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The Lights Grow Dim

xXCryptoXx
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3/31/2015 10:33:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is something worse than genocide, social injustice, the strong overpowering the weak, terrorism, war... we see these things. We have an immediate reaction, usually evoking passion to take one side or the other. Usually the decision is easy, "of course I oppose genocide and I must use everything in my power to put an end to it." These things, although absolutely awful, unite human beings in a cause, usually against evil. Those who do not oppose what is evil usually are committing the atrocious acts at hand. At the very least we are aware. We see. And with what we have seen, we act. There is something more destructive than what I listed above. It is something that pervades into the mind of humanity and we don't even realize it. It has many names: nihilism, materialism, apathy, minimalism...

- "There is no good and evil, only social opinion." Such a harmless idea, yet so incredibly destructive in its implications. It can be used to justify the very atrocities I listed above. This idea is what leads to the heinous violation of human rights (which according to the same idea, do not actually exist) and had led the young astray as they look for meaning in life. How are we supposed to raise a generation that can take care of themselves and each other when they are left with moral compasses that know not North from South or East from West?

- "There is no objective happiness, happiness is what you make it." Almost inspiring at first glance, but this idea has led the young in the dark when they are surrounded by a selfish and materialistic society. They are expected to find happiness in what is temporal and fleeting. Our hearts long for so much more. This idea teaches the young to pursue pleasure, not happiness. They don't know what happiness is because they were told that it is what you make it to be. But happiness cannot be found in food, or video games, or porn, it is found in love of your neighbor, yourself, hard work, and love of the Creator.
- Capitalism has led us astray. I support capitalism, but it must be aided by human love and compassion. A capitalistic society without love and compassion leads humans into the lie that you can quitr literally, buy happiness. You can't. We are wealthy in materialistic goods, but so incredibly poor in spirit. We need love and compassion, but we are so distracted by giant flashihg signs promising us happiness that we don't realize how much love we lack in our lives.

- "I don't want to be judgemental. As long as it doesn't affect me others can do whatever they want." There is a fine line between acceptance and love. Society has told us that they are one in the same but they are not. True love for your neighbor means not letting them be led astray by evil. It means speaking up and helping them to improve themselves. When you witness evil do not be silent out of fear or being judgemental or bigoted.

- "Now what is the least amount of studying I can do to still get an A on this test?" This is minimalism at its finest. Quite possibly a product of our capitalistic society, minimalism had taught us to do the bare minimum. Work hard for the sake of working hard. It is a virtue. Hard work in of itself helps us to become better human beings.

I have only skimmed the ideas that pervade our minds. These ideas deprive us of love and happiness. The worst part is though, so many people don't even realize these ideas pervade our minds. The lights grow so subtly dimmer with time, and we don't even realize what is happening until we stand in complete darkness. Do not be sheep being led astray by a wolf dressed as a sheperd. This is a warning to all of you; we need to change or else the world will face dire consequences.

The reason I posted this in the Personal forum is because I wanted to bring this to a personal level. I am not looking for a debate over the things I listed, I am telling all of you as people I care about to not fall prey to these destructive ideas.

*sorry for any typos, I typed this on my phone.
Nolite Timere
thett3
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3/31/2015 10:44:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think you may enjoy this article. It's one of the most thought provoking things I've ever read. The author explains how even though the West is fabulously wealthy, we've lost much of the intangible benefits of life. We experience a "poverty of the soul" in a large part due to the ideas you bring up here: http://www.city-journal.org...

To me, all this subjectivism is inevitable in a society like ours...there's been a lot of ink spilled over the decline of the social structure and community in this country, because it's a serious issue. We've collectively lost our moral grounding and I don't really have much hope at all that we can get it back.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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3/31/2015 10:44:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think you may enjoy this article. It's one of the most thought provoking things I've ever read. The author explains how even though the West is fabulously wealthy, we've lost much of the intangible benefits of life. We experience a "poverty of the soul" in a large part due to the ideas you bring up here: http://www.city-journal.org...

