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The struggles of being Mexican

Truth_seeker
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11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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11/14/2014 7:58:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Wait...what do you mean there is no legal way to cross over to America from Mexico?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
paininthenuts
Posts: 161
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11/15/2014 5:18:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

===================

Look on the bright side and get that chip off of your shoulder. Mexican food is great, and you have lovely beaches !!
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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11/21/2014 3:38:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/14/2014 7:58:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Wait...what do you mean there is no legal way to cross over to America from Mexico?

Meaning that Mexicans cannot become American citizens "the legal way." Mexico will not allow them to live in America. You can pay for visas and trips, but only within a few months or at least a year. Where i live, it takes 10 years to get a green card which isn't enough time to be a legal citizen.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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11/21/2014 3:46:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 3:38:56 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:58:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Wait...what do you mean there is no legal way to cross over to America from Mexico?

Meaning that Mexicans cannot become American citizens "the legal way." Mexico will not allow them to live in America. You can pay for visas and trips, but only within a few months or at least a year. Where i live, it takes 10 years to get a green card which isn't enough time to be a legal citizen.

So it's mostly due to a corrupt and bureaucratic government?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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11/21/2014 3:52:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 3:46:48 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/21/2014 3:38:56 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:58:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Wait...what do you mean there is no legal way to cross over to America from Mexico?

Meaning that Mexicans cannot become American citizens "the legal way." Mexico will not allow them to live in America. You can pay for visas and trips, but only within a few months or at least a year. Where i live, it takes 10 years to get a green card which isn't enough time to be a legal citizen.

So it's mostly due to a corrupt and bureaucratic government?

Yea and it doesn't make it any easier when this country passes laws to keep illegals out. Sure i agree that some really don't need to be here, but at least kick the criminals who committed serious crimes out. I appreciate Obama trying to help those who want to start a better life to escape from very bad poverty, but that's about it.
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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11/21/2014 3:53:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Thanks for sharing. I'm so sorry to hear that your brother wasn't given citizenship.

I share your view that the US immigration policy and enforcement is inhumane and irrational. I hope things improve soon for you and your family, and hope you and your brother are reunited.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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11/21/2014 4:03:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 3:52:16 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 11/21/2014 3:46:48 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/21/2014 3:38:56 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 11/14/2014 7:58:44 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Wait...what do you mean there is no legal way to cross over to America from Mexico?

Meaning that Mexicans cannot become American citizens "the legal way." Mexico will not allow them to live in America. You can pay for visas and trips, but only within a few months or at least a year. Where i live, it takes 10 years to get a green card which isn't enough time to be a legal citizen.

So it's mostly due to a corrupt and bureaucratic government?

Yea and it doesn't make it any easier when this country passes laws to keep illegals out. Sure i agree that some really don't need to be here, but at least kick the criminals who committed serious crimes out. I appreciate Obama trying to help those who want to start a better life to escape from very bad poverty, but that's about it.

Here's my proposal to fix the problem:
http://www.debate.org...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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11/21/2014 4:09:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 3:53:09 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Thanks for sharing. I'm so sorry to hear that your brother wasn't given citizenship.

I share your view that the US immigration policy and enforcement is inhumane and irrational. I hope things improve soon for you and your family, and hope you and your brother are reunited.

Thanks, but it's just hard to ignore race when racism still exists otherwise i wouldn't be making this post. I'm pretty angry at this country more than others mainly because it uses my religion for it's own personal gains and goes behind the name of justice, freedom, and good will to all men. I'm disgusted by the way blacks and other races are stereotyped in the media. I've hanged around blacks long enough to understand the struggle of being discriminated against because of your skin tone. I'm also angered by the fact that my family respects "the white man" to fit in more than he does other races which makes me dislike some aspects of the American culture. I'm not racist against white people because i like some but i'm against "white supremacy" in subtle forms.
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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11/21/2014 5:20:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 4:09:41 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 11/21/2014 3:53:09 PM, kbub wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

Thanks for sharing. I'm so sorry to hear that your brother wasn't given citizenship.

