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Should abortion be legal

lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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10/23/2015 6:29:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 12:14:34 PM, logical-master123 wrote:
In this forum tell why abortion should be legal or not.

Shouldn't this be in the politics forum? I could bullet point his since I really don't have the time to go into much detail, but would love to debate it,
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

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beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/23/2015 9:11:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 12:14:34 PM, logical-master123 wrote:
In this forum tell why abortion should be legal or not.

Abortion should be legal in my view because it is ultimately down to a woman if she wants to go through the process of pregnancy and raising a child. This is a major undertaking effecting the rest of the woman's life. If for whatever reason she does not want to make this commitment it is straightforward logic that an abortion is the best approach. Pregnancy can be accidental and on occasion can occur despite use of contraception, be caused by a sexual assault or can be at one stage desired by a woman but due to a change of situation such as health problems or a break up with the father of the foetus. In my view if the mother does not want the child she should not be forced to give birth to it.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/23/2015 10:30:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not on a whim. The mother should have to make a case for why the abortion is necessary and get her doctor to sign off on it. Inconvenience is not a justification. There should also be a deadline: after a certain gestation time, the mother is deemed to have made her choice, and can only change it in life-threatening circumstances.

Obviously, the morning-after pill is a different matter entirely. If it hasn't implanted yet, then she's not really pregnant.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/23/2015 10:33:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 6:29:24 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 12:14:34 PM, logical-master123 wrote:
In this forum tell why abortion should be legal or not.

Shouldn't this be in the politics forum? I could bullet point his since I really don't have the time to go into much detail, but would love to debate it,

I'm actually sick of abortion politics. Abortion has been legal in most of the West for the last 40 years, and that's not going to change any time soon. It really is more of a personal opinion thing.
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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10/23/2015 10:39:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 10:33:10 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 6:29:24 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 12:14:34 PM, logical-master123 wrote:
In this forum tell why abortion should be legal or not.

Shouldn't this be in the politics forum? I could bullet point his since I really don't have the time to go into much detail, but would love to debate it,

I'm actually sick of abortion politics. Abortion has been legal in most of the West for the last 40 years, and that's not going to change any time soon. It really is more of a personal opinion thing.

The Role of the Governement has been a thing for 300 years, but the Left continues to take us down the Road to Serfdom. So I'm sick of Pinko econ policies.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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SM2
Posts: 546
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10/23/2015 10:42:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 10:39:00 PM, lannan13 wrote:

the Left continues to take us down the Road to Serfdom.

Um... how?

So I'm sick of Pinko econ policies.

What does econ have to do with abortion?
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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10/23/2015 10:59:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 10:42:41 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 10:39:00 PM, lannan13 wrote:

the Left continues to take us down the Road to Serfdom.

Um... how?

So I'm sick of Pinko econ policies.

What does econ have to do with abortion?

I mocked you stating that's a dead issue.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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SM2
Posts: 546
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10/23/2015 11:06:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 10:59:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 10:42:41 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 10:39:00 PM, lannan13 wrote:

the Left continues to take us down the Road to Serfdom.

Um... how?

So I'm sick of Pinko econ policies.

What does econ have to do with abortion?

I mocked you stating that's a dead issue.

You suck at mockery.
lannan13
Posts: 23,016
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10/23/2015 11:12:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 11:06:23 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 10:59:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 10:42:41 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 10:39:00 PM, lannan13 wrote:

the Left continues to take us down the Road to Serfdom.

Um... how?

So I'm sick of Pinko econ policies.

What does econ have to do with abortion?

I mocked you stating that's a dead issue.

You suck at mockery.

Not true, I just showed that something that was an issue throughout human history is still an issue today. You have never been so wrong.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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SM2
Posts: 546
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10/23/2015 11:16:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 11:12:46 PM, lannan13 wrote:

Not true, I just showed that something that was an issue throughout human history is still an issue today.

No you didn't, or we wouldn't still be arguing.

You have never been so wrong.

Then PROVE IT. Insults do not substitute logic.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/23/2015 11:26:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 10:30:33 PM, SM2 wrote:
Not on a whim. The mother should have to make a case for why the abortion is necessary and get her doctor to sign off on it. Inconvenience is not a justification. There should also be a deadline: after a certain gestation time, the mother is deemed to have made her choice, and can only change it in life-threatening circumstances.

Obviously, the morning-after pill is a different matter entirely. If it hasn't implanted yet, then she's not really pregnant.

