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Any Veterans in Need of Benefits?

Saint_of_Me
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7/6/2015 9:20:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hello all you fellow and sister Vets.

First of all: Thank you for your service!

I work for the Veterans Affairs Department. As part of my Community Outreach I have been authorized to offer to assist any Vets who are thinking of applying for any sort of VA Benefits. This includes anything from health care to possible Disability claims. (Either Service- or Non-Service Connected).

The procedure for applying for this stuff can indeed by rigorous and often confusing.

Think you might be elgible? Questions? Comments? Frustrations? Critiques of our System? Please let me know. I will do my best to help, and if I cannot I can certainly put you in touch with somebody who CAN!

Thanks for your time! And please respond if you are a vet and simply want to chat about any topic related to that.

Drew.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/7/2015 12:16:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 6:51:53 AM, XLAV wrote:
I am a veteran in CS:GO. Give me benefits, please.

What the Hell is CS-GO?

But since you are just a 16 year-old little girl I am highly doubtful you are deserving of ANY of the benefits we bestow upon the brave men and women who have served their country.

Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/7/2015 12:17:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 12:16:01 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/7/2015 6:51:53 AM, XLAV wrote:
I am a veteran in CS:GO. Give me benefits, please.

What the Hell is CS-GO?

A video game. Kind of like Call of Duty, I think.
But since you are just a 16 year-old little girl I am highly doubtful you are deserving of ANY of the benefits we bestow upon the brave men and women who have served their country.

XLAV isn't a girl. LOL
Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.

Cute.
XLAV
Posts: 13,719
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7/7/2015 2:24:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 12:17:49 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/7/2015 12:16:01 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/7/2015 6:51:53 AM, XLAV wrote:
I am a veteran in CS:GO. Give me benefits, please.

What the Hell is CS-GO?

A video game. Kind of like Call of Duty, I think.
But since you are just a 16 year-old little girl I am highly doubtful you are deserving of ANY of the benefits we bestow upon the brave men and women who have served their country.

XLAV isn't a girl. LOL
YES I AM A GIRL.
Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.

Cute.
i cri
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/7/2015 2:30:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 2:24:43 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/7/2015 12:17:49 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/7/2015 12:16:01 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/7/2015 6:51:53 AM, XLAV wrote:
I am a veteran in CS:GO. Give me benefits, please.

What the Hell is CS-GO?

A video game. Kind of like Call of Duty, I think.
But since you are just a 16 year-old little girl I am highly doubtful you are deserving of ANY of the benefits we bestow upon the brave men and women who have served their country.

XLAV isn't a girl. LOL
YES I AM A GIRL.

O rlly
Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.

Cute.
i cri

evrytim?
XLAV
Posts: 13,719
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7/7/2015 2:31:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 2:30:37 PM, RevNge wrote:

YES I AM A GIRL.

O rlly
Obviously
Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.

Cute.
i cri

evrytim?

yah
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/7/2015 2:39:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 2:31:55 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/7/2015 2:30:37 PM, RevNge wrote:

YES I AM A GIRL.

O rlly
Obviously

It's not that hard to pretend to be a girl.
Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.

Cute.
i cri

evrytim?

yah

o
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/7/2015 3:00:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 2:39:47 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/7/2015 2:31:55 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/7/2015 2:30:37 PM, RevNge wrote:

YES I AM A GIRL.

O rlly
Obviously

It's not that hard to pretend to be a girl.
Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.

Cute.
i cri

evrytim?

yah

o

Could you guys get off my thread? Go over to Facebook or Yahoo Answers! or somewhere that is more "little kid friendly?"
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/7/2015 4:20:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 3:00:24 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/7/2015 2:39:47 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/7/2015 2:31:55 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/7/2015 2:30:37 PM, RevNge wrote:

YES I AM A GIRL.

O rlly
Obviously

It's not that hard to pretend to be a girl.
Also...get the hell of my thread or I will report you for spamming and trolling.

Cute.
i cri

evrytim?

yah

o

Could you guys get off my thread? Go over to Facebook or Yahoo Answers! or somewhere that is more "little kid friendly?"

Sorry old man.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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7/7/2015 7:56:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 9:20:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Hello all you fellow and sister Vets.

First of all: Thank you for your service!

I work for the Veterans Affairs Department. As part of my Community Outreach I have been authorized to offer to assist any Vets who are thinking of applying for any sort of VA Benefits. This includes anything from health care to possible Disability claims. (Either Service- or Non-Service Connected).

The procedure for applying for this stuff can indeed by rigorous and often confusing.

Think you might be elgible? Questions? Comments? Frustrations? Critiques of our System? Please let me know. I will do my best to help, and if I cannot I can certainly put you in touch with somebody who CAN!

Thanks for your time! And please respond if you are a vet and simply want to chat about any topic related to that.

Drew.

I just did some reading over the last couple of weeks on PTSD. What kind of treatments does the VA offer?
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/7/2015 8:47:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 7:56:08 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/6/2015 9:20:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Hello all you fellow and sister Vets.

First of all: Thank you for your service!

I work for the Veterans Affairs Department. As part of my Community Outreach I have been authorized to offer to assist any Vets who are thinking of applying for any sort of VA Benefits. This includes anything from health care to possible Disability claims. (Either Service- or Non-Service Connected).

The procedure for applying for this stuff can indeed by rigorous and often confusing.

Think you might be elgible? Questions? Comments? Frustrations? Critiques of our System? Please let me know. I will do my best to help, and if I cannot I can certainly put you in touch with somebody who CAN!

Thanks for your time! And please respond if you are a vet and simply want to chat about any topic related to that.

Drew.

I just did some reading over the last couple of weeks on PTSD. What kind of treatments does the VA offer?

Well, the most intense and comprehensive treatment would be one of our inpatient programs. These are offered at dozens of VA's across the country, including the one I work at in Arizona.