To me, all this subjectivism is inevitable in a society like ours...there's been a lot of ink spilled over the decline of the social structure and community in this country, because it's a serious issue. We've collectively lost our moral grounding and I don't really have much hope at all that we can get it back.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
thett3
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3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/31/2015 11:13:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about humanity. Also, subjectivism and nihilism are not necessarily bad things.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:15:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:13:03 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about humanity. Also, subjectivism and nihilism are not necessarily bad things.

Well, I can't speak for the world because I don't have nearly as big a grasp of it's social history as I do of the west in general. As for subjectivism and nihilism, maybe they aren't bad to you, but they're bad to me. They're bad to Crypto. And, I would argue, they're horribly bad for society.

It's a moot point anyway, though. The die is cast and people like me lost decades before I was even born. Idk, it's hard to really articulate but I can tell from what he's written here that Crypto sees the same thing I do
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.
Maikuru
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3/31/2015 11:19:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:15:41 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:13:03 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about humanity. Also, subjectivism and nihilism are not necessarily bad things.

Well, I can't speak for the world because I don't have nearly as big a grasp of it's social history as I do of the west in general. As for subjectivism and nihilism, maybe they aren't bad to you, but they're bad to me. They're bad to Crypto. And, I would argue, they're horribly bad for society.

It's a moot point anyway, though. The die is cast and people like me lost decades before I was even born. Idk, it's hard to really articulate but I can tell from what he's written here that Crypto sees the same thing I do

If it helps, social systems, like history, are often cyclical.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
thett3
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3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:23:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:19:22 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:15:41 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:13:03 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

I'm not talking about the US, I'm talking about humanity. Also, subjectivism and nihilism are not necessarily bad things.

Well, I can't speak for the world because I don't have nearly as big a grasp of it's social history as I do of the west in general. As for subjectivism and nihilism, maybe they aren't bad to you, but they're bad to me. They're bad to Crypto. And, I would argue, they're horribly bad for society.

It's a moot point anyway, though. The die is cast and people like me lost decades before I was even born. Idk, it's hard to really articulate but I can tell from what he's written here that Crypto sees the same thing I do

If it helps, social systems, like history, are often cyclical.

I suppose that is true, but the way I see it is that yes things are cyclical, but it's more like a two steps forward, one step back kind of thing.

For what it's worth, I don't think society is horrible or anything now, but I do think these things Crypto brings up are serious concerns but I also don't see any solution
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes. After all, moral relativism is the truth. We simply base society around shared morality.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?
thett3
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3/31/2015 11:32:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

You're wrong, dude.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

It doesn't matter if the shared morals are objectively true...it's my view and, I believe, Crypto's that widespread belief in moral relativism is bad for society. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. And the last sentence makes no sense. If there are no objective rights, we do no wrong by forcing people into our point of view because no rights exist to be violated.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:33:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:32:08 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

You're wrong, dude.

No u

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

It doesn't matter if the shared morals are objectively true...it's my view and, I believe, Crypto's that widespread belief in moral relativism is bad for society. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. And the last sentence makes no sense. If there are no objective rights, we do no wrong by forcing people into our point of view because no rights exist to be violated.

So...allowing people the freedom to make their own judgments of right and wrong is bad for society.
Debate time?
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:37:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:33:44 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:32:08 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

You're wrong, dude.

No u

You need Jesus, son.


We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

It doesn't matter if the shared morals are objectively true...it's my view and, I believe, Crypto's that widespread belief in moral relativism is bad for society. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. And the last sentence makes no sense. If there are no objective rights, we do no wrong by forcing people into our point of view because no rights exist to be violated.

So...allowing people the freedom to make their own judgments of right and wrong is bad for society.
Debate time?

But I don't think *allowing* people to think differently is bad. I think it's bad when the vast majority of society has no shared moral compass. I wouldn't even term such a group a "society" really, but that's a very semantical arguments.