I share your view that the US immigration policy and enforcement is inhumane and irrational. I hope things improve soon for you and your family, and hope you and your brother are reunited.

Thanks, but it's just hard to ignore race when racism still exists otherwise i wouldn't be making this post. I'm pretty angry at this country more than others mainly because it uses my religion for it's own personal gains and goes behind the name of justice, freedom, and good will to all men. I'm disgusted by the way blacks and other races are stereotyped in the media. I've hanged around blacks long enough to understand the struggle of being discriminated against because of your skin tone. I'm also angered by the fact that my family respects "the white man" to fit in more than he does other races which makes me dislike some aspects of the American culture. I'm not racist against white people because i like some but i'm against "white supremacy" in subtle forms.

I feel ya completely. Thanks for your post. I hope you stay on this website/social platform!
sadolite
Posts: 8,833
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11/21/2014 8:39:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

"Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans."

Then move to Mexico and be with your people. See, here in America we don't give a carp where you or your ancestors come from nor do we give a crap about your culture. See, the way it works here is you leave your culture at the place you left and assimilate to American culture. We don't make special exceptions because of where you come from or what religion you are or the color of your skin. The people of Mexico outnumber the corrupt 5 million to one. If they are not willing to sacrifice a few lives like we do in this country by the thousands each year to preserve freedom then the people of mexico deserve to live in the crap hole conditions they live in.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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11/21/2014 10:55:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

I have a hard time sympathizing with foreigners who don't care about our laws and protocols. IMHO, it's abhorrent that you feel the way you do as I feel it's not just.

For one, how do you think this country was founded?

Two, What do you think many of the immigrants of back then had to go through when they came into the port of New York or Baltimore?

Three, where do you think the derogatory names came from like Crout or Wop?

Four, many immigrants back then took ten years before they became official citizens.

Five, What do you consider "white supremacy"?

Six, What was the effects of multiculturalism in Ancient Rome?

Seven, how do you think rising presence of ISIS affects immigration?

I'll leave you with these comments and questions for now.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 8:39:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

"Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans."

Then move to Mexico and be with your people. See, here in America we don't give a carp where you or your ancestors come from nor do we give a crap about your culture. See, the way it works here is you leave your culture at the place you left and assimilate to American culture. We don't make special exceptions because of where you come from or what religion you are or the color of your skin. The people of Mexico outnumber the corrupt 5 million to one. If they are not willing to sacrifice a few lives like we do in this country by the thousands each year to preserve freedom then the people of mexico deserve to live in the crap hole conditions they live in.

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.
sadolite
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11/22/2014 6:38:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 11/21/2014 8:39:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

"Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans."

Then move to Mexico and be with your people. See, here in America we don't give a carp where you or your ancestors come from nor do we give a crap about your culture. See, the way it works here is you leave your culture at the place you left and assimilate to American culture. We don't make special exceptions because of where you come from or what religion you are or the color of your skin. The people of Mexico outnumber the corrupt 5 million to one. If they are not willing to sacrifice a few lives like we do in this country by the thousands each year to preserve freedom then the people of mexico deserve to live in the crap hole conditions they live in.

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.

Drug dealers are a law enforcement issue, it is not an act of war. It is not a "tradition" of the American Military to go to war it is only done to defend those countries who have no visible means to defend themselves from tyranny. Mexico is so rich with natural resources it should be better off than the US. It is the apathy and stupidity of the people that lets drug cartels rule and terrorize the mexican people.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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11/22/2014 6:46:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 6:38:08 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 11/21/2014 8:39:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

"Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans."

Then move to Mexico and be with your people. See, here in America we don't give a carp where you or your ancestors come from nor do we give a crap about your culture. See, the way it works here is you leave your culture at the place you left and assimilate to American culture. We don't make special exceptions because of where you come from or what religion you are or the color of your skin. The people of Mexico outnumber the corrupt 5 million to one. If they are not willing to sacrifice a few lives like we do in this country by the thousands each year to preserve freedom then the people of mexico deserve to live in the crap hole conditions they live in.

