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A letter to those who are suicidal

Truth_seeker
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4/1/2015 11:03:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I felt the need to address a common problem in the world that struck this community as well. If i didn't experience it myself, i would not be writing this but i did. With my experiences, i come to share with you to help you. I lost a few people to suicide and know the pain that comes with it, it's not worth it. I won't tell you to seek professional help, i just want you to listen and the rest is your choice. I've felt suicidal plenty of times before for various reasons (break-up, depression, unresolved conflict, loneliness, etc.) You name it. I broke down and planned a few because life was a living hell. Nevertheless i realized there was 1 thing i never lost...my friends...family...and hope. It seemed hopeless until i saw that they never gave up on me...and i felt their pain...the pain of wanting to help someone but you can't...which made me get back up because the world needs me...Your not the only one suffering! There's people who are in the same place your in who desperately need a friend to comfort them! People who are lonely! Who need help! Are you going to just leave them to die?!? There's people out there who need your love and you want to die because you see no reason to live?!? Your going to leave this world with more suffering?!?!? Before i could kill myself, I knew i could make a difference in 1 person's life and i rushed out to help them without thinking about myself! Life is worth more than the girls you lost..than the parents you never had..than the pain your going through..What brought me back was not that i dealt with the pain...but that i never gave up on myself or on those who need me the most. I just want you to think about this and PM me.

Sincerely,

Truth_Seeker

I thank EsocialBookWorm, Lannan13, and others for inspiring me.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/2/2015 8:18:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Suicidal attempts are incited by fear of life (and its problems). Thus the originator is cowardliness. Suicide as an act of Bravery_ is near impossible to get universal acceptance, thus the anatomy is not valid. And if it's bravery in "your opinion", please accept my catharsis :)
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/2/2015 8:42:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:18:18 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Suicidal attempts are incited by fear of life (and its problems). Thus the originator is cowardliness. Suicide as an act of Bravery_ is near impossible to get universal acceptance, thus the anatomy is not valid. And if it's bravery in "your opinion", please accept my catharsis :)

I'm not gay. Keep your catharsis in your pants.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/2/2015 8:49:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:42:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:18:18 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Suicidal attempts are incited by fear of life (and its problems). Thus the originator is cowardliness. Suicide as an act of Bravery_ is near impossible to get universal acceptance, thus the anatomy is not valid. And if it's bravery in "your opinion", please accept my catharsis :)

I'm not gay. Keep your catharsis in your pants.

Is the OP about gays? I haven't noticed that anyways. And by the way, I was expecting that much hallow reply, against my strong reasoning :P How coincidental!
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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4/2/2015 8:53:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:42:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:18:18 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Suicidal attempts are incited by fear of life (and its problems). Thus the originator is cowardliness. Suicide as an act of Bravery_ is near impossible to get universal acceptance, thus the anatomy is not valid. And if it's bravery in "your opinion", please accept my catharsis :)

I'm not gay. Keep your catharsis in your pants.

homophobe
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/2/2015 8:54:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Anyways, all the best, all.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/2/2015 9:02:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:49:28 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:42:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:18:18 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Suicidal attempts are incited by fear of life (and its problems). Thus the originator is cowardliness. Suicide as an act of Bravery_ is near impossible to get universal acceptance, thus the anatomy is not valid. And if it's bravery in "your opinion", please accept my catharsis :)

I'm not gay. Keep your catharsis in your pants.

Is the OP about gays? I haven't noticed that anyways. And by the way, I was expecting that much hallow reply, against my strong reasoning :P How coincidental!

Honestly I just don't have time for it. Often times people commit suicide because of mental health issues. It may be a sign of weakness in some of those circumstances, but it probably isn't accurate to call it cowardice. I have seen instances where it is cowardice, such as people doing it after being caught in a major crime and fearing prison.

However, It isn't necessarily cowardly to kill yourself.