Here's the thing, Endark: I'm not giving any policy prescription. I think these trends are irreversible. All I'm doing is lamenting the fact that even though I'm only 20, society has already left me behind. Your side has already won...let me have this :P
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:38:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:37:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:33:44 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:32:08 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

You're wrong, dude.

No u

You need Jesus, son.

Do I need him inside me?


We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

It doesn't matter if the shared morals are objectively true...it's my view and, I believe, Crypto's that widespread belief in moral relativism is bad for society. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. And the last sentence makes no sense. If there are no objective rights, we do no wrong by forcing people into our point of view because no rights exist to be violated.

So...allowing people the freedom to make their own judgments of right and wrong is bad for society.
Debate time?

But I don't think *allowing* people to think differently is bad. I think it's bad when the vast majority of society has no shared moral compass. I wouldn't even term such a group a "society" really, but that's a very semantical arguments.

Here's the thing, Endark: I'm not giving any policy prescription. I think these trends are irreversible. All I'm doing is lamenting the fact that even though I'm only 20, society has already left me behind. Your side has already won...let me have this :P

Okay. Fine.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:40:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:38:27 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:37:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:33:44 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:32:08 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

You're wrong, dude.

No u

You need Jesus, son.

Do I need him inside me?

Inside your heart, man



We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

It doesn't matter if the shared morals are objectively true...it's my view and, I believe, Crypto's that widespread belief in moral relativism is bad for society. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. And the last sentence makes no sense. If there are no objective rights, we do no wrong by forcing people into our point of view because no rights exist to be violated.

So...allowing people the freedom to make their own judgments of right and wrong is bad for society.
Debate time?

But I don't think *allowing* people to think differently is bad. I think it's bad when the vast majority of society has no shared moral compass. I wouldn't even term such a group a "society" really, but that's a very semantical arguments.

Here's the thing, Endark: I'm not giving any policy prescription. I think these trends are irreversible. All I'm doing is lamenting the fact that even though I'm only 20, society has already left me behind. Your side has already won...let me have this :P

Okay. Fine.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Genghis_Khan
Posts: 480
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3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.
anything your heart desires
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:41:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:40:20 PM, thett3 wrote:
That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

You're wrong, dude.

No u

You need Jesus, son.

Do I need him inside me?

Inside your heart, man

But I'd rather have you. <3



We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

It doesn't matter if the shared morals are objectively true...it's my view and, I believe, Crypto's that widespread belief in moral relativism is bad for society. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. And the last sentence makes no sense. If there are no objective rights, we do no wrong by forcing people into our point of view because no rights exist to be violated.

So...allowing people the freedom to make their own judgments of right and wrong is bad for society.
Debate time?

But I don't think *allowing* people to think differently is bad. I think it's bad when the vast majority of society has no shared moral compass. I wouldn't even term such a group a "society" really, but that's a very semantical arguments.

Here's the thing, Endark: I'm not giving any policy prescription. I think these trends are irreversible. All I'm doing is lamenting the fact that even though I'm only 20, society has already left me behind. Your side has already won...let me have this :P

Okay. Fine.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:49:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.

This is of course true. But honestly I feel like the whole objective vs. subjective morality debate is really dumb. It's something that we'll never, ever be able to determine and it just reeks of semantics. "These values are objective because God says so." "Isn't that just Gods subjective opinion?" It's a philosophical toy, at best.

But here's what *is* objective: We have moral intuitions. Maybe they come from God. Maybe they come from evolution. Maybe they come from society. Maybe they come from the super secret objective moral axioms that exist as abstract objects.

I guess I have a weird view on this...I actually kind of agree with relativism to an extent. For example, I think it's grossly unfair to judge historical figures by modern standards and I think that other societies can have values that work for them just as their religions do (oh, I'm also kind of a pluralist) to *some* extent. Some values are probably objective. But I believe very strongly that there is one objective thing, and that's doing right. If our conscience tell us that something is wrong, we ought not do it.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:52:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.

