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My School District

1harderthanyouthink
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5/8/2015 2:54:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Today, I heard that someone in my grade had to go to the hospital because someone beat the crap out of him on the bus.

The person who beat him up was expelled from two school districts prior to coming to mine, yet, my district let him in. What did he get expelled for? Beating the sh!t out of kids. And what has happened as a result of willingly letting him in, knowing full well of his history?

There's a policy at my school - that if you stand up for yourself or others when someone is being physically assaulted, you will get into trouble as well, and be suspended. The rules they make to keep kids safe puts them more at risk, because nobody wants to be the one that stands up for another student. I was punched in the face last Friday, and my vice principal warned me, saying that if I fought back, I would get suspended - and then he punished me: not as severely, but I was punished nonetheless - for being pushed around and punched. If I wasn't feeling so forgiving last week, I would've been suspended for fighting back against someone who was physically assaulting me.

The events that took place yesterday are not surprising to any student, for this type of administrative incompetence has become commonplace. They accepted someone who was expelled from two other school districts into the school. He beat someone so bad they had to go to the hospital. Because of their policy of second chances to those that deserve none, someone is in the fvcking hospital.

They also accepted someone else who was expelled from another district into the school. This year, he molested two girls for the fun of it, and is now a registered sex offender - and he was only suspended for five days for each molestation.

So here we are, and all people do is stand by as someone is being severely hurt. No student made a move to stop it. The bus driver stopped the bus but did not immediately stop it, instead opting for using her radio to call someone and then trying to verbally stop it.

So, I hate my district.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Maikuru
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5/8/2015 3:12:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I also grew up in New Jersey. Some of the districts are in tatters and Christie has it out for the educators. Tell adults you trust about the difficulties you are having.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Khaos_Mage
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5/8/2015 3:39:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think it is important to step back and look at all angles and the big picture.

This kid is a menace, let's blame the parents. Further, if he is thrice hospitalizing kids, he should be in jail.
Why did the school district let him in? Likely because they had to. It's called compulsory education. It's the same reason elementary students can't bring peanut butter sandwiches from home for lunch.

In short, blame the parents and the judicial system, not the school district for having their hands tied. After all, the parents could have home schooled him.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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5/8/2015 7:10:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 2:54:19 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Today, I heard that someone in my grade had to go to the hospital because someone beat the crap out of him on the bus.

The person who beat him up was expelled from two school districts prior to coming to mine, yet, my district let him in. What did he get expelled for? Beating the sh!t out of kids. And what has happened as a result of willingly letting him in, knowing full well of his history?

There's a policy at my school - that if you stand up for yourself or others when someone is being physically assaulted, you will get into trouble as well, and be suspended. The rules they make to keep kids safe puts them more at risk, because nobody wants to be the one that stands up for another student. I was punched in the face last Friday, and my vice principal warned me, saying that if I fought back, I would get suspended - and then he punished me: not as severely, but I was punished nonetheless - for being pushed around and punched. If I wasn't feeling so forgiving last week, I would've been suspended for fighting back against someone who was physically assaulting me.

The events that took place yesterday are not surprising to any student, for this type of administrative incompetence has become commonplace. They accepted someone who was expelled from two other school districts into the school. He beat someone so bad they had to go to the hospital. Because of their policy of second chances to those that deserve none, someone is in the fvcking hospital.

They also accepted someone else who was expelled from another district into the school. This year, he molested two girls for the fun of it, and is now a registered sex offender - and he was only suspended for five days for each molestation.

So here we are, and all people do is stand by as someone is being severely hurt. No student made a move to stop it. The bus driver stopped the bus but did not immediately stop it, instead opting for using her radio to call someone and then trying to verbally stop it.

So, I hate my district.

Part 1: I share your frustration with the policy

Public schools embody idiotic policies. Private schools have their problems too, but zero tolerance policies like this defy logic as much as they are inconsistent with most basic human standards of practicality and fairness.

Punishing someone because they got punched is egregious, and the administrators who allowed policies like that to come into place, as well as the pathetic administrators who enforce them, should be ashamed of themselves.

The banality and ubiquity of garbage like this is what makes it especially disturbing.

The idea behind a zero tolerance for violence policy is to eliminate violence; which is an idiotically unrealistic objective, most probably written by a naive and stupid ideologue who had the backing of a teacher's union and a PhD in educational leadership.

It should be reasonably clear that I'm as outraged as I am indignant at the policy.