I could kill myself tomorrow. It is no big deal. I'm not sure how me making the decision to kill myself would imply cowardice, it may just imply that I don't value my life much and I think there is also no point in moving on. It should be noted that thinking there is no point in going on is different than killing yourself because you can't go on. One is the result of emotion, the other a result of cold hard logic.

I honestly envy people with the courage to end their lives a lot of times. I don't envy the mentally ill, but if somebody like Robin Williams does it, because he made a rational decision that his best years are behind him and no major accomplishments lay ahead, than I see no reason to villianize his actions.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/2/2015 1:15:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 9:02:53 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:49:28 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:42:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:18:18 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Suicidal attempts are incited by fear of life (and its problems). Thus the originator is cowardliness. Suicide as an act of Bravery_ is near impossible to get universal acceptance, thus the anatomy is not valid. And if it's bravery in "your opinion", please accept my catharsis :)

I'm not gay. Keep your catharsis in your pants.

Is the OP about gays? I haven't noticed that anyways. And by the way, I was expecting that much hallow reply, against my strong reasoning :P How coincidental!

Honestly I just don't have time for it. Often times people commit suicide because of mental health issues. It may be a sign of weakness in some of those circumstances, but it probably isn't accurate to call it cowardice. I have seen instances where it is cowardice, such as people doing it after being caught in a major crime and fearing prison.

However, It isn't necessarily cowardly to kill yourself.

I could kill myself tomorrow. It is no big deal. I'm not sure how me making the decision to kill myself would imply cowardice, it may just imply that I don't value my life much and I think there is also no point in moving on. It should be noted that thinking there is no point in going on is different than killing yourself because you can't go on. One is the result of emotion, the other a result of cold hard logic.

I honestly envy people with the courage to end their lives a lot of times. I don't envy the mentally ill, but if somebody like Robin Williams does it, because he made a rational decision that his best years are behind him and no major accomplishments lay ahead, than I see no reason to villianize his actions.

I see nothing to argue over because there are always two views; one is wrong, other is right. Despite, you see the agreement rarely.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/2/2015 1:16:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:15:07 PM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 9:02:53 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:49:28 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:42:30 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:18:18 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:08:07 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:06:57 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

No no no, it's not disease, it's about cowardliness. And what a lame justification; to exploit the non-concern of others. Lol

Most people are afraid of death. It seems like a brave decision to me.
Suicidal attempts are incited by fear of life (and its problems). Thus the originator is cowardliness. Suicide as an act of Bravery_ is near impossible to get universal acceptance, thus the anatomy is not valid. And if it's bravery in "your opinion", please accept my catharsis :)

I'm not gay. Keep your catharsis in your pants.

Is the OP about gays? I haven't noticed that anyways. And by the way, I was expecting that much hallow reply, against my strong reasoning :P How coincidental!

Honestly I just don't have time for it. Often times people commit suicide because of mental health issues. It may be a sign of weakness in some of those circumstances, but it probably isn't accurate to call it cowardice. I have seen instances where it is cowardice, such as people doing it after being caught in a major crime and fearing prison.

However, It isn't necessarily cowardly to kill yourself.

I could kill myself tomorrow. It is no big deal. I'm not sure how me making the decision to kill myself would imply cowardice, it may just imply that I don't value my life much and I think there is also no point in moving on. It should be noted that thinking there is no point in going on is different than killing yourself because you can't go on. One is the result of emotion, the other a result of cold hard logic.

I honestly envy people with the courage to end their lives a lot of times. I don't envy the mentally ill, but if somebody like Robin Williams does it, because he made a rational decision that his best years are behind him and no major accomplishments lay ahead, than I see no reason to villianize his actions.

I see nothing to argue over because there are always two views; one is wrong, other is right. Despite, you see the agreement rarely.

Both can be wrong or both can be right as long as they aren't contradictory.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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4/3/2015 3:27:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

Don't you have a daughter? Because I think your perspective is only possible if you're free of responsibility.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/3/2015 5:47:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 3:27:48 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

Don't you have a daughter? Because I think your perspective is only possible if you're free of responsibility.