Personally I think abortion is acceptable in any circumstances. If someone does not want to go through pregnancy, childbirth and raising a child they shouldent have too. Most people dont want to have abortions though. It's very rare. However if someone feels having one is the best option it is a personal decision. No doctor, politician, family member or religious priest should be able to prevent an abortion. They are entitled to offer advice but unless the abortion is life threatening to the woman involved their is no issue with it.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/24/2015 12:01:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 11:26:10 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 10:30:33 PM, SM2 wrote:
Not on a whim. The mother should have to make a case for why the abortion is necessary and get her doctor to sign off on it. Inconvenience is not a justification. There should also be a deadline: after a certain gestation time, the mother is deemed to have made her choice, and can only change it in life-threatening circumstances.

Obviously, the morning-after pill is a different matter entirely. If it hasn't implanted yet, then she's not really pregnant.

Personally I think abortion is acceptable in any circumstances. If someone does not want to go through pregnancy, childbirth and raising a child they shouldent have too. Most people dont want to have abortions though. It's very rare. However if someone feels having one is the best option it is a personal decision. No doctor, politician, family member or religious priest should be able to prevent an abortion. They are entitled to offer advice but unless the abortion is life threatening to the woman involved their is no issue with it.

What about the fetus? Should the fetus be denied a chance at life just because the mother finds the pregnancy inconvenient? That seems a rather flippant approach to take, and one that I cannot endorse. Life is sacred, and should not be ended lightly.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/24/2015 12:05:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 11:26:10 PM, beng100 wrote:


Sorry, I realise I've made a bit of a strawman, so allow me to clarify: not all women who get abortions do so flippantly, but the potential for it still exists. This is why I don't believe that the woman should have the only say in the matter.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/24/2015 12:51:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 12:05:37 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 11:26:10 PM, beng100 wrote:


Sorry, I realise I've made a bit of a strawman, so allow me to clarify: not all women who get abortions do so flippantly, but the potential for it still exists. This is why I don't believe that the woman should have the only say in the matter.

Personally I do not value human life in itself as sacred or special. It is the development of inteligence that leads to human rights. A foetus is less intelligent then a sheep. Why does it deserve special rights? I'm not advocating lots of abortions I just think the choice should exist.
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/24/2015 1:16:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 12:51:56 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 12:05:37 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 11:26:10 PM, beng100 wrote:


Sorry, I realise I've made a bit of a strawman, so allow me to clarify: not all women who get abortions do so flippantly, but the potential for it still exists. This is why I don't believe that the woman should have the only say in the matter.

Personally I do not value human life in itself as sacred or special. It is the development of inteligence that leads to human rights. A foetus is less intelligent then a sheep. Why does it deserve special rights? I'm not advocating lots of abortions I just think the choice should exist.

By that logic, are mentally retarded or stupid people less worthy of human rights than those of average-or-above intelligence? Should a really smart sheep be given more rights than a really dumb human (some sheep are indeed smarter than some people)?
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/24/2015 7:47:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:16:52 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 12:51:56 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 12:05:37 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 10/23/2015 11:26:10 PM, beng100 wrote:


Sorry, I realise I've made a bit of a strawman, so allow me to clarify: not all women who get abortions do so flippantly, but the potential for it still exists. This is why I don't believe that the woman should have the only say in the matter.

Personally I do not value human life in itself as sacred or special. It is the development of inteligence that leads to human rights. A foetus is less intelligent then a sheep. Why does it deserve special rights? I'm not advocating lots of abortions I just think the choice should exist.

By that logic, are mentally retarded or stupid people less worthy of human rights than those of average-or-above intelligence? Should a really smart sheep be given more rights than a really dumb human (some sheep are indeed smarter than some people)?

Im not in favour of mistreatment of any human, but in certain cases of extreme cognitive deficiency through a condition someone is born with, something caused by an accident or something like Alzheimer's then it may be sensebible if the person's family agree to euthanize this person if no chance of improvements exist and this person is completely incapable of realizing their existence, recognizing anybody, knowing their own name etc. Ultimately the comparison to animals makes sense. If a human is less intelligent than an animal that is regularly slaughtered for human consumption I don't see what special meaning its life has. If this individuals family wants to care for and look after them, which is going to be the vast majority of the time fine, no problem. The option should exist that's my position.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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10/24/2015 10:05:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 12:14:34 PM, logical-master123 wrote:
In this forum tell why abortion should be legal or not.

I am happy for abortion to be legal up to a point.

I think it's laughable trying to make abortion equivalent to murder from the moment of conception, the mental gymnastics you have to pull to make that work.