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.

Drug dealers are a law enforcement issue, it is not an act of war. It is not a "tradition" of the American Military to go to war it is only done to defend those countries who have no visible means to defend themselves from tyranny. Mexico is so rich with natural resources it should be better off than the US. It is the apathy and stupidity of the people that lets drug cartels rule and terrorize the mexican people.

^ The comment above me is a libertarian viewpoint of this issue, just like with many other foreign affair issues. I could go on all day about all the times the United States intervened in situations where liberty and freedom were threatened.
Haroush
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11/22/2014 6:52:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I should also note the viewpoint above mine is a viewpoint like that of Rand Paul. This is the reason I don't like Rand Paul, when it comes to foreign affairs he is just like Obama, he doesn't want to do nothing to help democracy where ever it is threatened.
Haroush
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11/22/2014 7:06:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 6:38:08 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 11/21/2014 8:39:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

"Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans."

Then move to Mexico and be with your people. See, here in America we don't give a carp where you or your ancestors come from nor do we give a crap about your culture. See, the way it works here is you leave your culture at the place you left and assimilate to American culture. We don't make special exceptions because of where you come from or what religion you are or the color of your skin. The people of Mexico outnumber the corrupt 5 million to one. If they are not willing to sacrifice a few lives like we do in this country by the thousands each year to preserve freedom then the people of mexico deserve to live in the crap hole conditions they live in.

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.

Drug dealers are a law enforcement issue, it is not an act of war. It is not a "tradition" of the American Military to go to war it is only done to defend those countries who have no visible means to defend themselves from tyranny. Mexico is so rich with natural resources it should be better off than the US. It is the apathy and stupidity of the people that lets drug cartels rule and terrorize the mexican people.

Furthermore, over half of Mexico's law enforcement is corrupt.. How can regular citizens be able to defend theirselves against a militia and a police department. Shoot, even our colonial military had to be trained by British nationals when this country was first started.
DarthVitiosus
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11/22/2014 8:27:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/13/2014 11:52:57 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
For a long time, i realized the hardships of being Mexican and dealing with racism. I am becoming more in tune with my Mexican roots and i hate it when people in this country seem to talk down on Mexicans and/or stereotype the culture. It also angers me that the rich and those born here are entitled to human rights while illegal immigrants are treated as outcasts. I am hostile towards America because they refused to give my brother his citizenship and his dream when he worked hard all of his life to achieve it. He clearly deserves my rights and citizenship because i never understood what it's like to live in Mexican poverty. Ethnically, the illegal immigrants and other Mexicans are my people not the Americans.

There is no legal way to cross over to America because Mexico will not allow any citizen to leave. Not to mention that people come over here because Mexico is run by crime lords, corrupt leaders, and gangsters. If you try to help improve the conditions over there, you will be silenced even if it means killing you. I'm outraged at the arrogance displayed by this country and how it treats others who are not American.

1) If you are hostile towards America, why live in it? If America is so racist, why not move to Mexico?

2) What makes you think illegal immigrants should retain the same rights as law abiding American citizens?

3) What makes you think illegal immigrants should obtain citizenship over immigrants who come here legally with work visas and green cards?
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#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
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11/22/2014 8:43:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM, Haroush wrote:

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.

I disagree, nation building has nothing to do with American values. Why do you think the United States never raised a ruckus with non-communist dictators like Mobutu, Pinochet, Papa Doc and many others? I am not stating whether we should or shouldn't be engaging in nation building but it is certainly not an American value to go about wage wars for freedom and liberty. Vietnam and Korean wars were started to stop communism not to spread liberty and freedom. The war in Afghanistan was defense against Al Qaeda. Iraq was started to find weapons of mass destruction. No American war was started to spread liberty and freedom. Even the Civil War was waged by Lincoln to keep the Union together not to end slavery.

