families that doesn't sound like complete and absolute idiocy is the idea that a kid with two dad or two moms might be subject to bullying because of it. I dont know if this is true or not, but if it is, then it is more of a bully problem than a gay problem.

In some places, it's true. But you're right, that's a problem with the bullies not gay people.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

"Family values" is the right's answer to "fair share" and "livable wage".
It's a term that will never be defined, because it is a tool.

That being said, the best meaning behind this might be that gays, of their own abilities, cannot have a "family", as they cannot procreate. However, even that is silly, given the fact that so many people don't have kids.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

That being said, the best meaning behind this might be that gays, of their own abilities, cannot have a "family", as they cannot procreate. However, even that is silly, given the fact that so many people don't have kids.

I think that adopted children or children produced via surrogacy still count as a family though.

Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:31:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

That's pretty much what it is, except the vast majority of people using the term also use it in religious context... which pretty much rules out any sort of relationship that isn't a one-man, one-woman Judeo-Christian marriage.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

A gay family can never embrace 'family values', as defined by those who use the term. It's a political term, just like 'pro-life', 'pro-choice', 'social justice', 'gun safety', etc.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:32:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

"Family values" is the right's answer to "fair share" and "livable wage".
It's a term that will never be defined, because it is a tool.


Pretty much this.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:33:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

That being said, the best meaning behind this might be that gays, of their own abilities, cannot have a "family", as they cannot procreate. However, even that is silly, given the fact that so many people don't have kids.

I think that adopted children or children produced via surrogacy still count as a family though.
When you think of "family values" do you think of adoption or surrogacy? No, you think of bloodlines.
But, as I said, "family values" is meant to be all-inclusive and ambiguous - just like politicians like it.
I don't think I have ever heard a non-political hack use that phrase.

Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.
I hope not. That sounds bad.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:34:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:31:01 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

A gay family can never embrace 'family values', as defined by those who use the term. It's a political term, just like 'pro-life', 'pro-choice', 'social justice', 'gun safety', etc.

I mean family values not in the political sense it is often used in, but in a broader sense.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:36:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:33:41 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

That being said, the best meaning behind this might be that gays, of their own abilities, cannot have a "family", as they cannot procreate. However, even that is silly, given the fact that so many people don't have kids.

I think that adopted children or children produced via surrogacy still count as a family though.
When you think of "family values" do you think of adoption or surrogacy? No, you think of bloodlines.

No. When I think of "family values," I think of a happy family. ANY happy family, whether it includes adopted children or gay parents.

Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.
I hope not. That sounds bad.

Lol...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:38:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

That being said, the best meaning behind this might be that gays, of their own abilities, cannot have a "family", as they cannot procreate. However, even that is silly, given the fact that so many people don't have kids.

I think that adopted children or children produced via surrogacy still count as a family though.

Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.

I dont see how this could be done. An embryo needs DNA from a male and a female in order to survive. Gene splicing cant really fix that.

I really dont mean to be one to burst any bubbles, but my inner scientist needs to point that out.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:39:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:34:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:31:01 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

A gay family can never embrace 'family values', as defined by those who use the term. It's a political term, just like 'pro-life', 'pro-choice', 'social justice', 'gun safety', etc.

I mean family values not in the political sense it is often used in, but in a broader sense.

I would agree with the concept that a gay couple can have a stable, productive relationship. If that's what you mean by 'family values', then my answer would be they can embrace them. I'm not exactly sure on what the statistical fact on how many gay people would fall into that category, however, and I don't really need to know.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:41:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:39:46 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:34:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:31:01 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

A gay family can never embrace 'family values', as defined by those who use the term. It's a political term, just like 'pro-life', 'pro-choice', 'social justice', 'gun safety', etc.

I mean family values not in the political sense it is often used in, but in a broader sense.

I would agree with the concept that a gay couple can have a stable, productive relationship. If that's what you mean by 'family values', then my answer would be they can embrace them. I'm not exactly sure on what the statistical fact on how many gay people would fall into that category, however, and I don't really need to know.

I think most would fall under that umbrella.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:43:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:36:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:

No. When I think of "family values," I think of a happy family. ANY happy family, whether it includes adopted children or gay parents.