I cut the Pro life/forced continuation pregnancy some slack in later stages when dealing with something that can at least feel pain and or has consciousness. In such cases I don't know if the "right to life/not be killed" necessarily logical entails a woman must be forced to continue with a pregnancy.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
SM2
Posts: 546
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10/24/2015 10:59:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 10:05:45 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 10/23/2015 12:14:34 PM, logical-master123 wrote:
In this forum tell why abortion should be legal or not.

I am happy for abortion to be legal up to a point.

I think it's laughable trying to make abortion equivalent to murder from the moment of conception, the mental gymnastics you have to pull to make that work.

I cut the Pro life/forced continuation pregnancy some slack in later stages when dealing with something that can at least feel pain and or has consciousness. In such cases I don't know if the "right to life/not be killed" necessarily logical entails a woman must be forced to continue with a pregnancy.

If the fetus can't be killed, and isn't viable yet, then the pregnancy cannot be terminated and must continue. In my country, the cut-off for this is 20 weeks gestation, except in life-threatening situations. Performing an abortion past this stage, or procuring one on behalf of somebody else, is a criminal offense with a maximum penalty of 14 years in prison. The woman/girl who receives it is not culpable under this offence.
Briella
Posts: 1
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10/25/2015 4:58:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In my opinion, abortion should be legal with a limitation; and that one, and only limitation is when the woman is raped.
For accidental pregnancies by couples and playful flings, the intercourse is consensual. With that, the man and woman during their intimate moment are most likely aware of the possibility of pregnancy, and they are most likely aware of the responsibility they hold to prevent it by using contraceptives. So if the woman in the relationship gets pregnant after a consensual intercourse, there is no one to blame but themselves. There should be no excuses, and they should have that baby delivered in due time. If their reason for abortion would be financial difficulty in raising the child- there are always foster homes; They can also ask relatives if they could take care of the baby for them; and they can also ask for professional help. They can ask police officers or attorneys as to where they could find a place to have the baby for adoption. There are numbers of options that would be much more convenient than abortion. If their concern, however, would be the hospital bill upon having the child delivered, then it would be their fault, and it should be no one else's problem, but theirs. They knew the possibilities, they knew the risks. Therefore, they should have had been more careful, or they should have never engaged in the intercourse at all. That baby is their responsibility. Having the baby aborted would be similar to buying dirty street ice cream and when realizing that the ice cream is actually dirty, the buyer throws it back to the vendor and even gets mad at him/ her for the ice cream's quality.

Now, if the case is that the couple or the woman participating in the intercourse was drunk, and her partner had gotten her pregnant, abortion should still not be a legal option for them.
"I was drunk, I didn't know what I was doing." then you should have known your limits and you should have avoided getting drunk in the first place. The world is a dangerous place. As feminists say, what they wear shouldn't define them; BUT, it's not like that phrase could avoid the chances of getting cat-called or raped. So yes, if the woman was drunk while she was taken to intercourse, it is her fault because she should have took care of herself. Depressive drinking is another thing, but for mere drunk situations, it shouldn't be an excuse to be able to have the child aborted. "My boyfriend and I was drunk and-" then you should have known your limits as a couple. You should have known the risks and your responsibilities.

Now, these people are grown men and women, and if they state that they weren't aware of the risks of sex, and if they state that they are unaware of the possibilities, then they had practically said themselves that they're stupid.

For rape situations however, I believe that abortion should be an available option for them. Why when I've just stated that foster homes and lots of options are available other than abortion? It's because of the trouble and expenses that the victim will go through. She was impregnated by a man she possibly knew or a man who is a complete stranger, she probably did not do anything so as to trigger the man; and the intercourse could have been brutal for her. And after that experience, she gets pregnant, along with all the difficulty that pregnancy carries? That is something that the victim does not deserve to face, or should atleast have options to escape from. If the raper was caught and was told to pay for the crime just to be able to support the bills that the victim would face, are we 100% certain that he has the money to pay for it? So the victim has to face everything alone, and would have to be a single mother if she decides to have the baby delivered, which will be a trial for her, especially if she's a dependent. Atleast for rape victims, they have the option to abort the baby if they don't have enough money to have it delivered. Also, it would be less trouble for the victim, since she could suffer depression and anxiety.

It's all for justice.
My opinion solely bases on justice, responsibility, and obligation.
So I say abortion should be legal- in certain court situations. :)
UtherPenguin
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10/25/2015 7:22:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Only if the mother's life is legitimately threatened. Adoption is an alternative in any other case.
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