That's what the Nazis said about the Jews, what Stalin said about the West. Who decides what's right? The strongest? That's against the West's very moral code.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:52:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:49:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.

This is of course true. But honestly I feel like the whole objective vs. subjective morality debate is really dumb. It's something that we'll never, ever be able to determine and it just reeks of semantics. "These values are objective because God says so." "Isn't that just Gods subjective opinion?" It's a philosophical toy, at best.

But here's what *is* objective: We have moral intuitions. Maybe they come from God. Maybe they come from evolution. Maybe they come from society. Maybe they come from the super secret objective moral axioms that exist as abstract objects.

I guess I have a weird view on this...I actually kind of agree with relativism to an extent. For example, I think it's grossly unfair to judge historical figures by modern standards and I think that other societies can have values that work for them just as their religions do (oh, I'm also kind of a pluralist) to *some* extent. Some values are probably objective. But I believe very strongly that there is one objective thing, and that's doing right. If our conscience tell us that something is wrong, we ought not do it.

YOU NEVER RETURN MY LOVE
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:53:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:52:28 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:49:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.

This is of course true. But honestly I feel like the whole objective vs. subjective morality debate is really dumb. It's something that we'll never, ever be able to determine and it just reeks of semantics. "These values are objective because God says so." "Isn't that just Gods subjective opinion?" It's a philosophical toy, at best.

But here's what *is* objective: We have moral intuitions. Maybe they come from God. Maybe they come from evolution. Maybe they come from society. Maybe they come from the super secret objective moral axioms that exist as abstract objects.

I guess I have a weird view on this...I actually kind of agree with relativism to an extent. For example, I think it's grossly unfair to judge historical figures by modern standards and I think that other societies can have values that work for them just as their religions do (oh, I'm also kind of a pluralist) to *some* extent. Some values are probably objective. But I believe very strongly that there is one objective thing, and that's doing right. If our conscience tell us that something is wrong, we ought not do it.

YOU NEVER RETURN MY LOVE

Rest easy. My love is just so strong that I can't articulate it, that's all
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/31/2015 11:54:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:53:35 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:52:28 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:49:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.

This is of course true. But honestly I feel like the whole objective vs. subjective morality debate is really dumb. It's something that we'll never, ever be able to determine and it just reeks of semantics. "These values are objective because God says so." "Isn't that just Gods subjective opinion?" It's a philosophical toy, at best.

But here's what *is* objective: We have moral intuitions. Maybe they come from God. Maybe they come from evolution. Maybe they come from society. Maybe they come from the super secret objective moral axioms that exist as abstract objects.

I guess I have a weird view on this...I actually kind of agree with relativism to an extent. For example, I think it's grossly unfair to judge historical figures by modern standards and I think that other societies can have values that work for them just as their religions do (oh, I'm also kind of a pluralist) to *some* extent. Some values are probably objective. But I believe very strongly that there is one objective thing, and that's doing right. If our conscience tell us that something is wrong, we ought not do it.

YOU NEVER RETURN MY LOVE

Rest easy. My love is just so strong that I can't articulate it, that's all

<3
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2015 11:59:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:49:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.

This is of course true. But honestly I feel like the whole objective vs. subjective morality debate is really dumb. It's something that we'll never, ever be able to determine and it just reeks of semantics. "These values are objective because God says so." "Isn't that just Gods subjective opinion?" It's a philosophical toy, at best.

But here's what *is* objective: We have moral intuitions. Maybe they come from God. Maybe they come from evolution. Maybe they come from society. Maybe they come from the super secret objective moral axioms that exist as abstract objects.

I guess I have a weird view on this...I actually kind of agree with relativism to an extent. For example, I think it's grossly unfair to judge historical figures by modern standards and I think that other societies can have values that work for them just as their religions do (oh, I'm also kind of a pluralist) to *some* extent. Some values are probably objective. But I believe very strongly that there is one objective thing, and that's doing right. If our conscience tell us that something is wrong, we ought not do it.

