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Pretty sure I'm a logical positivist now, AMA

ShabShoral
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11/29/2015 11:51:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Shoot
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ShabShoral
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11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
1harderthanyouthink
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11/30/2015 12:19:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So if Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, does that mean that liberals can be prolife, too?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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ShabShoral
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11/30/2015 12:33:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 12:19:08 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So if Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, does that mean that liberals can be prolife, too?

I'm (logically) positive that the answer is objectively yes. That was a phenomenal question - thanks for asking. something something Spinoza.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
ShabShoral
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11/30/2015 6:16:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 2:55:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Explain the significance of logical positivism.

It solved philosophy by removing all idiotic dichotomies, e.g., "noumena vs. phenomena," "ideal vs. real," "world vs. not-world," "transcendence vs. immanence." It also destroyed ethical realism, and nothing of value was lost there.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
dylancatlow
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11/30/2015 6:20:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 6:16:03 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 2:55:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Explain the significance of logical positivism.

It solved philosophy by removing all idiotic dichotomies, e.g., "noumena vs. phenomena," "ideal vs. real," "world vs. not-world," "transcendence vs. immanence." It also destroyed ethical realism, and nothing of value was lost there.

That's it?
ShabShoral
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11/30/2015 6:26:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 6:20:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:16:03 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 2:55:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Explain the significance of logical positivism.

It solved philosophy by removing all idiotic dichotomies, e.g., "noumena vs. phenomena," "ideal vs. real," "world vs. not-world," "transcendence vs. immanence." It also destroyed ethical realism, and nothing of value was lost there.

That's it?

Explain the significance of the CTMU.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
dylancatlow
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11/30/2015 6:27:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 6:26:14 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:20:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:16:03 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 2:55:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Explain the significance of logical positivism.

It solved philosophy by removing all idiotic dichotomies, e.g., "noumena vs. phenomena," "ideal vs. real," "world vs. not-world," "transcendence vs. immanence." It also destroyed ethical realism, and nothing of value was lost there.

That's it?

Explain the significance of the CTMU.

It solved philosophy by removing all idiotic dichotomies, e.g., "noumena vs. phenomena," "ideal vs. real," "world vs. not-world," "transcendence vs. immanence." It also destroyed ethical realism, and nothing of value was lost there.
sdavio
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11/30/2015 4:45:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

What phenomenology have you read? What is your opinion of it?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
ShabShoral
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11/30/2015 6:13:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 4:45:17 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

What phenomenology have you read? What is your opinion of it?

I've read Merleau-Ponty and Sartre (and a very, very insignificant amount of Heidegger, because he can go to hell). I think that the phenomenological approach is fundamentally reducible to the idea that consciousness cannot be transcended, but not in the way the Idealists mean it - the distinction itself becomes invalid, because the concept of a distinction between "the world as I see it" and "the world as I do not see it" presupposes that the latter is even conceivable. This seems entirely compatible with the Tractatus:

5.61 Logic fills the world: the limits of the world are also its limits.
We cannot therefore say in logic: This and this there is in the world, that there is not.

For that would apparently presuppose that we exclude certain possibilities, and this cannot be the case since otherwise logic must get outside the limits of the world: that is, if it could consider these limits from the other side also.

What we cannot think, that we cannot think: we cannot therefore say what we cannot think.

5.62 This remark provides a key to the question, to what extent solipsism is a truth.
In fact what solipsism means, is quite correct, only it cannot be said, but it shows itself.

That the world is my world, shows itself in the fact that the limits of the language (the language which I understand) mean the limits of my world.

5.63 I am the world. (The microcosm.)
5.64 Here we see that solipsism strictly carried out coincides with pure realism. The I in solipsism shrinks to an extensionless point and there remains the reality co-ordinated with it.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
ShabShoral
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11/30/2015 6:15:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 4:45:17 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

What phenomenology have you read? What is your opinion of it?

To actually answer your question, I'm pro for my interpretation of phenomenology, though I do admit that my interpretation doesn't come from what phenomenologists explicitly say, just what I intuit that they really mean.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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11/30/2015 7:37:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 6:15:59 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 4:45:17 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

What phenomenology have you read? What is your opinion of it?