The United States shouldn't intervene in Mexico because there are no allies of any significance in that country. Just to paraphrase the OP, stand up against the corruption and you probably will be shot. This is truth for many parts of Mexico. Either way, Mexico is not an ally, it is just a country we tolerate.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
Haroush
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11/22/2014 9:11:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 8:43:37 AM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM, Haroush wrote:

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.

I disagree, nation building has nothing to do with American values. Why do you think the United States never raised a ruckus with non-communist dictators like Mobutu, Pinochet, Papa Doc and many others? I am not stating whether we should or shouldn't be engaging in nation building but it is certainly not an American value to go about wage wars for freedom and liberty. Vietnam and Korean wars were started to stop communism not to spread liberty and freedom. The war in Afghanistan was defense against Al Qaeda. Iraq was started to find weapons of mass destruction. No American war was started to spread liberty and freedom. Even the Civil War was waged by Lincoln to keep the Union together not to end slavery.

The United States shouldn't intervene in Mexico because there are no allies of any significance in that country. Just to paraphrase the OP, stand up against the corruption and you probably will be shot. This is truth for many parts of Mexico. Either way, Mexico is not an ally, it is just a country we tolerate.

I know you disagree, but I am 100% sure you are wrong. The Iraq war was also called Operation Iraqi Freedom because we were helping establishing their independence to create their own democracy.. Which we did establish, but didn't complete do to our emporer and chief.
Haroush
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11/22/2014 9:15:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
As far as us not having allies in Mexico.. we can develop allied relationships in Mexico.. All you have to do is communicate properly (which includes actions) and everything will turn out right.
DarthVitiosus
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11/22/2014 9:26:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 9:11:31 AM, Haroush wrote:
At 11/22/2014 8:43:37 AM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM, Haroush wrote:

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.

I disagree, nation building has nothing to do with American values. Why do you think the United States never raised a ruckus with non-communist dictators like Mobutu, Pinochet, Papa Doc and many others? I am not stating whether we should or shouldn't be engaging in nation building but it is certainly not an American value to go about wage wars for freedom and liberty. Vietnam and Korean wars were started to stop communism not to spread liberty and freedom. The war in Afghanistan was defense against Al Qaeda. Iraq was started to find weapons of mass destruction. No American war was started to spread liberty and freedom. Even the Civil War was waged by Lincoln to keep the Union together not to end slavery.

The United States shouldn't intervene in Mexico because there are no allies of any significance in that country. Just to paraphrase the OP, stand up against the corruption and you probably will be shot. This is truth for many parts of Mexico. Either way, Mexico is not an ally, it is just a country we tolerate.

I know you disagree, but I am 100% sure you are wrong. The Iraq war was also called Operation Iraqi Freedom because we were helping establishing their independence to create their own democracy.. Which we did establish, but didn't complete do to our emporer and chief.

What the intent of Operation Iraqi Freedom? Was it to find weapons of mass destruction? Or was it to create a democracy in Iraq? I don't remember hearing congressmen debate whether they wanted to make Iraq into a democracy when the debate over whether to invade Iraq or not to invade was happening. When Colin Powell came before the UN it had nothing to do democracy. Powell was stating that Iraq was becoming a threat due to their potential ability to use and make weapons of mass destruction.

Anyways, you are moving goals posts here. You said "it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe." I refuted the claim by showing multiple American wars and you brought up one recent example which can't be authoritatively supported here. If it was always the American tradition you shouldn't be able to only focus on one example that was recent.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
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11/22/2014 9:30:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 9:15:13 AM, Haroush wrote:
As far as us not having allies in Mexico.. we can develop allied relationships in Mexico.. All you have to do is communicate properly (which includes actions) and everything will turn out right.

I don't think so, this is adventurism and meddling to say the least. Mexico is hardly a concern of the United States because it does not present a threat. To directly interfere in a non-threatening country is overreach to say the least. I am not stating nothing should be done. But military intervention is uncalled for in this situation.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
Haroush
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11/22/2014 10:20:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 9:30:10 AM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 11/22/2014 9:15:13 AM, Haroush wrote:
As far as us not having allies in Mexico.. we can develop allied relationships in Mexico.. All you have to do is communicate properly (which includes actions) and everything will turn out right.