They typically last from 21-60 days. A 30-Day program is probably the norm. A Vet of course does an interview (what we call an I & A (Intake & Assessment) to see if the panel feels he will benefit from the Program; or if his symptoms warrant inpatient Trx. This is usually done by a panel of, oh, 3-5 Mental Health Dept. Staff, such as an MD; a psychologist, an RN, and maybe one or two counselors from the program itself.

The counselors: this is where the experience comes in. Most of them are at least vets, and usually had combat experience, or even have once suffered from PTSD themselves.

During the program, the vet will get therapy, of course--both 1 on 1 and also group therapy. The latter is usually very effective. Most vets, or at least a significant number, will claim upon completion of the program that the GT was the best part.

The Vet will also get meds if we feel his symptoms warrant them. This of course is always up to the Vet. One of the items in the Patient Bill of Right explicitly says that a client always has the option of taking meds or not.

But yeah..I must admit: the VA does love its meds! They are a staple, As they are in the entire Mental Health system--both government and private sector.

There are also OP Programs available. (Outpatient.) usually these will go on for anywhere from a month to six months--with AfterCare almost always an option. The intensity of these OP programs varies; a vet might typically go to classes for 3-4 hours a day, four days a week, for several weeks.

Or...a vet can just present to his Team with symptoms of PTSD, and get some meds if that is all he wants. This is a common 1st step for many vets. Often they find it is not enough, and they end up doing to IP or OP programs.

We also have Substance Abuse programs. it is common for a vet with PTSD to self-medicate with booze or dope, which of course creates a whole new beast to treat. It is very common for a vet to go through a S.A. program first, to get detoxed and stabilized, and then do the PTSD.

In fact, may PTSD programs require a period of sobriety before admission. We want them to be at their best and with as clear a head as possible. A typical required sobriety period might be one week or so.

Let me know if you have any more questions. And thanks for asking!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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7/8/2015 9:19:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 8:47:49 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/7/2015 7:56:08 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/6/2015 9:20:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Hello all you fellow and sister Vets.

First of all: Thank you for your service!

I work for the Veterans Affairs Department. As part of my Community Outreach I have been authorized to offer to assist any Vets who are thinking of applying for any sort of VA Benefits. This includes anything from health care to possible Disability claims. (Either Service- or Non-Service Connected).

The procedure for applying for this stuff can indeed by rigorous and often confusing.

Think you might be elgible? Questions? Comments? Frustrations? Critiques of our System? Please let me know. I will do my best to help, and if I cannot I can certainly put you in touch with somebody who CAN!

Thanks for your time! And please respond if you are a vet and simply want to chat about any topic related to that.

Drew.

I just did some reading over the last couple of weeks on PTSD. What kind of treatments does the VA offer?

Well, the most intense and comprehensive treatment would be one of our inpatient programs. These are offered at dozens of VA's across the country, including the one I work at in Arizona.

They typically last from 21-60 days. A 30-Day program is probably the norm. A Vet of course does an interview (what we call an I & A (Intake & Assessment) to see if the panel feels he will benefit from the Program; or if his symptoms warrant inpatient Trx. This is usually done by a panel of, oh, 3-5 Mental Health Dept. Staff, such as an MD; a psychologist, an RN, and maybe one or two counselors from the program itself.

The counselors: this is where the experience comes in. Most of them are at least vets, and usually had combat experience, or even have once suffered from PTSD themselves.

During the program, the vet will get therapy, of course--both 1 on 1 and also group therapy. The latter is usually very effective. Most vets, or at least a significant number, will claim upon completion of the program that the GT was the best part.

The Vet will also get meds if we feel his symptoms warrant them. This of course is always up to the Vet. One of the items in the Patient Bill of Right explicitly says that a client always has the option of taking meds or not.

But yeah..I must admit: the VA does love its meds! They are a staple, As they are in the entire Mental Health system--both government and private sector.

There are also OP Programs available. (Outpatient.) usually these will go on for anywhere from a month to six months--with AfterCare almost always an option. The intensity of these OP programs varies; a vet might typically go to classes for 3-4 hours a day, four days a week, for several weeks.

Or...a vet can just present to his Team with symptoms of PTSD, and get some meds if that is all he wants. This is a common 1st step for many vets. Often they find it is not enough, and they end up doing to IP or OP programs.

We also have Substance Abuse programs. it is common for a vet with PTSD to self-medicate with booze or dope, which of course creates a whole new beast to treat. It is very common for a vet to go through a S.A. program first, to get detoxed and stabilized, and then do the PTSD.

In fact, may PTSD programs require a period of sobriety before admission. We want them to be at their best and with as clear a head as possible. A typical required sobriety period might be one week or so.

Let me know if you have any more questions. And thanks for asking!

Yeah psychiatrists are pretty trigger-happy with the medications =P. In the US, psychiatrists are often paid by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe their medications; something that is illegal in most of the developed work, I think. Plus, it makes their jobs, which are extremely stressful, a lot easier, since they can send someone off with pills instead of spending hours with them and sharing their pain (of course this isn't always the case, since both medication and therapy together are more effective than either alone). I completely understand this, because I don't think I could do what they do. I think I'd be a terrible psychiatrist: "Well go on then, stop just making plans about suicide and keeping everyone edge, take action!". That's a joke, by the way. I've never said that to a suicidal person. Just thought it to myself...

So I know there's a problem with treating PTSD is that therapy, SSRIs and tri-cyclics all have low-response rates, mid to low effect sizes, and poor long-term clinical outcomes. The other issues, which is significant, is that PTSD is so heterogeneous and I haven't seen any method of a prior pairing of treatment option with PTSD subtype, or personalized treatment protocol.

Even though it's so heterogeneous, a very common feature of PTSD is underconnectivity among nodes of the salience network and default mode network, particularly effecting connections with the insula and between the posterior cingulate cortex and the medial prefrontal cortex. This suggests that a treatment addressing neurobiological features may work more broadly, but only if correcting the deviant neurobiological features can treat the issue itself.