To actually answer your question, I'm pro for my interpretation of phenomenology, though I do admit that my interpretation doesn't come from what phenomenologists explicitly say, just what I intuit that they really mean.

I'm a bit hung over to respond in depth at the moment, but if you ever want to get into Heidegger, Hubert Dreyfus has great talks about him on youtube that are very clear.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
ShabShoral
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11/30/2015 7:43:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 7:37:21 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:15:59 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 4:45:17 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

What phenomenology have you read? What is your opinion of it?

To actually answer your question, I'm pro for my interpretation of phenomenology, though I do admit that my interpretation doesn't come from what phenomenologists explicitly say, just what I intuit that they really mean.

I'm a bit hung over to respond in depth at the moment, but if you ever want to get into Heidegger, Hubert Dreyfus has great talks about him on youtube that are very clear.

I watched one of his talks about Ponty and he spent half the time talking about A.I. for no reason... does he do that often? It was honestly really offputting.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
sdavio
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11/30/2015 7:45:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 7:43:13 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 7:37:21 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:15:59 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 4:45:17 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

What phenomenology have you read? What is your opinion of it?

To actually answer your question, I'm pro for my interpretation of phenomenology, though I do admit that my interpretation doesn't come from what phenomenologists explicitly say, just what I intuit that they really mean.

I'm a bit hung over to respond in depth at the moment, but if you ever want to get into Heidegger, Hubert Dreyfus has great talks about him on youtube that are very clear.

I watched one of his talks about Ponty and he spent half the time talking about A.I. for no reason... does he do that often? It was honestly really offputting.

Pretty much, since that's his main area of interest, and honestly I'm not convinced of his position regarding that. However his explanation of the first part of B&T is probably the clearest in existence without simplifying too much at all.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
dylancatlow
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11/30/2015 8:32:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 6:13:41 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 4:45:17 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

What phenomenology have you read? What is your opinion of it?

but not in the way the Idealists mean it - the distinction itself becomes invalid, because the concept of a distinction between "the world as I see it" and "the world as I do not see it" presupposes that the latter is even conceivable. This seems entirely compatible with the Tractatus:

I'm an idealist and also believe that no meaningful distinction can be made between the mental and "non-mental sides of reality" (since they are both mental, simply as a matter of fact). As soon as you make the distinction, you defeat your own argument. Quite simply, "mental" is intertwined with "meaning", which is obviously intertwined with all meaningful predicates, including reality.
UtherPenguin
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11/30/2015 8:42:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What's with all these funny sounding jargon words. Sounds like Spanish to me. Can someone translate philosophy into English?
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
SamStevens
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11/30/2015 9:08:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/29/2015 11:51:07 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
Shoot

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"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
SamStevens
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11/30/2015 9:09:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/29/2015 11:51:07 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
Shoot

Also, what lead you to logical positivism?
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
ShabShoral
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12/1/2015 12:07:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 9:08:10 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:51:07 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
Shoot

First name: Gabriel

Surname: Don't want to show it on Google - pm me if you really must know for whatever godforsaken reason.

Sex: Yes, please.

Relationship status: Single.

Sexual orientation: Mostly straight I guess. I would have sex with Colin Firth though, no question. I can see the beauty in men, but I wouldn't actually want to have sex with them.

Ethnicity: Half White, half Asian.

Religion: Spinozism.

Position on the creationism-evolution controversy: Evolution is obviously true and creationism is the stupidest origin hypothesis ever.

Most hated religion: http://www.debate.org...

Opinion on human nature: Man is condemned to be free.

Political ideology: Objectivism.

Most hated political ideology: All forms of collectivism.

Preferred form of government: Minimal and voluntarily funded.

Preferred economic system: Laissez-Faire.

City: Port Richey

Country: United States.

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Occupation: Student.

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Anything Paul Simon has done (with the exception of Bridge over Troubled Water - I can't stand that song). I much prefer his solo stuff overall, though. I've cried a lot to these songs:
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Everything by Rush, e.g.,:
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Much Billy Joel, especially Turnstiles. Turnstiles is about as close to a perfect album as one can get.
https://www.youtube.com...

Here's my Spotify profile, if you truly care: https://play.spotify.com...