I don't think so, this is adventurism and meddling to say the least. Mexico is hardly a concern of the United States because it does not present a threat. To directly interfere in a non-threatening country is overreach to say the least. I am not stating nothing should be done. But military intervention is uncalled for in this situation.

I think a lot of people will disagree with this statement as their problems are already causing national security issues here in the U.S.
Haroush
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11/22/2014 10:22:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 9:26:03 AM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 11/22/2014 9:11:31 AM, Haroush wrote:
At 11/22/2014 8:43:37 AM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 11/21/2014 11:09:25 PM, Haroush wrote:

I disagree with this comment as it is insensitive and immoral according to our American values. Though I do agree mexican citizens need to invest in their own country. At same time, it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe. This especially goes for situations like that in Mexico.

To be honest, our military should have been in Mexico a long time ago to give Mexican citizens their independence back from the drug cartels.

I disagree, nation building has nothing to do with American values. Why do you think the United States never raised a ruckus with non-communist dictators like Mobutu, Pinochet, Papa Doc and many others? I am not stating whether we should or shouldn't be engaging in nation building but it is certainly not an American value to go about wage wars for freedom and liberty. Vietnam and Korean wars were started to stop communism not to spread liberty and freedom. The war in Afghanistan was defense against Al Qaeda. Iraq was started to find weapons of mass destruction. No American war was started to spread liberty and freedom. Even the Civil War was waged by Lincoln to keep the Union together not to end slavery.

The United States shouldn't intervene in Mexico because there are no allies of any significance in that country. Just to paraphrase the OP, stand up against the corruption and you probably will be shot. This is truth for many parts of Mexico. Either way, Mexico is not an ally, it is just a country we tolerate.

I know you disagree, but I am 100% sure you are wrong. The Iraq war was also called Operation Iraqi Freedom because we were helping establishing their independence to create their own democracy.. Which we did establish, but didn't complete do to our emporer and chief.

What the intent of Operation Iraqi Freedom? Was it to find weapons of mass destruction? Or was it to create a democracy in Iraq? I don't remember hearing congressmen debate whether they wanted to make Iraq into a democracy when the debate over whether to invade Iraq or not to invade was happening. When Colin Powell came before the UN it had nothing to do democracy. Powell was stating that Iraq was becoming a threat due to their potential ability to use and make weapons of mass destruction.

Anyways, you are moving goals posts here. You said "it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe." I refuted the claim by showing multiple American wars and you brought up one recent example which can't be authoritatively supported here. If it was always the American tradition you shouldn't be able to only focus on one example that was recent.

This is your own authoritive opinion, let's see what the audience has to say.
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11/22/2014 10:43:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 10:20:13 AM, Haroush wrote:

I think a lot of people will disagree with this statement as their problems are already causing national security issues here in the U.S.

That is a fallacy appeal to popularity. It doesn't matter if a lot of people agree. It is a question of is a threat to national security. That is why many foreign policy experts were scratching their heads when people were demanding justice for Kony when he didn't present a national security threat at all. There is no foreign policy expert of significance that has shown any facts supporting the claim that Mexico is a threat to national security.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
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11/22/2014 10:43:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 10:22:24 AM, Haroush wrote:

What the intent of Operation Iraqi Freedom? Was it to find weapons of mass destruction? Or was it to create a democracy in Iraq? I don't remember hearing congressmen debate whether they wanted to make Iraq into a democracy when the debate over whether to invade Iraq or not to invade was happening. When Colin Powell came before the UN it had nothing to do democracy. Powell was stating that Iraq was becoming a threat due to their potential ability to use and make weapons of mass destruction.

Anyways, you are moving goals posts here. You said "it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe." I refuted the claim by showing multiple American wars and you brought up one recent example which can't be authoritatively supported here. If it was always the American tradition you shouldn't be able to only focus on one example that was recent.

This is your own authoritive opinion, let's see what the audience has to say.