If you have to look after somebody it is a dik move to kill yourself
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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4/3/2015 6:49:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

http://www.axgig.com...
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/3/2015 6:51:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 6:49:20 AM, SamStevens wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

http://www.axgig.com...

Lol
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/3/2015 7:36:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 1:16:34 PM, Wylted wrote:


I see nothing to argue over because there are always two views; one is wrong, other is right. Despite, you see the agreement rarely.

Both can be wrong or both can be right as long as they aren't contradictory.

As long as two views aren't contradictory, they're no longer considered as two (separate/contradictory) views.
(At least in the prescribed context)

Basically the unit of analysis is the counter-party, two counter parties can summon upon a wrong view (or both parties can agree on a right/rational-view that is actually required). But however, wrong view can't dominate the right one, (when we talk about agreement) as long as truth prevails.

Hence, sometimes you decide between right and wrong but sometimes you decide between two options which is "right" in itself.
1. killing yourself = right?
or
2. Not killing yourself = right?

1&2 are contradictory. Only one can be right (in whatever sense).

Thus decision is not based upon questioning good/bad things associated with "killing", but to logically proceeds towards right doings.

Above all, what the killing gives? Sense of bravery? Relief? And whatever more.
The equation is:
Relief/(Bravery sense)/x(whatever reason/logic)*killing(0)=Death =0/ no sense of outcome (as the man is no more, to get anything of this life)

At least no outcome to the principal (self) killer. Though may be a chunk of people would remember the dead, as a brave man (I believe, idiotically). But would not like to follow their mentor. If this is what self killer want to get of his life that people should consider him brave enough that he killed himself, then I would say, killing yourself can't be analogous to bravery. Otherwise, all the living persons should be considered as coward. But this idea proposes that all brave men should kill themselves and all coward must live. This way, who would left on earth would be an intelligent one only (though temporarily/ hypothetically labeled as coward). And we'll lost all the idiots, though brave enough to die. But you still see the idiots around.

Hoping the rationality to prevail.
Regards.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/3/2015 7:46:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 7:36:05 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:16:34 PM, Wylted wrote:


I see nothing to argue over because there are always two views; one is wrong, other is right. Despite, you see the agreement rarely.

Both can be wrong or both can be right as long as they aren't contradictory.

As long as two views aren't contradictory, they're no longer considered as two (separate/contradictory) views.
(At least in the prescribed context)

Basically the unit of analysis is the counter-party, two counter parties can summon upon a wrong view (or both parties can agree on a right/rational-view that is actually required). But however, wrong view can't dominate the right one, (when we talk about agreement) as long as truth prevails.

Hence, sometimes you decide between right and wrong but sometimes you decide between two options which is "right" in itself.
1. killing yourself = right?
or
2. Not killing yourself = right?

1&2 are contradictory. Only one can be right (in whatever sense).

Thus decision is not based upon questioning good/bad things associated with "killing", but to logically proceeds towards right doings.

Above all, what the killing gives? Sense of bravery? Relief? And whatever more.
The equation is:
Relief/(Bravery sense)/x(whatever reason/logic)*killing(0)=Death =0/ no sense of outcome (as the man is no more, to get anything of this life)

At least no outcome to the principal (self) killer. Though may be a chunk of people would remember the dead, as a brave man (I believe, idiotically). But would not like to follow their mentor. If this is what self killer want to get of his life that people should consider him brave enough that he killed himself, then I would say, killing yourself can't be analogous to bravery. Otherwise, all the living persons should be considered as coward. But this idea proposes that all brave men should kill themselves and all coward must live. This way, who would left on earth would be an intelligent one only (though temporarily/ hypothetically labeled as coward). And we'll lost all the idiots, though brave enough to die. But you still see the idiots around.

