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Calmness

YYW
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3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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3/14/2015 9:57:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 9:56:06 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 3/14/2015 9:46:09 PM, YYW wrote:
Bump.

high?

lol I don't smoke anymore....
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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YYW
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3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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3/14/2015 11:21:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?

Because I don't retain control over myself. I can only control my rational mind, but I cannot control my emotions. Anyone who says that they have mastery over their emotions is wrong--mastery can only be achieved in degrees, not as an absolute. Control is impossible.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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YYW
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3/14/2015 11:26:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:21:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?

Because I don't retain control over myself. I can only control my rational mind, but I cannot control my emotions. Anyone who says that they have mastery over their emotions is wrong--mastery can only be achieved in degrees, not as an absolute. Control is impossible.

The way we initially feel about something is beyond our control, but, once we've had time to consider the circumstance, how we feel about something is a choice. But, it takes some longer than others to consider the circumstance.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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3/14/2015 11:28:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:26:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:21:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?

Because I don't retain control over myself. I can only control my rational mind, but I cannot control my emotions. Anyone who says that they have mastery over their emotions is wrong--mastery can only be achieved in degrees, not as an absolute. Control is impossible.

The way we initially feel about something is beyond our control, but, once we've had time to consider the circumstance, how we feel about something is a choice. But, it takes some longer than others to consider the circumstance.

I strongly disagree with that. We cannot choose to believe something, and we cannot choose to feel a certain way about something--at least on an emotional level. Rationally speaking, yes, we may be able to do those things. But our emotions are not subject to the commands of our rational minds. They are not the products of choices.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

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YYW
Posts: 36,335
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3/14/2015 11:30:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:28:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:26:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:21:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?

Because I don't retain control over myself. I can only control my rational mind, but I cannot control my emotions. Anyone who says that they have mastery over their emotions is wrong--mastery can only be achieved in degrees, not as an absolute. Control is impossible.

The way we initially feel about something is beyond our control, but, once we've had time to consider the circumstance, how we feel about something is a choice. But, it takes some longer than others to consider the circumstance.

I strongly disagree with that. We cannot choose to believe something, and we cannot choose to feel a certain way about something--at least on an emotional level. Rationally speaking, yes, we may be able to do those things. But our emotions are not subject to the commands of our rational minds. They are not the products of choices.

I can tell you that there are only a few cases where I can't control what I feel; those circumstances are rare, and most of them involve you. Otherwise, the time it takes me to consider the circumstance and chose a response, as I said, is very rarely more than a few seconds. But, I make room for the possibility that we don't all react to stimuli in the same way.
Tsar of DDO
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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3/14/2015 11:44:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:28:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I strongly disagree with that. We cannot choose to believe something, and we cannot choose to feel a certain way about something--at least on an emotional level. Rationally speaking, yes, we may be able to do those things. But our emotions are not subject to the commands of our rational minds. They are not the products of choices.

I'm kind of confused, because you first said we can control out emotions in degrees, but this one seems to imply that we can't do it at all.

I agree with your first point, that we can't control emotions fully. You can't induce a full state of euphoria by just trying to, and even if you can moderate your response to a tragic event, you can't prevent depression completely.

But your rational mind can definitely influence your emotions somewhat. If you get a mean text from a close friend, you'll feel bad. But if they sent another text 30 seconds later saying that they meant to send it to someone else, you'll feel better, and thats the rational mind telling you that the reasoning you had for feeling the emotion is wrong.

Now obviously, you'll still feel kind of bad because you still have the memory of how you felt before the clarification, and thats why you're right about control only happening in degrees. But rationality can influence emotions for sure.

Also, cognitive reappraisal is a psychology technique thats been proven to work by multiple studies, and it relies solely on re-examing how you think about a situation rationally.
bsh1
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3/14/2015 11:44:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:30:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:28:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:26:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:21:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?

Because I don't retain control over myself. I can only control my rational mind, but I cannot control my emotions. Anyone who says that they have mastery over their emotions is wrong--mastery can only be achieved in degrees, not as an absolute. Control is impossible.

The way we initially feel about something is beyond our control, but, once we've had time to consider the circumstance, how we feel about something is a choice. But, it takes some longer than others to consider the circumstance.

I strongly disagree with that. We cannot choose to believe something, and we cannot choose to feel a certain way about something--at least on an emotional level. Rationally speaking, yes, we may be able to do those things. But our emotions are not subject to the commands of our rational minds. They are not the products of choices.