Favorite TV show: Again, I cannot choose one:
Twin Peaks
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True Detective
Gilmore Girls
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Columbo
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Blue Velvet
Mulholland Drive
Good Will Hunting
Donnie Darko

Favorite quote: Many.
My absolute favourite quote, the reason why I haven't lost all hope in life:
"The formula of our happiness: a Yea, a Nay, a straight line, a goal."

~ Nietzsche

Some others:

"Resting on your laurels is as dangerous as resting when you are walking in the snow. You doze off and die in your sleep."

"A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards; as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push it."

"If life becomes hard to bear we think of a change in our circumstances. But the most important and effective change, a change in our own attitude, hardly even occurs to us, and the resolution to take such a step is very difficult for us."

~ Wittgenstein

"Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent."

"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."

"Do you believe in God, Andrei? No. Neither do I. But that's a favorite question of mine. An upside-down question, you know. What do you mean? Well, if I asked people whether they believed in life, they'd never understand what I meant. It's a bad question. It can mean so much that it really means nothing. So I ask them if they believe in God. And if they say they do"then, I know they don't believe in life. Why? Because, you see, God"whatever anyone chooses to call God"is one's highest conception of the highest possible. And whoever places his highest conception above his own possibility thinks very little of himself and his life. It's a rare gift, you know, to feel reverence for your own life and to want the best, the greatest, the highest possible, here, now, for your very own. To imagine a heaven and then not to dream of it, but to demand it."

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"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
ShabShoral
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12/1/2015 12:08:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2015 9:09:02 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:51:07 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
Shoot

Also, what lead you to logical positivism?

The fact that it's correct.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
ShabShoral
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12/1/2015 12:29:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/1/2015 12:25:51 AM, TheFlex wrote:
How did you come up with the name ShabShoral?

The random name generator in Knights of the Old Republic.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
ShabShoral
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11/22/2016 7:22:59 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/30/2015 6:27:06 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:26:14 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:20:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 11/30/2015 6:16:03 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 11/30/2015 2:55:46 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Explain the significance of logical positivism.

It solved philosophy by removing all idiotic dichotomies, e.g., "noumena vs. phenomena," "ideal vs. real," "world vs. not-world," "transcendence vs. immanence." It also destroyed ethical realism, and nothing of value was lost there.

That's it?

Explain the significance of the CTMU.

It solved philosophy by removing all idiotic dichotomies, e.g., "noumena vs. phenomena," "ideal vs. real," "world vs. not-world," "transcendence vs. immanence." It also destroyed ethical realism, and nothing of value was lost there.

That's it?
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
Fkkize
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11/22/2016 9:08:46 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Has your view changed since then? If so, how?
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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11/22/2016 9:31:58 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/29/2015 11:51:07 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
Shoot

The Vienna Circle has a lot of worthwhile things to say; Wittgenstein as well. Those who oppose logical positivism (especially Carnap's critics) usually have nothing meaningful to say, and they trick (read: delude) themselves into thinking that it's internally inconsistent.
Tsar of DDO
Cermank
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11/22/2016 9:40:45 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

does it hurt, being that nerdy?
ShabShoral
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11/22/2016 9:42:10 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 9:08:46 AM, Fkkize wrote:
Has your view changed since then? If so, how?

Not really, though I'm much more skeptical of phenomenology in general.
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~ Skepsikyma <3

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ShabShoral
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11/22/2016 9:44:59 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 9:31:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:51:07 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
Shoot

The Vienna Circle has a lot of worthwhile things to say; Wittgenstein as well. Those who oppose logical positivism (especially Carnap's critics) usually have nothing meaningful to say, and they trick (read: delude) themselves into thinking that it's internally inconsistent.

Indeed. And logical positivism does literally entail that they have nothing meaningful to say - one reason I'm such a fan.

Carnap in particular is just unable to be dismissed out of hand the way some attempt to. His system was anything but easy to refute; critics must put forth some kind of effort, but they rarely do.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,234
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11/22/2016 9:45:16 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 9:40:45 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 11/29/2015 11:52:30 PM, ShabShoral wrote:
And I think that Phenomenology, Spinozism, Objectivism, and Logical Positivism are totally compatible, so that probably should tell you about how much of a novice at philosophy I am.

does it hurt, being that nerdy?

does it hurt, being that dumb?
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz