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Thoughts on My Debate Style

bsh1
Posts: 28,165
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11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.
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Wylted
Posts: 23,044
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11/10/2015 12:10:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

I'm not going to give you any advice, your debates are enjoyable to read. Making a debate enjoyable and easily comprehensible is the most important thing. There are other debaters on this site who are considered good, who have a hard time doing those two things.
bsh1
Posts: 28,165
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11/10/2015 12:16:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 12:10:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

I'm not going to give you any advice, your debates are enjoyable to read. Making a debate enjoyable and easily comprehensible is the most important thing. There are other debaters on this site who are considered good, who have a hard time doing those two things.

Thanks, Wylted.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ShabShoral
Posts: 4,004
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11/10/2015 1:18:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

The main thing I noticed about your Animal Rights debate is that you didn't spend that much time defending your framework. You made assumptions such as that fairness is good and that we have a non-arbitrary conception of fairness. I think your case would have been stronger if you spent more time making those components of your case bulletproof, since, if you have an unbeatable framework, you just need one good example of how negating the resolution would be untenable to win the debate.

It certainly was a good debate (and I think you won it completely), but I think that FT could have challenged the framework much more than he actually did.

As an aside, how would you feel about debating Kantian ethics (with me as con)?
I would prefer not to.
Insignifica
Posts: 285
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11/10/2015 1:19:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

If/when I instigate a debate, this is the structure I'm going to use

R1: Rules/Acceptance
R2: Constructive/Whatever
R3: Whatever/Whatever
R4: Whatever/Whatever

Rule 1: No new arguments or rebuttals in the final round.


Examples of excellent, well-balanced debates that have a similar structure:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

No need to regulate everything, mate.
Let the debate flow naturally. Make it easier for both the debaters and the voters to see how things are playing out.
Insignifica
Posts: 285
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11/10/2015 1:51:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

As for the actual substance of your debates, you don't have that much room for improvement. You're very articulate, and while it may feel mechanistic at times, it's still quite effective. Maybe you could include some humor and anecdotes like thett3 does, but it's not really necessary. In terms of technique, I can only think of one thing -- don't lose the forest for the trees. You tend to get caught up in giving as many responses as possible to every single claim made, which just gets kinda confusing unless you provide some way to connect everything into a coherent bigger picture.
thett3
Posts: 15,146
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11/10/2015 3:20:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Cons of your debate style:

-Too structured. Overly structured rounds stifle real development. If your opponent wants to sacrifice characters in his opening case to attack yours those are his characters to do with as he pleases IMO.

-I think you sometimes bring in too many cards. I'd prefer to hear more from you than from some philosopher on the topic

-You debate philosophy--philosophy sux

Pros of your debate style:

-Good writer

-You understand debate/argumentation. Which responses work and which don't, which makes your arguments much more powerful and enjoyable to read.

-I think you're actually really good at framework, much better than I am at it. My frameworks always make sense in my head but when people vote on my debates they almost always tell me it was dumb or irrelevant. Your framework is usually really good
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,693
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11/10/2015 3:38:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 12:10:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

I'm not going to give you any advice, your debates are enjoyable to read. Making a debate enjoyable and easily comprehensible is the most important thing. There are other debaters on this site who are considered good, who have a hard time doing those two things.

+1. I think this a very accurate opinion. :)
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Insignifica
Posts: 285
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11/10/2015 3:50:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 3:20:33 AM, thett3 wrote:

-Too structured. Overly structured rounds stifle real development. If your opponent wants to sacrifice characters in his opening case to attack yours those are his characters to do with as he pleases IMO.

YES

-You debate philosophy--philosophy sux

Nay. I'd rather that he continue doing philosophical debates. His performance in pragmatic debates isn't nearly as strong.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,693
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11/10/2015 3:58:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

Thett accurately describes your biggest flaw: You debate philosophy ;P
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
bsh1
Posts: 28,165
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11/10/2015 12:47:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 3:20:33 AM, thett3 wrote:
-You debate philosophy--philosophy sux

Lol. Thanks for the feedback.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...

Live Debate Challenge: http://www.debate.org...

Summertime Tournament: http://www.debate.org...
Jonbonbon
Posts: 3,041
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11/11/2015 6:46:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 11:51:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I've received some criticisms of my debating style recently. I'd be interested to hear any feedback. Mere insults or jabs are unwelcome, but constructive feedback or commentary would be useful. Pointing out what I do well or (esp.) what I could improve...Thank you.

Just looking at your last debate, I think you're style is great. I like your use of subpoints, your clear headings and coherent arguments that follow.

I actually used to think you were a little evidence heavy (like almost 2 years ago). Like I remember reading a debate where you almost had none of your own words in it. It was like a conglomeration of sources.

I haven't seen you do that since then, but to be fair your debates are usually too intelligent and long for me to keep my attention on them. It's a problem with me, not with you :P

But yeah, looking at your last debate, I saw zero problems on your side, so putting one debate that happened 2 years ago aside, I'd say your style is great.

Maybe people are just picky or too particular :P
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