Researchers have found that neurofeedback training for suppressing alpha-band activity from medial parietal EEG can in fact improve connectivity among both the salience network and the default mode network. More importantly, it's had high response rates, effect sizes equal to medication, much lower relapse rates, and long-term efficacy without side-effects in clinical trials.

So my question is whether neurofeedback treatment options have been discussed or considered? Have you heard about this approach?
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/8/2015 3:09:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:19:26 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/7/2015 8:47:49 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/7/2015 7:56:08 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/6/2015 9:20:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Hello all you fellow and sister Vets.

First of all: Thank you for your service!

I work for the Veterans Affairs Department. As part of my Community Outreach I have been authorized to offer to assist any Vets who are thinking of applying for any sort of VA Benefits. This includes anything from health care to possible Disability claims. (Either Service- or Non-Service Connected).

The procedure for applying for this stuff can indeed by rigorous and often confusing.

Think you might be elgible? Questions? Comments? Frustrations? Critiques of our System? Please let me know. I will do my best to help, and if I cannot I can certainly put you in touch with somebody who CAN!

Thanks for your time! And please respond if you are a vet and simply want to chat about any topic related to that.

Drew.

I just did some reading over the last couple of weeks on PTSD. What kind of treatments does the VA offer?

Well, the most intense and comprehensive treatment would be one of our inpatient programs. These are offered at dozens of VA's across the country, including the one I work at in Arizona.

They typically last from 21-60 days. A 30-Day program is probably the norm. A Vet of course does an interview (what we call an I & A (Intake & Assessment) to see if the panel feels he will benefit from the Program; or if his symptoms warrant inpatient Trx. This is usually done by a panel of, oh, 3-5 Mental Health Dept. Staff, such as an MD; a psychologist, an RN, and maybe one or two counselors from the program itself.

The counselors: this is where the experience comes in. Most of them are at least vets, and usually had combat experience, or even have once suffered from PTSD themselves.

During the program, the vet will get therapy, of course--both 1 on 1 and also group therapy. The latter is usually very effective. Most vets, or at least a significant number, will claim upon completion of the program that the GT was the best part.

The Vet will also get meds if we feel his symptoms warrant them. This of course is always up to the Vet. One of the items in the Patient Bill of Right explicitly says that a client always has the option of taking meds or not.

But yeah..I must admit: the VA does love its meds! They are a staple, As they are in the entire Mental Health system--both government and private sector.

There are also OP Programs available. (Outpatient.) usually these will go on for anywhere from a month to six months--with AfterCare almost always an option. The intensity of these OP programs varies; a vet might typically go to classes for 3-4 hours a day, four days a week, for several weeks.

Or...a vet can just present to his Team with symptoms of PTSD, and get some meds if that is all he wants. This is a common 1st step for many vets. Often they find it is not enough, and they end up doing to IP or OP programs.

We also have Substance Abuse programs. it is common for a vet with PTSD to self-medicate with booze or dope, which of course creates a whole new beast to treat. It is very common for a vet to go through a S.A. program first, to get detoxed and stabilized, and then do the PTSD.

In fact, may PTSD programs require a period of sobriety before admission. We want them to be at their best and with as clear a head as possible. A typical required sobriety period might be one week or so.

Let me know if you have any more questions. And thanks for asking!

Yeah psychiatrists are pretty trigger-happy with the medications =P. In the US, psychiatrists are often paid by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe their medications; something that is illegal in most of the developed work, I think. Plus, it makes their jobs, which are extremely stressful, a lot easier, since they can send someone off with pills instead of spending hours with them and sharing their pain (of course this isn't always the case, since both medication and therapy together are more effective than either alone). I completely understand this, because I don't think I could do what they do. I think I'd be a terrible psychiatrist: "Well go on then, stop just making plans about suicide and keeping everyone edge, take action!". That's a joke, by the way. I've never said that to a suicidal person. Just thought it to myself...

So I know there's a problem with treating PTSD is that therapy, SSRIs and tri-cyclics all have low-response rates, mid to low effect sizes, and poor long-term clinical outcomes. The other issues, which is significant, is that PTSD is so heterogeneous and I haven't seen any method of a prior pairing of treatment option with PTSD subtype, or personalized treatment protocol.

Researchers have found that neurofeedback training for suppressing alpha-band activity from medial parietal EEG can in fact improve connectivity among both the salience network and the default mode network. More importantly, it's had high response rates, effect sizes equal to medication, much lower relapse rates, and long-term efficacy without side-effects in clinical trials.

So my question is whether neurofeedback treatment options have been discussed or considered? Have you heard about this approach?

OK...I have a couple of issues with your post.

ONE...Your claim that it is common for shrinks to get "kickbacks" from Big Pharma for prescribing their meds. This is an uber-popular claim among the general public--especially with folks who are "anti-meds" or "anti-Psychiatry." But the simple truth is that it just does not happen very frequently. I am not saying "never." Although I CAN say that in my college undergrad psych years, including my internship, and all the way through the three different Mental Health Facilities I have worked at, I have never heard of any MD doing this. Or getting caught.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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7/8/2015 4:32:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 3:09:07 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:19:26 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Yeah psychiatrists are pretty trigger-happy with the medications =P. In the US, psychiatrists are often paid by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe their medications; something that is illegal in most of the developed work, I think. Plus, it makes their jobs, which are extremely stressful, a lot easier, since they can send someone off with pills instead of spending hours with them and sharing their pain (of course this isn't always the case, since both medication and therapy together are more effective than either alone). I completely understand this, because I don't think I could do what they do. I think I'd be a terrible psychiatrist: "Well go on then, stop just making plans about suicide and keeping everyone edge, take action!". That's a joke, by the way. I've never said that to a suicidal person. Just thought it to myself...