To further on this, if there is a God and He is testing us by throwing moral challenges our way, I think the challenge is to live a good life under the parameters that have been given to you. In fact, the very existence of so many competing and fundamentally reasonable sounding moral systems makes it all the more difficult to hold on to the one you have--moral relativism can so easily be used as a crutch to do evil. After all, maybe I *feel* that stealing is evil but it isn't *actually* evil. That's the road to Hell. Your morals are objective to you. Period. It doesn't matter if they're objective on some weird cosmic scale that doesn't affect us in any way.

It's like a game, given different circumstances there are different ways to win. But there is also some objective structure to the whole thing.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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4/1/2015 12:01:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 11:59:01 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:49:22 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:40:58 PM, Genghis_Khan wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:29:12 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:27:33 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:25:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:24:16 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:21:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:19:50 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:17:52 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/31/2015 11:06:36 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 3/31/2015 10:58:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree that love, charity, social service, and positivity are powerful and necessary for our progress. I don't think many would argue with the OP's general sentiment.

I would also state that these factors are likely currently at their peak of any time in our history and there has never been a better or more hopeful time to be alive.

That's simply not true. There's almost limitless evidence that the social structure of the US has severely declined. There's never been a time where man has been more socially isolated than today. That doesn't mean life is worse now, but there are certainly good things left behind, and their decline contributes to the subjectivism and nihilism Crypto criticizes that's seeped into every single aspect of our culture.

Bowling Alone =\= Moral Relativism. Both are truths, nothing more.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but the decline of the community absolutely does contribute to moral relativism

You haven't read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone? It's all about America's declining social capital.

No, I know about that. I didn't know if what you meant to say was the decline in social capital doesn't contribute to moral relativism, because it absolutely does

I said they're not the same thing. I suppose it contributes, more so than causes.

They both contribute to each other, I'm sure.

After all, moral relativism is the truth.

No, it isn't

Well, we clearly disagree there.

We simply base society around shared morality.

Exactly--and when you destroy the social fabric obviously the belief in immutable principles is going to go down.

Shared morality =\= objective morality. There are no objective morals because there is always dissent about right versus wrong. Not everyone believes murder or theft are wrong, and what right have we to force them to accept our beliefs?

Just because there are people who disagree with universal moral truths doesn't mean those truths aren't objective. It just means that the dissenters are misguided/stupid.

This is of course true. But honestly I feel like the whole objective vs. subjective morality debate is really dumb. It's something that we'll never, ever be able to determine and it just reeks of semantics. "These values are objective because God says so." "Isn't that just Gods subjective opinion?" It's a philosophical toy, at best.

But here's what *is* objective: We have moral intuitions. Maybe they come from God. Maybe they come from evolution. Maybe they come from society. Maybe they come from the super secret objective moral axioms that exist as abstract objects.

I guess I have a weird view on this...I actually kind of agree with relativism to an extent. For example, I think it's grossly unfair to judge historical figures by modern standards and I think that other societies can have values that work for them just as their religions do (oh, I'm also kind of a pluralist) to *some* extent. Some values are probably objective. But I believe very strongly that there is one objective thing, and that's doing right. If our conscience tell us that something is wrong, we ought not do it.

To further on this, if there is a God and He is testing us by throwing moral challenges our way, I think the challenge is to live a good life under the parameters that have been given to you. In fact, the very existence of so many competing and fundamentally reasonable sounding moral systems makes it all the more difficult to hold on to the one you have--moral relativism can so easily be used as a crutch to do evil. After all, maybe I *feel* that stealing is evil but it isn't *actually* evil. That's the road to Hell. Your morals are objective to you. Period. It doesn't matter if they're objective on some weird cosmic scale that doesn't affect us in any way.

It's like a game, given different circumstances there are different ways to win. But there is also some objective structure to the whole thing.

That's...really interesting, actually.