When I hear "family", I think of children. (I don't consider a family just a couple)
When I think of children, I think of bloodlines.

Obviously, "family" can be the cast of Rent.
And, since we are talking about the political term, not the broader sense, that is what matters. The broader sense has a broader definition of family, but it also doesn't apply to challenging gay marriage, either.
My work here is, finally, done.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:45:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's how conservatives refer to their religious beliefs that is the literal interpretation of the Bible and blind following of religious leaders.

Liberals tend to have a much different definition, to say the least. The "liberal definition" of "family values" is what homosexuals tend to (99.99999% of the time) follow.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
VelCrow
Posts: 1,273
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:45:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

Fact 1
Single parents could do it.
Fact 2
Most of the time two is better then one.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:45:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:38:04 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

That being said, the best meaning behind this might be that gays, of their own abilities, cannot have a "family", as they cannot procreate. However, even that is silly, given the fact that so many people don't have kids.

I think that adopted children or children produced via surrogacy still count as a family though.

Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.

I dont see how this could be done. An embryo needs DNA from a male and a female in order to survive. Gene splicing cant really fix that.

I really dont mean to be one to burst any bubbles, but my inner scientist needs to point that out.

Thoughts on these:

http://tvtropes.org...
http://www.smartplanet.com...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:49:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:43:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:36:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:

No. When I think of "family values," I think of a happy family. ANY happy family, whether it includes adopted children or gay parents.

When I hear "family", I think of children. (I don't consider a family just a couple)

Me too.

When I think of children, I think of bloodlines.

This is where we differ then.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:50:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:45:35 PM, VelCrow wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

Fact 1
Single parents could do it.
Fact 2
Most of the time two is better then one.

Fact 3
Two of the same gender is still better than a single parent
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:52:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:49:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

When I think of children, I think of bloodlines.

This is where we differ then.

There's a reason stepparents are depicted as evil.
My work here is, finally, done.
kbub
Posts: 1,377
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:52:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

In general yes, because the characteristics of "family values" that politicians have invented are heteronormative. Not that LGBT+ people don't privilege heteronormativity--everyone does sometimes.

However, in general, LGBT+ people make great, open-minded family members who respect their other family members' autonomy, right to self-determination, and identity, and are often inclined to practice unconditional love.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:53:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:52:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:49:20 PM, bsh1 wrote:

When I think of children, I think of bloodlines.

This is where we differ then.

There's a reason stepparents are depicted as evil.

Rofl...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
VelCrow
Posts: 1,273
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:54:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:50:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:45:35 PM, VelCrow wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

I saw what I think to be a very compelling rebuttal to this concept in "The Gay Divide" issue of The Economist. Here is an excerpt:

"But gay America, too, has undergone a transformation. Younger gay people, if they are lucky enough to have grown up in contentedly married households, want the same for themselves...Gay people, ironically, done exactly what religious conservatives long begged them to do: they have embraced 'family values.'" (p. 26)

My question is for you is whether or not you agree that gay-led family's necessary don't embrace family values, and if so, why.

Fact 1
Single parents could do it.
Fact 2
Most of the time two is better then one.

Fact 3
Two of the same gender is still better than a single parent

thats what I mean by fact 2 :D
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:54:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:52:38 PM, kbub wrote:

However, in general, LGBT+ people make great, open-minded family members who respect their other family members' autonomy, right to self-determination, and identity, and are often inclined to practice unconditional love.

Agreed.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:55:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:54:30 PM, VelCrow wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:50:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:45:35 PM, VelCrow wrote:
Fact 1
Single parents could do it.
Fact 2
Most of the time two is better then one.

Fact 3
Two of the same gender is still better than a single parent

thats what I mean by fact 2 :D

Lol...I know. I just wanted to clarify :)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 8:56:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:45:59 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:38:04 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:25:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:18:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I here from many opponents of gay marriage that homosexuality is somehow against family values. To me, "family values" is just a way of saying "straight parenthood," but it just sounds less offensive.

That being said, the best meaning behind this might be that gays, of their own abilities, cannot have a "family", as they cannot procreate. However, even that is silly, given the fact that so many people don't have kids.