I can tell you that there are only a few cases where I can't control what I feel; those circumstances are rare, and most of them involve you. Otherwise, the time it takes me to consider the circumstance and chose a response, as I said, is very rarely more than a few seconds. But, I make room for the possibility that we don't all react to stimuli in the same way.

Okay. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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3/14/2015 11:58:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:44:17 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:28:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:

I strongly disagree with that. We cannot choose to believe something, and we cannot choose to feel a certain way about something--at least on an emotional level. Rationally speaking, yes, we may be able to do those things. But our emotions are not subject to the commands of our rational minds. They are not the products of choices.

I'm kind of confused, because you first said we can control out emotions in degrees, but this one seems to imply that we can't do it at all.

I mean, they're not wholly under the control of our rational selves.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,335
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3/15/2015 12:00:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:44:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:30:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:28:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:26:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:21:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?

Because I don't retain control over myself. I can only control my rational mind, but I cannot control my emotions. Anyone who says that they have mastery over their emotions is wrong--mastery can only be achieved in degrees, not as an absolute. Control is impossible.

The way we initially feel about something is beyond our control, but, once we've had time to consider the circumstance, how we feel about something is a choice. But, it takes some longer than others to consider the circumstance.

I strongly disagree with that. We cannot choose to believe something, and we cannot choose to feel a certain way about something--at least on an emotional level. Rationally speaking, yes, we may be able to do those things. But our emotions are not subject to the commands of our rational minds. They are not the products of choices.

I can tell you that there are only a few cases where I can't control what I feel; those circumstances are rare, and most of them involve you. Otherwise, the time it takes me to consider the circumstance and chose a response, as I said, is very rarely more than a few seconds. But, I make room for the possibility that we don't all react to stimuli in the same way.

Okay. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

There was a time when I didn't think before I responded to something. It was a time when I think I interacted with the world quite a bit differently then I do now. I'm not sure you would have liked me then... I don't think I would have liked me then haha

Now, I just don't let stuff get to me. There is a definite shield between external stimuli and how I feel, and that has taken a lot of practice to build up, but I've built it up, and now there are so few things that do get to me... I've been accused of being too apathetic.

I do care very much about the people whom I care about, but the range of people I care about is very narrow, and outside that limited scope there is almost nothing that anyone could say or do to me that would change the way I feel about anything.

I know that sounds... almost inhuman... and it is... but it's indicative of a kind of mental self discipline that I've learned over the years for reasons that I don't really think I want to discuss publicly... although we could talk privately about it if you'd like. That said, how I feel about almost everything is, to me, a choice.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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3/15/2015 12:12:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 12:00:29 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:44:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:30:42 PM, YYW wrote:
I can tell you that there are only a few cases where I can't control what I feel; those circumstances are rare, and most of them involve you. Otherwise, the time it takes me to consider the circumstance and chose a response, as I said, is very rarely more than a few seconds. But, I make room for the possibility that we don't all react to stimuli in the same way.

Okay. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

There was a time when I didn't think before I responded to something. It was a time when I think I interacted with the world quite a bit differently then I do now. I'm not sure you would have liked me then... I don't think I would have liked me then haha

I am not so sure that's right, but if it is, then fate has an amazing sense of timing :)

I know that sounds... almost inhuman... and it is... but it's indicative of a kind of mental self discipline that I've learned over the years for reasons that I don't really think I want to discuss publicly... although we could talk privately about it if you'd like. That said, how I feel about almost everything is, to me, a choice.

Okay.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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mrsatan
Posts: 429
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3/15/2015 12:21:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:28:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:26:11 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:21:44 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:18:24 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I disagree that it is a choice. I don't think one can choose--at least in all circumstances--to be calm or to avoid stress.

Why not?

Because I don't retain control over myself. I can only control my rational mind, but I cannot control my emotions. Anyone who says that they have mastery over their emotions is wrong--mastery can only be achieved in degrees, not as an absolute. Control is impossible.

The way we initially feel about something is beyond our control, but, once we've had time to consider the circumstance, how we feel about something is a choice. But, it takes some longer than others to consider the circumstance.

I strongly disagree with that. We cannot choose to believe something, and we cannot choose to feel a certain way about something--at least on an emotional level. Rationally speaking, yes, we may be able to do those things. But our emotions are not subject to the commands of our rational minds. They are not the products of choices.

I agree that emotions are not the product of choices. I think a byproduct of experience would be an apt categorization. I would also agree that complete control of ones emotions is likely an unattainable goal. Perhaps even complete control over a single emotion. However, one can have a great deal of control over their emotions. It's quite challenging, to be sure, to control even a single emotion to a notable degree, and I would imagine the difficulty increases exponentially for multiple emotions.