Part 2: I share your frustration with the school district's admitting the perverted and violent kid

As Khaos mentioned, there are probably extensive reasons (one of which may have been shitty parents) why kids act out in sexually violent, physically violent, and generally antisocial ways. That does not mean that those kids need to be intermingled with kids whose actions do not indicate their desire to act in commensurately antisocial ways.

In Massachusetts, we have alternative schools, and other "educational options" for problem children. Many of the "trouble makers" go to trade schools instead of high school as well. This prevents a number of "issues" that arise from co-mingling kids who make a practice of engaging in anti-social behavior with the general population of students. This is a reasonable and practical solution to the problem arising from kids like the one you've described.

I don't know if NJ has elected to take that route, although I think it would be reasonably consistent with their existing educational practices given their egregious administrative waste and desire to feed the beast that is the New Jersey teacher's union. (I will never miss an opportunity to spit on teacher's unions, but that's another rant for another day.)

Part 3: What I Would Do If I Were In Your Situation

If someone hit me, and I knew that I was going to get punished whether I hit them back or not, I would hit the kid who hit me back so hard that he wouldn't stand back up. I would literally knock him flat on his @ss. There are practical and moral reasons for this, as well.

Practically, there are two issues to consider (1) the degree of punishment faced, (2) the probability of future acts of aggression by others. I would argue that the utility of the deterrent value from punching the kid back, and punching him back as hard as possible and in a place that would cause physical damage -whether in a public place or not- outweighs any risk of punishment for doing so. The reason is this: when you're dealing with a bully, you've got two options... fight back or not fight back. If you fight back, then you deter that bully and other would be bullies from bullying you. If you don't fight back, then you expose yourself to the risk of that kid bullying you in the future, and others doing the same. That matters because if you're going to get punished anyway whenever you get hit (because of the stupid zero tolerance policy) to the extent that you successfully deter the bully, you're both minimizing the chance of future punishments incurred as surely as you are reducing the chance that you're going to be victimized in the future.

I'd suggest you punch the nose, mouth, or both if you're in a public place where others are around, because an injury to the nose or mouth is a lot less likely to cause lasting damage but it will look really serious to the crowd. So, people see that you fight back and you get a reputation of someone who isn't to be fvcked with.

If, in the alternative, you're not in a public place, then you want to punch where he's going to feel serious pain. This is to connect "bullying you" with "feeling pain" on his part. You also minimize the risk of getting caught if you punch soft tissue, because that's less likely to require that he immediately go to the nurse or whatever. Go for the kidneys, sides (with hook punches), stomach or jaw (don't break the jaw). Then, he just talks about it to his friends.

The thing to consider here is that you've got to hit hard enough to make this sh!t not want to mess with you again; so your response has to be proportional to his will to harass you in the future, rather than the specific occurrence giving rise to your needing to deter his behavior.

Morally, bullies deserve to be retaliated against with force proportional to their desire to harm others, which is sufficient to deter their engaging in behavior that harms others. It is not only morally permissible to stand up for yourself, it's something that any reasonable standard of justice entitled you to do.

HOWEVER: Fists, and only fists (no weapons, or anything else) are appropriate to do this. Perhaps legs, and elbows as well. It is never acceptable to use a weapon to deter a bully, and it is never acceptable to seek revenge on a bully which causes the bully physical harm. I feel like this is important to add, because of the day and age we live in, not because I think you are of the kind of person who would necessarily engage in that sort of behavior.
Tsar of DDO
Illegalcombatant
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5/8/2015 8:06:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 2:54:19 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Today, I heard that someone in my grade had to go to the hospital because someone beat the crap out of him on the bus.

The person who beat him up was expelled from two school districts prior to coming to mine, yet, my district let him in. What did he get expelled for? Beating the sh!t out of kids. And what has happened as a result of willingly letting him in, knowing full well of his history?

There's a policy at my school - that if you stand up for yourself or others when someone is being physically assaulted, you will get into trouble as well, and be suspended. The rules they make to keep kids safe puts them more at risk, because nobody wants to be the one that stands up for another student. I was punched in the face last Friday, and my vice principal warned me, saying that if I fought back, I would get suspended - and then he punished me: not as severely, but I was punished nonetheless - for being pushed around and punched. If I wasn't feeling so forgiving last week, I would've been suspended for fighting back against someone who was physically assaulting me.

You know what f*ck wits hate ? being put in the lime light.

Id say record all this, put in on you tube, put it in the media. really want to p*ss them off ?.