So I know there's a problem with treating PTSD is that therapy, SSRIs and tri-cyclics all have low-response rates, mid to low effect sizes, and poor long-term clinical outcomes. The other issues, which is significant, is that PTSD is so heterogeneous and I haven't seen any method of a prior pairing of treatment option with PTSD subtype, or personalized treatment protocol.

Researchers have found that neurofeedback training for suppressing alpha-band activity from medial parietal EEG can in fact improve connectivity among both the salience network and the default mode network. More importantly, it's had high response rates, effect sizes equal to medication, much lower relapse rates, and long-term efficacy without side-effects in clinical trials.

So my question is whether neurofeedback treatment options have been discussed or considered? Have you heard about this approach?

OK...I have a couple of issues with your post.

ONE...Your claim that it is common for shrinks to get "kickbacks" from Big Pharma for prescribing their meds. This is an uber-popular claim among the general public--especially with folks who are "anti-meds" or "anti-Psychiatry." But the simple truth is that it just does not happen very frequently. I am not saying "never." Although I CAN say that in my college undergrad psych years, including my internship, and all the way through the three different Mental Health Facilities I have worked at, I have never heard of any MD doing this. Or getting caught.

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti-meds" or "anti-psychatry". I'm getting this from university psychologists and psychiatrists from various parts of the world, including the US, who complain about the US system. Legal battles have been fought over this in the US for at least 20 years, probably more, and it is still considered a major problem in the US: http://cp.neurology.org...

It may not be as commonly known in the US, but the other western nations seem to know a lot of things about the US that the US people seem to be unaware of.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

Because it isn't a risk to their careers, and it's a lot of tax-free money for very little. Replace MD with politician and drug reps with lobbyist and tell me you can make the same argument with a straight face =P

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Subjectively you might have seen that, but the data don't exactly corroborate that subjective experience. Less than 50% actually improve as a result of these therapies: http://www.researchgate.net...

Furthermore, relapse rates are extremely high with these treatments (e.g., E. G. Peniston and P. J. Kulkosky. Alpha-theta brainwave neurofeedback for vietnam veterans with combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. Medical Psychotherapy, 4(1):47{60, 1991).
That is a slightly old paper, though. I don't have a more recent one on my harddrive and I don't feel like looking it up right now =P

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

The combination of CBT and pharmacological treatments is the most effective and does the most to reduce relapse rates.

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.

What is that method based on? It sounds like it would be alpha-enhancement plus theta-suppression at O1 or Pz.

By the way, there's a thread in the society section of the forums where people are suggesting that we should have trigger warnings and people with PTSD should just "deal with it" when it comes to being triggered. What do you think of this? You should mention something there. http://www.debate.org...
Saint_of_Me
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7/8/2015 6:10:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 4:32:34 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:09:07 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:19:26 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Yeah psychiatrists are pretty trigger-happy with the medications =P. In the US, psychiatrists are often paid by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe their medications; something that is illegal in most of the developed work, I think. Plus, it makes their jobs, which are extremely stressful, a lot easier, since they can send someone off with pills instead of spending hours with them and sharing their pain (of course this isn't always the case, since both medication and therapy together are more effective than either alone). I completely understand this, because I don't think I could do what they do. I think I'd be a terrible psychiatrist: "Well go on then, stop just making plans about suicide and keeping everyone edge, take action!". That's a joke, by the way. I've never said that to a suicidal person. Just thought it to myself...

So I know there's a problem with treating PTSD is that therapy, SSRIs and tri-cyclics all have low-response rates, mid to low effect sizes, and poor long-term clinical outcomes. The other issues, which is significant, is that PTSD is so heterogeneous and I haven't seen any method of a prior pairing of treatment option with PTSD subtype, or personalized treatment protocol.

Researchers have found that neurofeedback training for suppressing alpha-band activity from medial parietal EEG can in fact improve connectivity among both the salience network and the default mode network. More importantly, it's had high response rates, effect sizes equal to medication, much lower relapse rates, and long-term efficacy without side-effects in clinical trials.

So my question is whether neurofeedback treatment options have been discussed or considered? Have you heard about this approach?

OK...I have a couple of issues with your post.

ONE...Your claim that it is common for shrinks to get "kickbacks" from Big Pharma for prescribing their meds. This is an uber-popular claim among the general public--especially with folks who are "anti-meds" or "anti-Psychiatry." But the simple truth is that it just does not happen very frequently. I am not saying "never." Although I CAN say that in my college undergrad psych years, including my internship, and all the way through the three different Mental Health Facilities I have worked at, I have never heard of any MD doing this. Or getting caught.

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti-meds" or "anti-psychatry". I'm getting this from university psychologists and psychiatrists from various parts of the world, including the US, who complain about the US system. Legal battles have been fought over this in the US for at least 20 years, probably more, and it is still considered a major problem in the US: http://cp.neurology.org...

It may not be as commonly known in the US, but the other western nations seem to know a lot of things about the US that the US people seem to be unaware of.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

Because it isn't a risk to their careers, and it's a lot of tax-free money for very little. Replace MD with politician and drug reps with lobbyist and tell me you can make the same argument with a straight face =P

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Subjectively you might have seen that, but the data don't exactly corroborate that subjective experience. Less than 50% actually improve as a result of these therapies: http://www.researchgate.net...

Furthermore, relapse rates are extremely high with these treatments (e.g., E. G. Peniston and P. J. Kulkosky. Alpha-theta brainwave neurofeedback for vietnam veterans with combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. Medical Psychotherapy, 4(1):47{60, 1991).
That is a slightly old paper, though. I don't have a more recent one on my harddrive and I don't feel like looking it up right now =P

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

The combination of CBT and pharmacological treatments is the most effective and does the most to reduce relapse rates.

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.

What is that method based on? It sounds like it would be alpha-enhancement plus theta-suppression at O1 or Pz.

By the way, there's a thread in the society section of the forums where people are suggesting that we should have trigger warnings and people with PTSD should just "deal with it" when it comes to being triggered. What do you think of this? You should mention something there. http://www.debate.org...

Thanks for the heads-up on that other ridiculous and clueless thread. I responded to it--in spades! LOL--as you suggested.

And yeah, my personal opinion on Trx for PTSD also has been that a combo of CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) AND meds--if needed--offer the best recourse in alleviating the most serious symptoms.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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7/8/2015 6:32:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 6:10:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 4:32:34 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:09:07 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:19:26 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Yeah psychiatrists are pretty trigger-happy with the medications =P. In the US, psychiatrists are often paid by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe their medications; something that is illegal in most of the developed work, I think. Plus, it makes their jobs, which are extremely stressful, a lot easier, since they can send someone off with pills instead of spending hours with them and sharing their pain (of course this isn't always the case, since both medication and therapy together are more effective than either alone). I completely understand this, because I don't think I could do what they do. I think I'd be a terrible psychiatrist: "Well go on then, stop just making plans about suicide and keeping everyone edge, take action!". That's a joke, by the way. I've never said that to a suicidal person. Just thought it to myself...

So I know there's a problem with treating PTSD is that therapy, SSRIs and tri-cyclics all have low-response rates, mid to low effect sizes, and poor long-term clinical outcomes. The other issues, which is significant, is that PTSD is so heterogeneous and I haven't seen any method of a prior pairing of treatment option with PTSD subtype, or personalized treatment protocol.

Researchers have found that neurofeedback training for suppressing alpha-band activity from medial parietal EEG can in fact improve connectivity among both the salience network and the default mode network. More importantly, it's had high response rates, effect sizes equal to medication, much lower relapse rates, and long-term efficacy without side-effects in clinical trials.

So my question is whether neurofeedback treatment options have been discussed or considered? Have you heard about this approach?

OK...I have a couple of issues with your post.

ONE...Your claim that it is common for shrinks to get "kickbacks" from Big Pharma for prescribing their meds. This is an uber-popular claim among the general public--especially with folks who are "anti-meds" or "anti-Psychiatry." But the simple truth is that it just does not happen very frequently. I am not saying "never." Although I CAN say that in my college undergrad psych years, including my internship, and all the way through the three different Mental Health Facilities I have worked at, I have never heard of any MD doing this. Or getting caught.

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti-meds" or "anti-psychatry". I'm getting this from university psychologists and psychiatrists from various parts of the world, including the US, who complain about the US system. Legal battles have been fought over this in the US for at least 20 years, probably more, and it is still considered a major problem in the US: http://cp.neurology.org...

It may not be as commonly known in the US, but the other western nations seem to know a lot of things about the US that the US people seem to be unaware of.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

Because it isn't a risk to their careers, and it's a lot of tax-free money for very little. Replace MD with politician and drug reps with lobbyist and tell me you can make the same argument with a straight face =P

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Subjectively you might have seen that, but the data don't exactly corroborate that subjective experience. Less than 50% actually improve as a result of these therapies: http://www.researchgate.net...

Furthermore, relapse rates are extremely high with these treatments (e.g., E. G. Peniston and P. J. Kulkosky. Alpha-theta brainwave neurofeedback for vietnam veterans with combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. Medical Psychotherapy, 4(1):47{60, 1991).
That is a slightly old paper, though. I don't have a more recent one on my harddrive and I don't feel like looking it up right now =P

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

The combination of CBT and pharmacological treatments is the most effective and does the most to reduce relapse rates.

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.

What is that method based on? It sounds like it would be alpha-enhancement plus theta-suppression at O1 or Pz.

By the way, there's a thread in the society section of the forums where people are suggesting that we should have trigger warnings and people with PTSD should just "deal with it" when it comes to being triggered. What do you think of this? You should mention something there. http://www.debate.org...

Thanks for the heads-up on that other ridiculous and clueless thread. I responded to it--in spades! LOL--as you suggested.

Good. I'll try to keep up there too.

And yeah, my personal opinion on Trx for PTSD also has been that a combo of CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) AND meds--if needed--offer the best recourse in alleviating the most serious symptoms.

I've been looking into how current state of the art neurofeedback treatments compare with CBT + pharmacological treatment. Some trials has shown that it's better than either alone, but I haven't seen it compared to both together, or what the effects are of all three combined.
Saint_of_Me
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7/8/2015 6:35:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 6:32:43 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:10:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 4:32:34 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:09:07 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:19:26 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Yeah psychiatrists are pretty trigger-happy with the medications =P. In the US, psychiatrists are often paid by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe their medications; something that is illegal in most of the developed work, I think. Plus, it makes their jobs, which are extremely stressful, a lot easier, since they can send someone off with pills instead of spending hours with them and sharing their pain (of course this isn't always the case, since both medication and therapy together are more effective than either alone). I completely understand this, because I don't think I could do what they do. I think I'd be a terrible psychiatrist: "Well go on then, stop just making plans about suicide and keeping everyone edge, take action!". That's a joke, by the way. I've never said that to a suicidal person. Just thought it to myself...

So I know there's a problem with treating PTSD is that therapy, SSRIs and tri-cyclics all have low-response rates, mid to low effect sizes, and poor long-term clinical outcomes. The other issues, which is significant, is that PTSD is so heterogeneous and I haven't seen any method of a prior pairing of treatment option with PTSD subtype, or personalized treatment protocol.

Researchers have found that neurofeedback training for suppressing alpha-band activity from medial parietal EEG can in fact improve connectivity among both the salience network and the default mode network. More importantly, it's had high response rates, effect sizes equal to medication, much lower relapse rates, and long-term efficacy without side-effects in clinical trials.

So my question is whether neurofeedback treatment options have been discussed or considered? Have you heard about this approach?

OK...I have a couple of issues with your post.

ONE...Your claim that it is common for shrinks to get "kickbacks" from Big Pharma for prescribing their meds. This is an uber-popular claim among the general public--especially with folks who are "anti-meds" or "anti-Psychiatry." But the simple truth is that it just does not happen very frequently. I am not saying "never." Although I CAN say that in my college undergrad psych years, including my internship, and all the way through the three different Mental Health Facilities I have worked at, I have never heard of any MD doing this. Or getting caught.

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti-meds" or "anti-psychatry". I'm getting this from university psychologists and psychiatrists from various parts of the world, including the US, who complain about the US system. Legal battles have been fought over this in the US for at least 20 years, probably more, and it is still considered a major problem in the US: http://cp.neurology.org...

It may not be as commonly known in the US, but the other western nations seem to know a lot of things about the US that the US people seem to be unaware of.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

Because it isn't a risk to their careers, and it's a lot of tax-free money for very little. Replace MD with politician and drug reps with lobbyist and tell me you can make the same argument with a straight face =P

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Subjectively you might have seen that, but the data don't exactly corroborate that subjective experience. Less than 50% actually improve as a result of these therapies: http://www.researchgate.net...

Furthermore, relapse rates are extremely high with these treatments (e.g., E. G. Peniston and P. J. Kulkosky. Alpha-theta brainwave neurofeedback for vietnam veterans with combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. Medical Psychotherapy, 4(1):47{60, 1991).
That is a slightly old paper, though. I don't have a more recent one on my harddrive and I don't feel like looking it up right now =P

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

The combination of CBT and pharmacological treatments is the most effective and does the most to reduce relapse rates.

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.

What is that method based on? It sounds like it would be alpha-enhancement plus theta-suppression at O1 or Pz.

By the way, there's a thread in the society section of the forums where people are suggesting that we should have trigger warnings and people with PTSD should just "deal with it" when it comes to being triggered. What do you think of this? You should mention something there. http://www.debate.org...

Thanks for the heads-up on that other ridiculous and clueless thread. I responded to it--in spades! LOL--as you suggested.

Good. I'll try to keep up there too.

And yeah, my personal opinion on Trx for PTSD also has been that a combo of CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) AND meds--if needed--offer the best recourse in alleviating the most serious symptoms.

I've been looking into how current state of the art neurofeedback treatments compare with CBT + pharmacological treatment. Some trials has shown that it's better than either alone, but I haven't seen it compared to both together, or what the effects are of all three combined.

Thanks, man. Here's a quickie link on that CARE method that I believe the VA favors. It is #3 on this list.............http://www.brainandhealth.com...
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Lee001
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7/8/2015 6:46:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 3:23:50 PM, RevNge wrote:
Post

Omg Rev....lolol
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UndeniableReality
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7/8/2015 6:57:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 6:35:06 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:32:43 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:10:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 4:32:34 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti-meds" or "anti-psychatry". I'm getting this from university psychologists and psychiatrists from various parts of the world, including the US, who complain about the US system. Legal battles have been fought over this in the US for at least 20 years, probably more, and it is still considered a major problem in the US: http://cp.neurology.org...

It may not be as commonly known in the US, but the other western nations seem to know a lot of things about the US that the US people seem to be unaware of.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

Because it isn't a risk to their careers, and it's a lot of tax-free money for very little. Replace MD with politician and drug reps with lobbyist and tell me you can make the same argument with a straight face =P

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Subjectively you might have seen that, but the data don't exactly corroborate that subjective experience. Less than 50% actually improve as a result of these therapies: http://www.researchgate.net...

Furthermore, relapse rates are extremely high with these treatments (e.g., E. G. Peniston and P. J. Kulkosky. Alpha-theta brainwave neurofeedback for vietnam veterans with combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. Medical Psychotherapy, 4(1):47{60, 1991).
That is a slightly old paper, though. I don't have a more recent one on my harddrive and I don't feel like looking it up right now =P

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

The combination of CBT and pharmacological treatments is the most effective and does the most to reduce relapse rates.

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.

What is that method based on? It sounds like it would be alpha-enhancement plus theta-suppression at O1 or Pz.

By the way, there's a thread in the society section of the forums where people are suggesting that we should have trigger warnings and people with PTSD should just "deal with it" when it comes to being triggered. What do you think of this? You should mention something there. http://www.debate.org...

Thanks for the heads-up on that other ridiculous and clueless thread. I responded to it--in spades! LOL--as you suggested.

Good. I'll try to keep up there too.

And yeah, my personal opinion on Trx for PTSD also has been that a combo of CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) AND meds--if needed--offer the best recourse in alleviating the most serious symptoms.

I've been looking into how current state of the art neurofeedback treatments compare with CBT + pharmacological treatment. Some trials has shown that it's better than either alone, but I haven't seen it compared to both together, or what the effects are of all three combined.

Thanks, man. Here's a quickie link on that CARE method that I believe the VA favors. It is #3 on this list.............http://www.brainandhealth.com...

Hmm thanks. I was actually on this website last week.

I just want to point out a mistake they made. What they call QEEG is actually called Z-Score Training. QEEG is an umbrella term that would encompass all three methods they're discussing.

The "CARE" method doesn't seem to have much of a theoretical basis. While they don't mention the details and it doesn't show up in the academic literature, it sounds like they're just using a theta-suppression or a theta/delta-suppression protocol (actually, it sounds like they're trying to suppress "spikes" in theta and/or delta frequencies). Maybe some variation of it, but again, the site doesn't give any details and it doesn't show up on PubMed or anything. It doesn't really stand to reason that this would normalize brain activity, whereas Z-Score Training directly aims to do this.

Actually, right before posting this, I checked regular google and CARE might be something sold by Neuroptimal, though I don't see it on their website. Who knows.