Hoping the rationality to prevail.
Regards.

That is just black and white thinking on multiple levels. You assume that all suicides have the same motives, when in fact some people will jump on a bomb to save several people, some may be in a prolonged state of suffering due to terminal illness and are merely cutting their suffering short while also alleviating their family from a lot of unneccesary medical expenses, and yet others may kill themselves because they have accomplished all they are going to with their life and are now just waiting for death.

So both contradictory views you present are wrong. It is not a choice between all killing being bad and all killing being good, because their are instances were killing is justifiable, and instances where it would be unethical to refrain from killing.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/3/2015 9:33:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 7:46:56 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/3/2015 7:36:05 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:16:34 PM, Wylted wrote:


I see nothing to argue over because there are always two views; one is wrong, other is right. Despite, you see the agreement rarely.

Both can be wrong or both can be right as long as they aren't contradictory.

As long as two views aren't contradictory, they're no longer considered as two (separate/contradictory) views.
(At least in the prescribed context)

Basically the unit of analysis is the counter-party, two counter parties can summon upon a wrong view (or both parties can agree on a right/rational-view that is actually required). But however, wrong view can't dominate the right one, (when we talk about agreement) as long as truth prevails.

Hence, sometimes you decide between right and wrong but sometimes you decide between two options which is "right" in itself.
1. killing yourself = right?
or
2. Not killing yourself = right?

1&2 are contradictory. Only one can be right (in whatever sense).

Thus decision is not based upon questioning good/bad things associated with "killing", but to logically proceeds towards right doings.

Above all, what the killing gives? Sense of bravery? Relief? And whatever more.
The equation is:
Relief/(Bravery sense)/x(whatever reason/logic)*killing(0)=Death =0/ no sense of outcome (as the man is no more, to get anything of this life)

At least no outcome to the principal (self) killer. Though may be a chunk of people would remember the dead, as a brave man (I believe, idiotically). But would not like to follow their mentor. If this is what self killer want to get of his life that people should consider him brave enough that he killed himself, then I would say, killing yourself can't be analogous to bravery. Otherwise, all the living persons should be considered as coward. But this idea proposes that all brave men should kill themselves and all coward must live. This way, who would left on earth would be an intelligent one only (though temporarily/ hypothetically labeled as coward). And we'll lost all the idiots, though brave enough to die. But you still see the idiots around.

Hoping the rationality to prevail.
Regards.

That is just black and white thinking on multiple levels. You assume that all suicides have the same motives, when in fact some people will jump on a bomb to save several people, some may be in a prolonged state of suffering due to terminal illness and are merely cutting their suffering short while also alleviating their family from a lot of unneccesary medical expenses, and yet others may kill themselves because they have accomplished all they are going to with their life and are now just waiting for death.

So both contradictory views you present are wrong. It is not a choice between all killing being bad and all killing being good, because their are instances were killing is justifiable, and instances where it would be unethical to refrain from killing.

I have a weakness to assume the others (ethically) responsible enough to incorporate the exceptions and to presume the accessory ideas. Your above point that all self killings are not originated by same intentions, thus my generalization is limited to a particular scenario of bravery (or right/wrong cases) is True/okay. And I was aware of your point before posting it. But that was in response to our previous point of discussion. Thus answering your new point is like dropping the old argument undecided.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/3/2015 9:37:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 9:33:19 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/3/2015 7:46:56 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/3/2015 7:36:05 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:16:34 PM, Wylted wrote:


I see nothing to argue over because there are always two views; one is wrong, other is right. Despite, you see the agreement rarely.

Both can be wrong or both can be right as long as they aren't contradictory.

As long as two views aren't contradictory, they're no longer considered as two (separate/contradictory) views.
(At least in the prescribed context)

Basically the unit of analysis is the counter-party, two counter parties can summon upon a wrong view (or both parties can agree on a right/rational-view that is actually required). But however, wrong view can't dominate the right one, (when we talk about agreement) as long as truth prevails.