ON a side note I think you have learn't a lesson that I dare say I learn't a bit to later than I should. That the "world" and how it is set up often does not have your best interests in mind. It's all smiles and platitudes while they bend you over.

School is just the start..........


The events that took place yesterday are not surprising to any student, for this type of administrative incompetence has become commonplace. They accepted someone who was expelled from two other school districts into the school. He beat someone so bad they had to go to the hospital. Because of their policy of second chances to those that deserve none, someone is in the fvcking hospital.

They also accepted someone else who was expelled from another district into the school. This year, he molested two girls for the fun of it, and is now a registered sex offender - and he was only suspended for five days for each molestation.

So here we are, and all people do is stand by as someone is being severely hurt. No student made a move to stop it. The bus driver stopped the bus but did not immediately stop it, instead opting for using her radio to call someone and then trying to verbally stop it.

So, I hate my district.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
YYW
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5/8/2015 8:25:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 8:06:25 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
ON a side note I think you have learn't a lesson that I dare say I learn't a bit to later than I should. That the "world" and how it is set up often does not have your best interests in mind. It's all smiles and platitudes while they bend you over.

That's a good point as well. I think I'll add this...

There are many places where institutions write policies that advance their interests and not yours, or where institutions set up policies that are manifestly unethical but which serve their objectives so they go with it.

That's why we all have to advocate for our own interests... always. Advocacy is a hard thing to do, especially when it defies the banal platitudes that the institutions we have to belong to tell us...

(I feel like "Another Brick in the Wall, Pt. 2" should be playing while people read this.)
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YYW
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5/8/2015 8:29:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 3:39:28 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I think it is important to step back and look at all angles and the big picture.

This kid is a menace, let's blame the parents. Further, if he is thrice hospitalizing kids, he should be in jail.
Why did the school district let him in? Likely because they had to. It's called compulsory education. It's the same reason elementary students can't bring peanut butter sandwiches from home for lunch.

In short, blame the parents and the judicial system, not the school district for having their hands tied. After all, the parents could have home schooled him.

It should be noted that there are plenty of kids out there who have horrible parents who don't turn out to be deviants or aggressively violent.
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YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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5/8/2015 8:49:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 2:54:19 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Today, I heard that someone in my grade had to go to the hospital because someone beat the crap out of him on the bus.

The person who beat him up was expelled from two school districts prior to coming to mine, yet, my district let him in. What did he get expelled for? Beating the sh!t out of kids. And what has happened as a result of willingly letting him in, knowing full well of his history?

There's a policy at my school - that if you stand up for yourself or others when someone is being physically assaulted, you will get into trouble as well, and be suspended. The rules they make to keep kids safe puts them more at risk, because nobody wants to be the one that stands up for another student. I was punched in the face last Friday, and my vice principal warned me, saying that if I fought back, I would get suspended - and then he punished me: not as severely, but I was punished nonetheless - for being pushed around and punched. If I wasn't feeling so forgiving last week, I would've been suspended for fighting back against someone who was physically assaulting me.

The events that took place yesterday are not surprising to any student, for this type of administrative incompetence has become commonplace. They accepted someone who was expelled from two other school districts into the school. He beat someone so bad they had to go to the hospital. Because of their policy of second chances to those that deserve none, someone is in the fvcking hospital.

They also accepted someone else who was expelled from another district into the school. This year, he molested two girls for the fun of it, and is now a registered sex offender - and he was only suspended for five days for each molestation.

So here we are, and all people do is stand by as someone is being severely hurt. No student made a move to stop it. The bus driver stopped the bus but did not immediately stop it, instead opting for using her radio to call someone and then trying to verbally stop it.

So, I hate my district.
On the assault rules:
My school uses them more as general guidelines. I've broken up many a fight where a person was left with a bleeding face but the culprit only got suspended for a few days. It's complete b******t. Heck, they even tried to suspend me for stopping a fight once but I arranged for an officer to come in and lead a presentation showing the difference between self defense and assault. I got off with a warning I proceeded to wipe my @ss with. So... I'd recommend befriending someone who knows about this stuff. If you do, they won't be able to hold up the suspension for long.

On self defense.. I could instruct you on it (it would be better asking Lannan or Linkish) verbally. I hold police level combat training. Meaning detainment techniques and personal defense, mainly. I'd also recommend getting a CCW ASAP if you live somewhere mugging and this stuff is common. Because those kids will just grow up into thugs.

On the molester. You don't have anyone to "take care of him" at your school? Usually, we'd make a guy like that's life a living hell via psychological torture (more useful than you'd think). Especially if he had the audacity to touch one of our friends or lovers.

On the bus thing. I get picked up or drive with a guardian so... idk.
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YamaVonKarma
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5/8/2015 8:51:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Real talk, these kinda guys turn into little b***hs when they meet someone who really knows how to fight. Though, they usually get their fellow delinquents to join in and jump someone like punks.

On another note, I'd look into joining my local explorer post. We get guys like you all the time. When we're done, this kinda stuff doesn't happen anymore because you learn how to assert and defend yourself.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/8/2015 9:58:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 8:29:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2015 3:39:28 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I think it is important to step back and look at all angles and the big picture.

This kid is a menace, let's blame the parents. Further, if he is thrice hospitalizing kids, he should be in jail.
Why did the school district let him in? Likely because they had to. It's called compulsory education. It's the same reason elementary students can't bring peanut butter sandwiches from home for lunch.

In short, blame the parents and the judicial system, not the school district for having their hands tied. After all, the parents could have home schooled him.

It should be noted that there are plenty of kids out there who have horrible parents who don't turn out to be deviants or aggressively violent.

It should be noted that these parents are bad parents for not addressing/fixing the issue with their child, either now or, preferably, before this incident.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
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5/8/2015 9:59:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 9:58:27 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/8/2015 8:29:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2015 3:39:28 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I think it is important to step back and look at all angles and the big picture.

This kid is a menace, let's blame the parents. Further, if he is thrice hospitalizing kids, he should be in jail.
Why did the school district let him in? Likely because they had to. It's called compulsory education. It's the same reason elementary students can't bring peanut butter sandwiches from home for lunch.

In short, blame the parents and the judicial system, not the school district for having their hands tied. After all, the parents could have home schooled him.

It should be noted that there are plenty of kids out there who have horrible parents who don't turn out to be deviants or aggressively violent.

It should be noted that these parents are bad parents for not addressing/fixing the issue with their child, either now or, preferably, before this incident.

I don't disagree.... but the fact that there are bad parents doesn't absolve a kid of all responsibility in the matter.
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Khaos_Mage
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5/8/2015 10:03:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 9:59:15 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2015 9:58:27 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/8/2015 8:29:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2015 3:39:28 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I think it is important to step back and look at all angles and the big picture.

This kid is a menace, let's blame the parents. Further, if he is thrice hospitalizing kids, he should be in jail.
Why did the school district let him in? Likely because they had to. It's called compulsory education. It's the same reason elementary students can't bring peanut butter sandwiches from home for lunch.

In short, blame the parents and the judicial system, not the school district for having their hands tied. After all, the parents could have home schooled him.

It should be noted that there are plenty of kids out there who have horrible parents who don't turn out to be deviants or aggressively violent.

It should be noted that these parents are bad parents for not addressing/fixing the issue with their child, either now or, preferably, before this incident.

I don't disagree.... but the fact that there are bad parents doesn't absolve a kid of all responsibility in the matter.

I don't disagree, but my point was this issue is not really the school districts fault for, likely, being forced into letting the student attend. The bad behavior is 100% the kid's, but the parents are bad parents for not addressing this deviancy long before (or causing it), and the justice system is at fault as well.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
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5/8/2015 10:05:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:03:01 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/8/2015 9:59:15 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2015 9:58:27 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/8/2015 8:29:21 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/8/2015 3:39:28 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I think it is important to step back and look at all angles and the big picture.

This kid is a menace, let's blame the parents. Further, if he is thrice hospitalizing kids, he should be in jail.
Why did the school district let him in? Likely because they had to. It's called compulsory education. It's the same reason elementary students can't bring peanut butter sandwiches from home for lunch.

In short, blame the parents and the judicial system, not the school district for having their hands tied. After all, the parents could have home schooled him.

It should be noted that there are plenty of kids out there who have horrible parents who don't turn out to be deviants or aggressively violent.

It should be noted that these parents are bad parents for not addressing/fixing the issue with their child, either now or, preferably, before this incident.

I don't disagree.... but the fact that there are bad parents doesn't absolve a kid of all responsibility in the matter.

I don't disagree, but my point was this issue is not really the school districts fault for, likely, being forced into letting the student attend. The bad behavior is 100% the kid's, but the parents are bad parents for not addressing this deviancy long before (or causing it), and the justice system is at fault as well.

Well, it may not be the particular school's fault, but when you get to the district level.... they're beginning to be culpable, to a degree. But really, it's the school board which takes the blame, in total.
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1harderthanyouthink
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5/8/2015 10:16:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 8:51:47 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Real talk, these kinda guys turn into little b***hs when they meet someone who really knows how to fight. Though, they usually get their fellow delinquents to join in and jump someone like punks.

On another note, I'd look into joining my local explorer post. We get guys like you all the time. When we're done, this kinda stuff doesn't happen anymore because you learn how to assert and defend yourself.

I know how to defend myself.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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5/8/2015 10:26:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:24:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Jesus christ where do you live

New Jersey.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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dylancatlow
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5/8/2015 10:29:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:26:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:24:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Jesus christ where do you live

New Jersey.

Is your school known for being rough?
1harderthanyouthink
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5/8/2015 10:31:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:29:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:26:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:24:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Jesus christ where do you live

New Jersey.

Is your school known for being rough?

Sort of. There's an inordinate amount of potheads and dipshits.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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dylancatlow
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5/8/2015 10:34:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:31:09 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:29:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:26:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:24:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Jesus christ where do you live

New Jersey.

Is your school known for being rough?

Sort of. There's an inordinate amount of potheads and dipshits.

That's unfortunate.
1harderthanyouthink
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5/8/2015 10:34:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:34:04 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:31:09 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:29:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:26:37 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:24:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Jesus christ where do you live

New Jersey.

Is your school known for being rough?

Sort of. There's an inordinate amount of potheads and dipshits.

That's unfortunate.

Quite.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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5/8/2015 10:35:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://www.debate.org...
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thett3
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5/8/2015 10:42:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Zero tolerance policies really are bullshitt. If a kid is attacked, he has a right to fight back. I saw a kid my freshman year get in a fight he didn't start, and they were both punished. Like wtf?

The most chilling aspect of this is that these weak, pathetic, reality detached fools are the ones in charge of instructing our kids...it seems every day you hear about something like a kid getting suspended for chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun. God help us.
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: thett was right
YYW
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5/9/2015 10:53:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:42:14 PM, thett3 wrote:
Zero tolerance policies really are bullshitt. If a kid is attacked, he has a right to fight back. I saw a kid my freshman year get in a fight he didn't start, and they were both punished. Like wtf?

The most chilling aspect of this is that these weak, pathetic, reality detached fools are the ones in charge of instructing our kids...it seems every day you hear about something like a kid getting suspended for chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun. God help us.

I agree. Zero tolerance policies are a cheap cop-out. They're put in place by naive, stupid ideologues who likely hold advanced degrees in educational leadership (read: they took years of their lives devoted to circle-jerking one another) at the expense of basic notions of justice and fair play.

How zero tolerance policies serve institutional interests is pretty simple: they enable the district to say "we take a strong position against violence," and "we treat everyone the same." Which means that parents of one kid can't come in and say "well, why did [kid x] get treated in one way but my kid got something different?" There is a reason for that.... because the situations were different.

But, administrators want everything to be standardized and uniform, so they come up with egregious policies that treat everyone equally egregiously... and they call this "taking a strong stance against violence" when what they're really doing is creating the kinds of conditions where people are told to sit down, shut up and listen rather than advocate for themselves and fight on behalf of their own interests. It imbibes a person with the idea that they are a "subject" and that they can be no more than a subject, and it's disgusting.

This is one of among many reasons that I hate public schools.

However, not all public schools are like this. There are those rare administrators who more or less don't care what the policies are, and are going to do what's right because it's what's right. These people usually lose their jobs. It's why I couldn't be a high school principal... I would be fired, because I would not bow to policies like that. I would also make incompetent, bitchy teachers lives very unhappy until they quit.
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Khaos_Mage
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5/9/2015 1:58:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 10:42:14 PM, thett3 wrote:
Zero tolerance policies really are bullshitt. If a kid is attacked, he has a right to fight back. I saw a kid my freshman year get in a fight he didn't start, and they were both punished. Like wtf?

The most chilling aspect of this is that these weak, pathetic, reality detached fools are the ones in charge of instructing our kids...it seems every day you hear about something like a kid getting suspended for chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun. God help us.

Pretty much what YYW said, but I will add this:
A big part of the reason they do this zero-tolerance and similar streamlined policies, is because it avoids lawsuits, and lawsuits can come because they are government schools.
It's great that Johnny was suspended for a day because he pushed Susie to the ground, but Jamal was expelled for doing the same thing (because it's his fifth time doing so). Clearly that is racism, and let's sue. Even to handle it out of court costs money.

