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Having and open mind.

kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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1/8/2015 10:25:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
2 timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

It seems obvious that this time has come. "We the people" collectively do not endure sound doctrine, or in other words "truth." Rather than accept truth, we seek after our own lusts and heap to ourselves teachers, having itching ears. This is true both in a religious sense and a secular sense. It is the latter I wish to address.

The underlying issue:

It seems to me that "we the people" generally look for "truth" only from sources we deem acceptable. This is, to put it bluntly, a stupid way to search for truth. Let me give you some examples of what I am talking about.

Generally "Conservatives" may watch Fox News. It is not hard to imagine why; it has a conservative perspective. It articulates conservative views. It may validate the average conservative. However, Fox News is far from infallible as a reliable source.

Likewise, Generally "Liberals" may watch MSNBC. It is not hard to imagine why; it has a liberal perspective. It articulates liberal views. It may validate the average liberal. However, MSNBC is far from infallible as a reliable source.

The danger is not in watching what we agree with, it is ignoring all other sources. This issue does not just apply to news. How often do we discredit a source of information because if comes from what we deem "their" source, and "they" don"t agree with me. "They" must be dishonest. We need to stop only accepting the knowledge and opinions that fit our already existing view of things.

The point of knowledge and truth is to broaden our view, expand our understanding, and open our eyes. How can that happen when we are only willing to look at a source if the source already agrees with our conclusion? This is especially important as there are those who "lie in wait to deceive" from all sides of a topic.

Have you been affected by this approach?

I am going to list topics that have become polarized. It is likely those of you reading this already have an idea of what you think the "truth" is about these issues. I ask you to sincerely try to look at the "other" side of these issues. Global Warming, Feminism, Evolution, Racism, white privilege, education, medication" really anything religious or political.

The Truth about perspective:

Truth and knowledge are not polarized as we portray it. Facts do not have a bias. They are objective. Interpreting facts, on the other hand, is very subjective. It can be biased. It is worth learning how to separate facts and knowledge from the way it is presented to us. Often our perspective determines what we see. When studying an issue, try to look at it from another perspective.

I am a firm believer of the benefits that come from liberty of thoughts and discussions. John Stuart Mill concludes that when people do not listen to opposing opinions one of two things can happen. "If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."

I ask each of you reading and myself, to not seek after our own lusts and heap to ourselves teachers, having itching ears. I ask that we don"t look for only that knowledge and perspectives that validate what we already think. I ask that we try to listen to an opposing opinion, and understand it. Too broaden our view, expand our understanding, and open our eyes. I ask that we examine topics that we might usually dismiss. By doing these things we will have the "opportunity of exchanging error for truth" and "the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/8/2015 10:31:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:25:15 AM, kasmic wrote:
2 timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

It seems obvious that this time has come. "We the people" collectively do not endure sound doctrine, or in other words "truth." Rather than accept truth, we seek after our own lusts and heap to ourselves teachers, having itching ears. This is true both in a religious sense and a secular sense. It is the latter I wish to address.

The underlying issue:

It seems to me that "we the people" generally look for "truth" only from sources we deem acceptable. This is, to put it bluntly, a stupid way to search for truth. Let me give you some examples of what I am talking about.

Generally "Conservatives" may watch Fox News. It is not hard to imagine why; it has a conservative perspective. It articulates conservative views. It may validate the average conservative. However, Fox News is far from infallible as a reliable source.

Likewise, Generally "Liberals" may watch MSNBC. It is not hard to imagine why; it has a liberal perspective. It articulates liberal views. It may validate the average liberal. However, MSNBC is far from infallible as a reliable source.

The danger is not in watching what we agree with, it is ignoring all other sources. This issue does not just apply to news. How often do we discredit a source of information because if comes from what we deem "their" source, and "they" don"t agree with me. "They" must be dishonest. We need to stop only accepting the knowledge and opinions that fit our already existing view of things.

The point of knowledge and truth is to broaden our view, expand our understanding, and open our eyes. How can that happen when we are only willing to look at a source if the source already agrees with our conclusion? This is especially important as there are those who "lie in wait to deceive" from all sides of a topic.

Have you been affected by this approach?

I am going to list topics that have become polarized. It is likely those of you reading this already have an idea of what you think the "truth" is about these issues. I ask you to sincerely try to look at the "other" side of these issues. Global Warming, Feminism, Evolution, Racism, white privilege, education, medication" really anything religious or political.