The audience? Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. I did not offer an opinion. I offered facts. I said you could go back and look at the congressional debates that led into the Iraqi invasion. You could also go back and look at Colin Powell's speech in the UN which was about ten days before the UN inspection for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Then you can even look at the press statements by the Bush administration prior to the Iraq invasion. The facts are there clearly stated by the architects of the Operation Iraqi Feedom.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
Haroush
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11/22/2014 10:55:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 10:43:12 AM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 11/22/2014 10:22:24 AM, Haroush wrote:

What the intent of Operation Iraqi Freedom? Was it to find weapons of mass destruction? Or was it to create a democracy in Iraq? I don't remember hearing congressmen debate whether they wanted to make Iraq into a democracy when the debate over whether to invade Iraq or not to invade was happening. When Colin Powell came before the UN it had nothing to do democracy. Powell was stating that Iraq was becoming a threat due to their potential ability to use and make weapons of mass destruction.

Anyways, you are moving goals posts here. You said "it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe." I refuted the claim by showing multiple American wars and you brought up one recent example which can't be authoritatively supported here. If it was always the American tradition you shouldn't be able to only focus on one example that was recent.

This is your own authoritive opinion, let's see what the audience has to say.

The audience? Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. I did not offer an opinion. I offered facts. I said you could go back and look at the congressional debates that led into the Iraqi invasion. You could also go back and look at Colin Powell's speech in the UN which was about ten days before the UN inspection for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Then you can even look at the press statements by the Bush administration prior to the Iraq invasion. The facts are there clearly stated by the architects of the Operation Iraqi Feedom.

Yeah? And what about all the congressional speeches that supports my comments? Lastly, I believe my last sentence is suffice as evidence unless you want me to provide specific examples of what I am talking about?
DarthVitiosus
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11/22/2014 11:13:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/22/2014 10:55:00 AM, Haroush wrote:
At 11/22/2014 10:43:12 AM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 11/22/2014 10:22:24 AM, Haroush wrote:

What the intent of Operation Iraqi Freedom? Was it to find weapons of mass destruction? Or was it to create a democracy in Iraq? I don't remember hearing congressmen debate whether they wanted to make Iraq into a democracy when the debate over whether to invade Iraq or not to invade was happening. When Colin Powell came before the UN it had nothing to do democracy. Powell was stating that Iraq was becoming a threat due to their potential ability to use and make weapons of mass destruction.

Anyways, you are moving goals posts here. You said "it has always been American tradition for our military to intervene in situations where liberty and freedom is threatened around the globe." I refuted the claim by showing multiple American wars and you brought up one recent example which can't be authoritatively supported here. If it was always the American tradition you shouldn't be able to only focus on one example that was recent.

This is your own authoritive opinion, let's see what the audience has to say.

The audience? Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. I did not offer an opinion. I offered facts. I said you could go back and look at the congressional debates that led into the Iraqi invasion. You could also go back and look at Colin Powell's speech in the UN which was about ten days before the UN inspection for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Then you can even look at the press statements by the Bush administration prior to the Iraq invasion. The facts are there clearly stated by the architects of the Operation Iraqi Feedom.

Yeah? And what about all the congressional speeches that supports my comments? Lastly, I believe my last sentence is suffice as evidence unless you want me to provide specific examples of what I am talking about?

There are no facts of singificance that support your claim. The debate on the resolution had nothing to do with democracy. Most of the debate on the resolution related to weapons of mass destruction and removing Saddam Hussein. The advocates of the war changed their justification of the war after little to no weapons of mass destruction were not found. The only thing that was found was a nuclear centrifuge in a backyard but that was not what they were looking for. Then the advocates tried to flip their justification ranging to that Iraq war related to Al Qaeda to things such as promoting democracy in Iraq.

http://www.sourcewatch.org...

Then on top of that you have moved goal posts as I said earlier. You said it was an American tradition to spread liberty and freedom when you have only shown one war that probably doesn't support your claim. This point about an American tradition spreading liberty and freedom has been refuted thoroughly which was the original point I was contesting.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.