In private schools, you don't have the "everyone is equal" thing, since you are selective from the get-go. Public schools are government, and government can't discriminate, and when it does, or rather, when it is perceived it does, it is sued.

And, further, when it comes to kids, no one is more psychotic than its parents. "If you embarrass my kid, I'll burn the school down" is quite a few of their mentalities. Like I said, look at elementary schools not allowing peanut butter sandwiches from home. It's zero tolerance because to grant an exception to one kid, you have to judge them and others, and parents will not like that.
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5/9/2015 2:32:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/9/2015 1:58:41 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:42:14 PM, thett3 wrote:
Zero tolerance policies really are bullshitt. If a kid is attacked, he has a right to fight back. I saw a kid my freshman year get in a fight he didn't start, and they were both punished. Like wtf?

The most chilling aspect of this is that these weak, pathetic, reality detached fools are the ones in charge of instructing our kids...it seems every day you hear about something like a kid getting suspended for chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun. God help us.

Pretty much what YYW said, but I will add this:
A big part of the reason they do this zero-tolerance and similar streamlined policies, is because it avoids lawsuits, and lawsuits can come because they are government schools.
It's great that Johnny was suspended for a day because he pushed Susie to the ground, but Jamal was expelled for doing the same thing (because it's his fifth time doing so). Clearly that is racism, and let's sue. Even to handle it out of court costs money.

In private schools, you don't have the "everyone is equal" thing, since you are selective from the get-go. Public schools are government, and government can't discriminate, and when it does, or rather, when it is perceived it does, it is sued.

And, further, when it comes to kids, no one is more psychotic than its parents. "If you embarrass my kid, I'll burn the school down" is quite a few of their mentalities. Like I said, look at elementary schools not allowing peanut butter sandwiches from home. It's zero tolerance because to grant an exception to one kid, you have to judge them and others, and parents will not like that.

Yes, that's very true. Our entire legal system used to be based on discretion and judgement, but that's long gone--it's all blind legalism now. True, when you give people autonomy to make judgments for themselves unfairness sometimes occurs, but zero tolerance and other such blanket declarations designed to make things fair are fair to no one. It just sucks /:
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dylancatlow
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5/9/2015 3:21:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In my opinion, any school which has a policy of suspending students for self-defense should be brought to court for systematic child abuse.
YYW
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5/9/2015 7:11:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/9/2015 3:21:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
In my opinion, any school which has a policy of suspending students for self-defense should be brought to court for systematic child abuse.

Except that's not child abuse...
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dylancatlow
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5/9/2015 7:14:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/9/2015 7:11:03 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/9/2015 3:21:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
In my opinion, any school which has a policy of suspending students for self-defense should be brought to court for systematic child abuse.

Except that's not child abuse...

Punishing children for getting beaten up, or depriving them of self-defense, is indeed abuse.
Vox_Veritas
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5/9/2015 7:24:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is crap. I wouldn't care if I got expelled; if one guy (intentionally) hits me I'm gonna hit him back.
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YYW
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5/9/2015 7:37:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/9/2015 1:58:41 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/8/2015 10:42:14 PM, thett3 wrote:
Zero tolerance policies really are bullshitt. If a kid is attacked, he has a right to fight back. I saw a kid my freshman year get in a fight he didn't start, and they were both punished. Like wtf?

The most chilling aspect of this is that these weak, pathetic, reality detached fools are the ones in charge of instructing our kids...it seems every day you hear about something like a kid getting suspended for chewing a poptart into the shape of a gun. God help us.

Pretty much what YYW said, but I will add this:
A big part of the reason they do this zero-tolerance and similar streamlined policies, is because it avoids lawsuits, and lawsuits can come because they are government schools.

You are 100% correct there.

It's great that Johnny was suspended for a day because he pushed Susie to the ground, but Jamal was expelled for doing the same thing (because it's his fifth time doing so). Clearly that is racism, and let's sue. Even to handle it out of court costs money.

Yup.

In private schools, you don't have the "everyone is equal" thing, since you are selective from the get-go. Public schools are government, and government can't discriminate, and when it does, or rather, when it is perceived it does, it is sued.

Correct.

And, further, when it comes to kids, no one is more psychotic than its parents. "If you embarrass my kid, I'll burn the school down" is quite a few of their mentalities. Like I said, look at elementary schools not allowing peanut butter sandwiches from home. It's zero tolerance because to grant an exception to one kid, you have to judge them and others, and parents will not like that.

Yup.
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