I think that adopted children or children produced via surrogacy still count as a family though.

Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.

I dont see how this could be done. An embryo needs DNA from a male and a female in order to survive. Gene splicing cant really fix that.

I really dont mean to be one to burst any bubbles, but my inner scientist needs to point that out.

Thoughts on these:

http://tvtropes.org...
http://www.smartplanet.com...

I wondered if you would bring these up.

Two very different ideas for two very different genomes. The female version is a little easier to do, because you are essentially manufacturing a male zygote out of female DNA. Unless you have supplemental from a y-chromosome (Males only) the chances of the offspring having Triplo-X Aneuploidy are through the roof. The child will also not be able to procreate.

As for the male version, it is impossible as it stands. While they are looking for ways to make it happen, i do not believe they will be able to find one. It is impossible to manufacture a genetically distinct x-chromosome out of male DNA, and it is impossible to have a child without it.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 9:00:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 8:56:54 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:45:59 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:38:04 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.

I dont see how this could be done. An embryo needs DNA from a male and a female in order to survive. Gene splicing cant really fix that.

I really dont mean to be one to burst any bubbles, but my inner scientist needs to point that out.

Thoughts on these:

http://tvtropes.org...
http://www.smartplanet.com...

I wondered if you would bring these up.

Two very different ideas for two very different genomes. The female version is a little easier to do, because you are essentially manufacturing a male zygote out of female DNA. Unless you have supplemental from a y-chromosome (Males only) the chances of the offspring having Triplo-X Aneuploidy are through the roof. The child will also not be able to procreate.

That's good at least.

As for the male version, it is impossible as it stands. While they are looking for ways to make it happen, i do not believe they will be able to find one. It is impossible to manufacture a genetically distinct x-chromosome out of male DNA, and it is impossible to have a child without it.

Why is doing that impossible?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 9:06:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:00:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:56:54 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:45:59 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:38:04 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:28:07 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Hopefully, one day, gene splicing will be advanced enough to enable gay people to procreate. But, I am not scientist, so I can't even be sure this is possible.

I dont see how this could be done. An embryo needs DNA from a male and a female in order to survive. Gene splicing cant really fix that.

I really dont mean to be one to burst any bubbles, but my inner scientist needs to point that out.

Thoughts on these:

http://tvtropes.org...
http://www.smartplanet.com...

I wondered if you would bring these up.

Two very different ideas for two very different genomes. The female version is a little easier to do, because you are essentially manufacturing a male zygote out of female DNA. Unless you have supplemental from a y-chromosome (Males only) the chances of the offspring having Triplo-X Aneuploidy are through the roof. The child will also not be able to procreate.

That's good at least.

As for the male version, it is impossible as it stands. While they are looking for ways to make it happen, i do not believe they will be able to find one. It is impossible to manufacture a genetically distinct x-chromosome out of male DNA, and it is impossible to have a child without it.

Why is doing that impossible?

Because it almost always results in an aneupliody that apoptoses the zygote. I am shady on the details, it has been a while since I did anything in genetics. I would advise looking up details on chromosomal aberrations.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 9:16:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:06:26 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:00:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:56:54 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
As for the male version, it is impossible as it stands. While they are looking for ways to make it happen, i do not believe they will be able to find one. It is impossible to manufacture a genetically distinct x-chromosome out of male DNA, and it is impossible to have a child without it.

Why is doing that impossible?

Because it almost always results in an aneupliody that apoptoses the zygote.

In English?

I am shady on the details, it has been a while since I did anything in genetics. I would advise looking up details on chromosomal aberrations.

Okay--maybe later.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 9:17:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 9:16:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:06:26 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 9:00:39 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/21/2014 8:56:54 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
As for the male version, it is impossible as it stands. While they are looking for ways to make it happen, i do not believe they will be able to find one. It is impossible to manufacture a genetically distinct x-chromosome out of male DNA, and it is impossible to have a child without it.

Why is doing that impossible?

Because it almost always results in an aneupliody that apoptoses the zygote.

In English?

Sorry. A mutation that kills the kid.


I am shady on the details, it has been a while since I did anything in genetics. I would advise looking up details on chromosomal aberrations.

Okay--maybe later.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!