Hence, sometimes you decide between right and wrong but sometimes you decide between two options which is "right" in itself.
1. killing yourself = right?
or
2. Not killing yourself = right?

1&2 are contradictory. Only one can be right (in whatever sense).

Thus decision is not based upon questioning good/bad things associated with "killing", but to logically proceeds towards right doings.

Above all, what the killing gives? Sense of bravery? Relief? And whatever more.
The equation is:
Relief/(Bravery sense)/x(whatever reason/logic)*killing(0)=Death =0/ no sense of outcome (as the man is no more, to get anything of this life)

At least no outcome to the principal (self) killer. Though may be a chunk of people would remember the dead, as a brave man (I believe, idiotically). But would not like to follow their mentor. If this is what self killer want to get of his life that people should consider him brave enough that he killed himself, then I would say, killing yourself can't be analogous to bravery. Otherwise, all the living persons should be considered as coward. But this idea proposes that all brave men should kill themselves and all coward must live. This way, who would left on earth would be an intelligent one only (though temporarily/ hypothetically labeled as coward). And we'll lost all the idiots, though brave enough to die. But you still see the idiots around.

Hoping the rationality to prevail.
Regards.

That is just black and white thinking on multiple levels. You assume that all suicides have the same motives, when in fact some people will jump on a bomb to save several people, some may be in a prolonged state of suffering due to terminal illness and are merely cutting their suffering short while also alleviating their family from a lot of unneccesary medical expenses, and yet others may kill themselves because they have accomplished all they are going to with their life and are now just waiting for death.

So both contradictory views you present are wrong. It is not a choice between all killing being bad and all killing being good, because their are instances were killing is justifiable, and instances where it would be unethical to refrain from killing.

I have a weakness to assume the others (ethically) responsible enough to incorporate the exceptions and to presume the accessory ideas. Your above point that all self killings are not originated by same intentions, thus my generalization is limited to a particular scenario of bravery (or right/wrong cases) is True/okay. And I was aware of your point before posting it. But that was in response to our previous point of discussion. Thus answering your new point is like dropping the old argument undecided.

I am not even sure what you're talking about with all the back pedaling and redirection. If you want to continue the conversation than challenge me to a debate where you you take the side that suicide is an act of cowardice or immoral. You can make exceptions for Matrydom or cases of the terminally ill if you want.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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4/3/2015 1:17:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 9:37:47 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/3/2015 9:33:19 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/3/2015 7:46:56 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/3/2015 7:36:05 AM, Dazz wrote:
At 4/2/2015 1:16:34 PM, Wylted wrote:


I see nothing to argue over because there are always two views; one is wrong, other is right. Despite, you see the agreement rarely.

Both can be wrong or both can be right as long as they aren't contradictory.

As long as two views aren't contradictory, they're no longer considered as two (separate/contradictory) views.
(At least in the prescribed context)

Basically the unit of analysis is the counter-party, two counter parties can summon upon a wrong view (or both parties can agree on a right/rational-view that is actually required). But however, wrong view can't dominate the right one, (when we talk about agreement) as long as truth prevails.

Hence, sometimes you decide between right and wrong but sometimes you decide between two options which is "right" in itself.
1. killing yourself = right?
or
2. Not killing yourself = right?

1&2 are contradictory. Only one can be right (in whatever sense).

Thus decision is not based upon questioning good/bad things associated with "killing", but to logically proceeds towards right doings.

Above all, what the killing gives? Sense of bravery? Relief? And whatever more.
The equation is:
Relief/(Bravery sense)/x(whatever reason/logic)*killing(0)=Death =0/ no sense of outcome (as the man is no more, to get anything of this life)

At least no outcome to the principal (self) killer. Though may be a chunk of people would remember the dead, as a brave man (I believe, idiotically). But would not like to follow their mentor. If this is what self killer want to get of his life that people should consider him brave enough that he killed himself, then I would say, killing yourself can't be analogous to bravery. Otherwise, all the living persons should be considered as coward. But this idea proposes that all brave men should kill themselves and all coward must live. This way, who would left on earth would be an intelligent one only (though temporarily/ hypothetically labeled as coward). And we'll lost all the idiots, though brave enough to die. But you still see the idiots around.