The Truth about perspective:

Truth and knowledge are not polarized as we portray it. Facts do not have a bias. They are objective. Interpreting facts, on the other hand, is very subjective. It can be biased. It is worth learning how to separate facts and knowledge from the way it is presented to us. Often our perspective determines what we see. When studying an issue, try to look at it from another perspective.

I am a firm believer of the benefits that come from liberty of thoughts and discussions. John Stuart Mill concludes that when people do not listen to opposing opinions one of two things can happen. "If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."

I ask each of you reading and myself, to not seek after our own lusts and heap to ourselves teachers, having itching ears. I ask that we don"t look for only that knowledge and perspectives that validate what we already think. I ask that we try to listen to an opposing opinion, and understand it. Too broaden our view, expand our understanding, and open our eyes. I ask that we examine topics that we might usually dismiss. By doing these things we will have the "opportunity of exchanging error for truth" and "the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."

I strongly adhere to this doctrine. My website's theme completely revolves around this idea that you need to do your own research, think for yourself and not fall prey to media bias and mob fervor's and such. So I'm glad other people are also catching onto this. Nice job.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/11/2015 1:59:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Does it really say that. Itching ears?

How would you like to be that kind of teacher? And you could be standing there with your itching ears itching like mad, and you would like to scratch your head off, but you know if you do it the whole class will do it unconsciously as soon as you do, so what are you going to do with your itching ears?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/11/2015 7:09:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:25:15 AM, kasmic wrote:
It seems to me that "we the people" generally look for "truth" only from sources we deem acceptable.

You make some great points. Honestly, the evolution of my ideals makes me somewhat proud. While I cringe at thinking how wrong/right I probably was at various points in my life, I'm glad that I kept an open mind and tried to make the most reasonable decision with the information I had available to me at the time. If I refused to budge, it would just likely prove I was arrogant and had significant intellectual biases.

A lot of smart debates with intelligent and/or convincing people have helped shape my ideas a great deal over the last 7 years (and before, but especially on DDO) by exposing me to new viewpoints and resources of which I was previously unfamiliar. Sometimes I debate to challenge my persuasive writing skills; sometimes I genuinely want to change someone's mind (eg. the debate I'm doing now on gay parenting with 16k -- it's a little personal to me since, um, I will be a gay parent in a few years) and others -- like the one I'm doing with you on democracy -- is genuinely to test and challenge my ideals.

I truly believe democracy should be scrapped for more libertarian principles. I am open to you convincing me of otherwise. I just finished a debate about making the military smaller; my opponent has not convinced me of otherwise even though I was genuinely open to that POV. So being aware of your bias and inhibitions is good. Being open is good. All you can do is be patient and try to present the info that convinced you to other people, and hope truth and logic can overcome a ton of influencing factors in our imperfect decision making and reasoning process. Exposing yourself to different POVs on purpose is also important. Try to find the smartest people who disagree with you and strike up a chat with them. That kinda stuff.
President of DDO
Harper
Posts: 374
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1/11/2015 3:15:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:25:15 AM, kasmic wrote:
2 timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

It seems obvious that this time has come. "We the people" collectively do not endure sound doctrine, or in other words "truth." Rather than accept truth, we seek after our own lusts and heap to ourselves teachers, having itching ears. This is true both in a religious sense and a secular sense. It is the latter I wish to address.

The underlying issue:

It seems to me that "we the people" generally look for "truth" only from sources we deem acceptable. This is, to put it bluntly, a stupid way to search for truth. Let me give you some examples of what I am talking about.

Generally "Conservatives" may watch Fox News. It is not hard to imagine why; it has a conservative perspective. It articulates conservative views. It may validate the average conservative. However, Fox News is far from infallible as a reliable source.

Likewise, Generally "Liberals" may watch MSNBC. It is not hard to imagine why; it has a liberal perspective. It articulates liberal views. It may validate the average liberal. However, MSNBC is far from infallible as a reliable source.

The danger is not in watching what we agree with, it is ignoring all other sources. This issue does not just apply to news. How often do we discredit a source of information because if comes from what we deem "their" source, and "they" don"t agree with me. "They" must be dishonest. We need to stop only accepting the knowledge and opinions that fit our already existing view of things.

The point of knowledge and truth is to broaden our view, expand our understanding, and open our eyes. How can that happen when we are only willing to look at a source if the source already agrees with our conclusion? This is especially important as there are those who "lie in wait to deceive" from all sides of a topic.