Do you know anything specific about how it works?
Saint_of_Me
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7/8/2015 8:06:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 6:57:20 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:35:06 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:32:43 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:10:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/8/2015 4:32:34 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti-meds" or "anti-psychatry". I'm getting this from university psychologists and psychiatrists from various parts of the world, including the US, who complain about the US system. Legal battles have been fought over this in the US for at least 20 years, probably more, and it is still considered a major problem in the US: http://cp.neurology.org...

It may not be as commonly known in the US, but the other western nations seem to know a lot of things about the US that the US people seem to be unaware of.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

Because it isn't a risk to their careers, and it's a lot of tax-free money for very little. Replace MD with politician and drug reps with lobbyist and tell me you can make the same argument with a straight face =P

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Subjectively you might have seen that, but the data don't exactly corroborate that subjective experience. Less than 50% actually improve as a result of these therapies: http://www.researchgate.net...

Furthermore, relapse rates are extremely high with these treatments (e.g., E. G. Peniston and P. J. Kulkosky. Alpha-theta brainwave neurofeedback for vietnam veterans with combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. Medical Psychotherapy, 4(1):47{60, 1991).
That is a slightly old paper, though. I don't have a more recent one on my harddrive and I don't feel like looking it up right now =P

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

The combination of CBT and pharmacological treatments is the most effective and does the most to reduce relapse rates.

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.

What is that method based on? It sounds like it would be alpha-enhancement plus theta-suppression at O1 or Pz.

By the way, there's a thread in the society section of the forums where people are suggesting that we should have trigger warnings and people with PTSD should just "deal with it" when it comes to being triggered. What do you think of this? You should mention something there. http://www.debate.org...

Thanks for the heads-up on that other ridiculous and clueless thread. I responded to it--in spades! LOL--as you suggested.

Good. I'll try to keep up there too.

And yeah, my personal opinion on Trx for PTSD also has been that a combo of CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) AND meds--if needed--offer the best recourse in alleviating the most serious symptoms.

I've been looking into how current state of the art neurofeedback treatments compare with CBT + pharmacological treatment. Some trials has shown that it's better than either alone, but I haven't seen it compared to both together, or what the effects are of all three combined.

Thanks, man. Here's a quickie link on that CARE method that I believe the VA favors. It is #3 on this list.............http://www.brainandhealth.com...

Hmm thanks. I was actually on this website last week.

I just want to point out a mistake they made. What they call QEEG is actually called Z-Score Training. QEEG is an umbrella term that would encompass all three methods they're discussing.

The "CARE" method doesn't seem to have much of a theoretical basis. While they don't mention the details and it doesn't show up in the academic literature, it sounds like they're just using a theta-suppression or a theta/delta-suppression protocol (actually, it sounds like they're trying to suppress "spikes" in theta and/or delta frequencies). Maybe some variation of it, but again, the site doesn't give any details and it doesn't show up on PubMed or anything. It doesn't really stand to reason that this would normalize brain activity, whereas Z-Score Training directly aims to do this.

Actually, right before posting this, I checked regular google and CARE might be something sold by Neuroptimal, though I don't see it on their website. Who knows.

Do you know anything specific about how it works?

Nope, except for what I have already said about it, that is the extent of my knowledge on the topic. As i said, our VA does not provide it. We DO have a class that is a part of the PTSD Program called Bio-Feedback, which simply consists of trying to reduce your HR and pulse, as well as increase your body temp by engaging in meditation/relaxation processes. The Vet is of course hooked-up to the appropriate physiological monitors, so he can see that info.

And the cool part is that they can also track their stats and see how they improve with practice at lowering the physical indicators.
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Saint_of_Me
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7/8/2015 8:15:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti-meds" or "anti-psychatry". I'm getting this from university psychologists and psychiatrists from various parts of the world, including the US, who complain about the US system. Legal battles have been fought over this in the US for at least 20 years, probably more, and it is still considered a major problem in the US: http://cp.neurology.org...

It may not be as commonly known in the US, but the other western nations seem to know a lot of things about the US that the US people seem to be unaware of.

And if you think about it, why would they? They already make good money. Why risk their careers for a few bucks? it just does not make sense. And most of the MDs I have known are not crazy about the Drug reps who come a calling every other week, anyway. They have better things to do. And with the plethora of meds today, many docs rely on a PhD pharmacist on their staff, or their PDR for med advice.

TWO--And "trigger happy" also might be too strong of an adjective in describing the rate at which docs prescribe meds. Yes..it IS quicker ansd easier and cheaper to throw meds at a client than to spend hours actually doing therapy. But it is also proven effective for the most part. I would argue with your claim that meds used for PTSD symptoms provide a "low response rate." I have seen, overall, some pretty good results. Much more so, though, when the meds are combined with therapy.

Subjectively you might have seen that, but the data don't exactly corroborate that subjective experience. Less than 50% actually improve as a result of these therapies: http://www.researchgate.net...

Furthermore, relapse rates are extremely high with these treatments (e.g., E. G. Peniston and P. J. Kulkosky. Alpha-theta brainwave neurofeedback for vietnam veterans with combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. Medical Psychotherapy, 4(1):47{60, 1991).
That is a slightly old paper, though. I don't have a more recent one on my harddrive and I don't feel like looking it up right now =P

Too, anybody seeing a Psychiatrist who wants therapy instead of meds, or the combo of the two, almost always can get this. It's just that the MD Psych does not do it, usually, but rather one of his PhD Psychologists, or MA's on his staff. (Or in VA parlance, on his Team.)

The combination of CBT and pharmacological treatments is the most effective and does the most to reduce relapse rates.

I have seen some good results in Neuro-feedback. Though we do not offer it at my particular VA. Seems like one type of EEG NF that I have seen some good results from is Comprehensive Adaptive Re-normalization of EEG. (we call it CARE). This type helps the client learn to basically "calm down" and prevent "energy" or "activity" (NT) "bursts" in the brain activity. It is especially good for OCD and PTSD. Most often when the latter has symptoms of combat "flashbacks" involved.

What is that method based on? It sounds like it would be alpha-enhancement plus theta-suppression at O1 or Pz.

By the way, there's a thread in the society section of the forums where people are suggesting that we should have trigger warnings and people with PTSD should just "deal with it" when it comes to being triggered. What do you think of this? You should mention something there. http://www.debate.org...

Thanks for the heads-up on that other ridiculous and clueless thread. I responded to it--in spades! LOL--as you suggested.

Good. I'll try to keep up there too.

And yeah, my personal opinion on Trx for PTSD also has been that a combo of CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) AND meds--if needed--offer the best recourse in alleviating the most serious symptoms.

I've been looking into how current state of the art neurofeedback treatments compare with CBT + pharmacological treatment. Some trials has shown that it's better than either alone, but I haven't seen it compared to both together, or what the effects are of all three combined.

Thanks, man. Here's a quickie link on that CARE method that I believe the VA favors. It is #3 on this list.............http://www.brainandhealth.com...

Hmm thanks. I was actually on this website last week.

I just want to point out a mistake they made. What they call QEEG is actually called Z-Score Training. QEEG is an umbrella term that would encompass all three methods they're discussing.

The "CARE" method doesn't seem to have much of a theoretical basis. While they don't mention the details and it doesn't show up in the academic literature, it sounds like they're just using a theta-suppression or a theta/delta-suppression protocol (actually, it sounds like they're trying to suppress "spikes" in theta and/or delta frequencies). Maybe some variation of it, but again, the site doesn't give any details and it doesn't show up on PubMed or anything. It doesn't really stand to reason that this would normalize brain activity, whereas Z-Score Training directly aims to do this.

Actually, right before posting this, I checked regular google and CARE might be something sold by Neuroptimal, though I don't see it on their website. Who knows.

Do you know anything specific about how it works?

Nope, except for what I have already said about it, that is the extent of my knowledge on the topic. As i said, our VA does not provide it. We DO have a class that is a part of the PTSD Program called Bio-Feedback, which simply consists of trying to reduce your HR and pulse, as well as increase your body temp by engaging in meditation/relaxation processes. The Vet is of course hooked-up to the appropriate physiological monitors, so he can see that info.

And the cool part is that they can also track their stats and see how they improve with practice at lowering the physical indicators.

I am missing something here. As you said that despite mt own experience studies show that therapy and meds for PTSD show a low success rate. So I read the link you provided and see this, which would seem to contradict your claim while supporting mine.........
Results suggest that psychother-apy for PTSD leads to a large initial im-provement from baseline. More than half of patients who complete treatment with various forms of cognitive behavior ther-apy or eye movement desensitization and reprocessing improve. Reporting of met-rics other than effect size provides a somewhat more nuanced account of out-come and generalizability. Conclusions: The majority of patients treated with psychotherapy for PTSD in randomized trials recover or improve, rendering these approaches some of the most effective psychosocial treatments devised to date. Several caveats, however, are important in applying these findings to patients treated in the community.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
RevNge
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7/8/2015 9:54:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 6:46:39 PM, Lee001 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:23:50 PM, RevNge wrote:
Post

Omg Rev....lolol

Woops, this wasnt supposed to go in this forum. My bad.
RevNge
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7/8/2015 9:54:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:54:25 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:46:39 PM, Lee001 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:23:50 PM, RevNge wrote:
Post

Omg Rev....lolol

Woops, this wasnt supposed to go in this forum. My bad.

*Wasn't

Stupid apostrophe typo. It's like I'm becuming Hannah.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/8/2015 9:55:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:54:55 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:54:25 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:46:39 PM, Lee001 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:23:50 PM, RevNge wrote:
Post

Omg Rev....lolol

Woops, this wasnt supposed to go in this forum. My bad.

*Wasn't

Stupid apostrophe typo. It's like I'm becuming Hannah.

*Becoming

WTF IS HAPENING
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/8/2015 9:55:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:55:13 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:54:55 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:54:25 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:46:39 PM, Lee001 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:23:50 PM, RevNge wrote:
Post

Omg Rev....lolol

Woops, this wasnt supposed to go in this forum. My bad.

*Wasn't

Stupid apostrophe typo. It's like I'm becuming Hannah.

*Becoming

WTF IS HAPENING

*HAPPENING

GODDAMN THESE TYOPS
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/8/2015 9:55:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:55:37 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:55:13 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:54:55 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:54:25 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 7/8/2015 6:46:39 PM, Lee001 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 3:23:50 PM, RevNge wrote:
Post

Omg Rev....lolol

Woops, this wasnt supposed to go in this forum. My bad.

*Wasn't

Stupid apostrophe typo. It's like I'm becuming Hannah.

*Becoming

WTF IS HAPENING

*HAPPENING

GODDAMN THESE TYOPS

*TYPOS

...
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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7/8/2015 10:04:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 9:20:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Hello all you fellow and sister Vets.

First of all: Thank you for your service!

I work for the Veterans Affairs Department. As part of my Community Outreach I have been authorized to offer to assist any Vets who are thinking of applying for any sort of VA Benefits. This includes anything from health care to possible Disability claims. (Either Service- or Non-Service Connected).

The procedure for applying for this stuff can indeed by rigorous and often confusing.

Think you might be elgible? Questions? Comments? Frustrations? Critiques of our System? Please let me know. I will do my best to help, and if I cannot I can certainly put you in touch with somebody who CAN!

Thanks for your time! And please respond if you are a vet and simply want to chat about any topic related to that.

Drew.

You know, I don't really understand why you're getting all cranky about people that are not vets posting here. We might have questions too, you know.