Hoping the rationality to prevail.
Regards.

That is just black and white thinking on multiple levels. You assume that all suicides have the same motives, when in fact some people will jump on a bomb to save several people, some may be in a prolonged state of suffering due to terminal illness and are merely cutting their suffering short while also alleviating their family from a lot of unneccesary medical expenses, and yet others may kill themselves because they have accomplished all they are going to with their life and are now just waiting for death.

So both contradictory views you present are wrong. It is not a choice between all killing being bad and all killing being good, because their are instances were killing is justifiable, and instances where it would be unethical to refrain from killing.

I have a weakness to assume the others (ethically) responsible enough to incorporate the exceptions and to presume the accessory ideas. Your above point that all self killings are not originated by same intentions, thus my generalization is limited to a particular scenario of bravery (or right/wrong cases) is True/okay. And I was aware of your point before posting it. But that was in response to our previous point of discussion. Thus answering your new point is like dropping the old argument undecided.

I am not even sure what you're talking about with all the back pedaling and redirection. If you want to continue the conversation than challenge me to a debate where you you take the side that suicide is an act of cowardice or immoral. You can make exceptions for Matrydom or cases of the terminally ill if you want.

LOL. What would be you defending then?
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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4/3/2015 4:16:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 11:03:26 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I felt the need to address a common problem in the world that struck this community as well. If i didn't experience it myself, i would not be writing this but i did. With my experiences, i come to share with you to help you. I lost a few people to suicide and know the pain that comes with it, it's not worth it. I won't tell you to seek professional help, i just want you to listen and the rest is your choice. I've felt suicidal plenty of times before for various reasons (break-up, depression, unresolved conflict, loneliness, etc.) You name it. I broke down and planned a few because life was a living hell. Nevertheless i realized there was 1 thing i never lost...my friends...family...and hope. It seemed hopeless until i saw that they never gave up on me...and i felt their pain...the pain of wanting to help someone but you can't...which made me get back up because the world needs me...Your not the only one suffering! There's people who are in the same place your in who desperately need a friend to comfort them! People who are lonely! Who need help! Are you going to just leave them to die?!? There's people out there who need your love and you want to die because you see no reason to live?!? Your going to leave this world with more suffering?!?!? Before i could kill myself, I knew i could make a difference in 1 person's life and i rushed out to help them without thinking about myself! Life is worth more than the girls you lost..than the parents you never had..than the pain your going through..What brought me back was not that i dealt with the pain...but that i never gave up on myself or on those who need me the most. I just want you to think about this and PM me.

Sincerely,

Truth_Seeker

I thank EsocialBookWorm, Lannan13, and others for inspiring me.

Welcome.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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4/3/2015 4:46:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 6:49:20 AM, SamStevens wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

http://www.axgig.com...

Haha, Cyninide and Happiness.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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4/3/2015 4:47:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 4:46:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 4/3/2015 6:49:20 AM, SamStevens wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

http://www.axgig.com...

Haha, Cyninide and Happiness.

They produce some funny images with captions.
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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4/3/2015 4:49:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 4:47:57 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 4/3/2015 4:46:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 4/3/2015 6:49:20 AM, SamStevens wrote:
At 4/1/2015 11:21:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
This thread made me want to kill myself, and you know what there is nothing wrong with killing yourself. I'm tired of it being treated like it is a disease. If I want to blow my own brains out one day, that is nobody's business except for the people who have to clean that shitt up.

http://www.axgig.com...

Haha, Cyninide and Happiness.

They produce some funny images with captions.

They've also did videos too.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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