Have you been affected by this approach?

I am going to list topics that have become polarized. It is likely those of you reading this already have an idea of what you think the "truth" is about these issues. I ask you to sincerely try to look at the "other" side of these issues. Global Warming, Feminism, Evolution, Racism, white privilege, education, medication" really anything religious or political.

The Truth about perspective:

Truth and knowledge are not polarized as we portray it. Facts do not have a bias. They are objective. Interpreting facts, on the other hand, is very subjective. It can be biased. It is worth learning how to separate facts and knowledge from the way it is presented to us. Often our perspective determines what we see. When studying an issue, try to look at it from another perspective.

I am a firm believer of the benefits that come from liberty of thoughts and discussions. John Stuart Mill concludes that when people do not listen to opposing opinions one of two things can happen. "If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."

I ask each of you reading and myself, to not seek after our own lusts and heap to ourselves teachers, having itching ears. I ask that we don"t look for only that knowledge and perspectives that validate what we already think. I ask that we try to listen to an opposing opinion, and understand it. Too broaden our view, expand our understanding, and open our eyes. I ask that we examine topics that we might usually dismiss. By doing these things we will have the "opportunity of exchanging error for truth" and "the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."

This, I think, comes from the tendency to identify with one's beliefs. If someone's political doctrine or religion is attacked, they take it as an attack on them personally. People need to begin to look at their philosophies as an ongoing project rather than a part of who they are as a person.

I consider myself an almost radically open minded person. I came out this way not only because I am naturally skeptical, but also because I am the child of warring cultures-- my parents are Muslim Arabs but I went to Western schools with Christian people. Sometimes my parents would flip on the Arabic news and it would be filled to the brim with propaganda and contradiction. Then they would flip to the American news and again, tons of propaganda and contradiction. I learned from a very early age that you must consider every side of the story and that we are being lied to every day, no matter which "side" you are on. I learned to emotionally disconnect myself from my personal status as an ethnically Arab person and as a natural born American.
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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1/11/2015 3:47:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
While opening one's mind is essential to intellectual growth and accumulating wisdom, I believe is nonetheless important to cover that open mind with a critical thinking filter.

If I may use a non-religious/political example.

I am told there is a monster in Bear Lake. I open my mind to the possibility, but push the information through the critical thinking filter.

Science dictates that there should be a breeding population, not just one creature.

A breeding population of air breathing creatures up to 150 feet in length (as they are described) would be frequently seen by the large population of people who live near and visit the lake.

And there are many other points that would need to be filtered.

Without that filter, I would be allowing unproven information to contaminate my intellect, which would be foolish.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/11/2015 3:57:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Most politics is sons haggling with their fathers over their mothers. The rest is people playing The God That Should Have Been.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/11/2015 4:05:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/11/2015 3:57:18 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Most politics is sons haggling with their fathers over their mothers. The rest is people playing The God That Should Have Been.

There is politics in every form of relationship, and economy too.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/11/2015 4:08:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/11/2015 4:05:42 PM, Fido wrote:
At 1/11/2015 3:57:18 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Most politics is sons haggling with their fathers over their mothers. The rest is people playing The God That Should Have Been.

There is politics in every form of relationship, and economy too.

I know, I was just being misanthropic, lol. I know what's right, even if we're all still going to die at the end of it.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/11/2015 4:25:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/11/2015 4:08:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/11/2015 4:05:42 PM, Fido wrote:
At 1/11/2015 3:57:18 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Most politics is sons haggling with their fathers over their mothers. The rest is people playing The God That Should Have Been.

There is politics in every form of relationship, and economy too.

I know, I was just being misanthropic, lol. I know what's right, even if we're all still going to die at the end of it.

We get to die? Is that just another damned rumor? I am afraid this nonsense in interminable and if I am interminable too this is going to take forever.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/11/2015 4:35:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/11/2015 4:25:24 PM, Fido wrote:
At 1/11/2015 4:08:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/11/2015 4:05:42 PM, Fido wrote:
At 1/11/2015 3:57:18 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Most politics is sons haggling with their fathers over their mothers. The rest is people playing The God That Should Have Been.

There is politics in every form of relationship, and economy too.

I know, I was just being misanthropic, lol. I know what's right, even if we're all still going to die at the end of it.

We get to die? Is that just another damned rumor? I am afraid this nonsense in interminable and if I am interminable too this is going to take forever.

Could be, to be honest.