Myself, for example. I can't speak for controlling multiple emotions, as there's only one I want to control. Anger. I used to be angry constantly. It would come and go, but most of the time I was angry over, quite literally, nothing. I hated it. I didn't want to be angry anymore, so I learned to control it. Eventually, I reached a point where I just stopped. I didn't want to be angry anymore, and I no longer was.

I'm not sure control is the right word for it, though. It's more like committing the quelling of an emotion to instinct. Preventing the emotion from being produced on a primal level. Although, as I said earlier, I don't know of it's possible to have complete "control". I have been angry on three separate occasions in the past ~9 years, and I remember these occasions quite clearly. Each time it was because I felt betrayed by someone I had a great deal of trust for.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
Otokage
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3/15/2015 5:25:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

As some people have already said, I don't think we can be calm in every situation, I don't even think I could go a whole day without being disrupted for a second. I believe this is because our conscience can not control our subconscious, and I think this domain of the unconscious over consciousness is key to our survival, as subconscious responses are the result of millions of years of evolution, but the responses of consciousness, in my case, are only the fruit of 26 years of experiences.

However, now that you mention nirvana, I believe experienced buddhists are capable of a pretty strong self-deception in which they are able to pretend they are unaffected by the unconscious. Despite being a fake, this seems like a very difficult state to achieve and I can see why it has so many great advantages for those who reache it. So, yeah, my advice for buddhists: master your self-deception, because if you convince yourself that something is not affecting you, then it is virtualy not affecting you.
Maikuru
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3/15/2015 6:19:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
A few years ago, I drove home from my best friend's funeral with her brother and we stopped in a cafe. As we were paying, a man came up to us and told us "Happiness is a choice." The message did not resonate. While happiness may be a choice, that choice is not always available.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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YYW
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3/15/2015 7:06:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 6:19:13 AM, Maikuru wrote:
A few years ago, I drove home from my best friend's funeral with her brother and we stopped in a cafe. As we were paying, a man came up to us and told us "Happiness is a choice." The message did not resonate. While happiness may be a choice, that choice is not always available.

I think there are some circumstances that people couldn't chose to feel anything other than how they feel... like the loss of a family member or friend, or something like that, but most every-day situations don't really elicit the kind of response that the loss of a family member or friend would.
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Defro
Posts: 847
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3/22/2015 10:48:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 6:19:13 AM, Maikuru wrote:
A few years ago, I drove home from my best friend's funeral with her brother and we stopped in a cafe. As we were paying, a man came up to us and told us "Happiness is a choice." The message did not resonate. While happiness may be a choice, that choice is not always available.

Happiness may not always be a choice but choice may always be a happiness.
Defro
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3/22/2015 10:49:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 6:19:13 AM, Maikuru wrote:
A few years ago, I drove home from my best friend's funeral with her brother and we stopped in a cafe. As we were paying, a man came up to us and told us "Happiness is a choice." The message did not resonate. While happiness may be a choice, that choice is not always available.

Happiness may not always be a choice but choice may always be a happiness
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/23/2015 7:44:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I agree. I meditate at least twice a week to think about problems at hand. In fact I'm having a bit of a crisis now. Lets call it early senioritis. I'm still at battle of stress an control, but overall I'm able to keep a straight face and keep calm.

On a side note, i would like to talk sometime in a pm, in hopes for us to gain a better understanding of our "situation" and eventually put it all past us.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
YYW
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3/23/2015 8:20:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 7:44:30 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

I agree. I meditate at least twice a week to think about problems at hand. In fact I'm having a bit of a crisis now. Lets call it early senioritis. I'm still at battle of stress an control, but overall I'm able to keep a straight face and keep calm.

On a side note, i would like to talk sometime in a pm, in hopes for us to gain a better understanding of our "situation" and eventually put it all past us.

I'll take it under consideration.
Tsar of DDO
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/23/2015 6:52:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/11/2015 9:06:17 PM, YYW wrote:
Serenity is the state of being calm, peaceful and untroubled. It is a sensation that is probably as close to nirvana as is possible for anyone on this earth. It is also a choice, as while the world may throw many challenges at us we retain over ourselves in response to those challenges.

Whatever you say, Eckhart Tolle.
Lee001
Posts: 3,168
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3/23/2015 11:52:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've never tried meditating, I'm never still enough to try it...
But tea is a good "calmer" :)
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GlimmerOfHope24
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3/24/2015 10:43:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I find a walk in the countryside, or a moment sitting in a quiet conservatory on a summers day the most calming way.

To simply get out of the house and away from life is calming in itself!