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Family is bullsh!t

1harderthanyouthink
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12/22/2015 2:23:14 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
So I've thought about making this thread for like, a year now. But today is the last excuse I needed.

The phrase - "all we have is each other." - is rather restrictive. I was born into a family that openly talks sh!t about me, that emotionally kills me, and is somewhat fear-inducing. I'm more afraid of my "family" than anything. So excuse me for my view on "family".

It's truly meaningless. Your "blood" means about as much as the shoes you wear - it doesn't matter what you get: you deal with the same sh!t (in most cases).

So who the fvck are they to say I'm not mentally mature enough to handle myself? They're the ones that cause me trouble. If they all were gone, what would I care? They obviously don't care, so they can take 10 bullets in the leg and then a knife in the throat and proceed to then burn for eternity in hell. No problem here.

This is the same type of group that most people cherish to have. They love their mothers, and they love their sisters - fvck that. Anyone can fill the role of someone who cares. But why should I give these people more chances?

And before someone pushes the ingrate argument - that I should thank them for bringing me into the world - I would have rather never existed (and they would too) than give them more chances to treat me like I'm a person with feelings.
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1harderthanyouthink
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12/22/2015 2:39:13 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
My mother, frankly, is a two-faced cunt.

She's been talking about me to my brothers for thirty minutes. And she's laughing about me. Fvcking pathetic.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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bsh1
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12/22/2015 2:47:10 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I understand where you're coming from, Chris, but I think this topic needs to be broken down a bit more.

What is "family?" Is it just a group of people to whom you are closely genetically related, or is it a group of people who you love and care about? I think family can mean both of those things. So let's look at our possibilities:

1. Family = Closely Related
2. Family = People you Love
3. Family = Closely Related People whom you Love

Only number 1 can family be described as "bullsh!t." Unfortunately, your situation falls into this category. But in 2/3rds of the options, it's a great thing.

I don't think it is fair, then, to dismiss the whole concept of family, because, for many people, family does have a lot of positive meaning, and blood ties, while not sufficient to really define what a family ought to be, do often encourage the positive emotional ties many of us feel.
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bsh1
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12/22/2015 2:47:50 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:39:13 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
My mother, frankly, is a two-faced cunt.

She's been talking about me to my brothers for thirty minutes. And she's laughing about me. Fvcking pathetic.

*hugs*

Do you want to talk about it? If so...PM me...
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ESocialBookworm
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12/22/2015 3:13:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. I.E. Relationships formed by choice are stronger than those formed by birth."

Family, as Brian said, is a group of people who care and love you.
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1harderthanyouthink
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12/22/2015 3:14:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:13:19 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. I.E. Relationships formed by choice are stronger than those formed by birth."

Family, as Brian said, is a group of people who care and love you.

Meh. Any thing positive about the word is dead to me.
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bsh1
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12/22/2015 3:23:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:14:43 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:13:19 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. I.E. Relationships formed by choice are stronger than those formed by birth."

Family, as Brian said, is a group of people who care and love you.

Meh. Any thing positive about the word is dead to me.

Chris, you have family in Annie, YYW, and I.
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ShabShoral
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12/22/2015 3:23:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:47:10 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I understand where you're coming from, Chris, but I think this topic needs to be broken down a bit more.

What is "family?" Is it just a group of people to whom you are closely genetically related, or is it a group of people who you love and care about? I think family can mean both of those things. So let's look at our possibilities:

1. Family = Closely Related
2. Family = People you Love
3. Family = Closely Related People whom you Love

Only number 1 can family be described as "bullsh!t." Unfortunately, your situation falls into this category. But in 2/3rds of the options, it's a great thing.

I don't think it is fair, then, to dismiss the whole concept of family, because, for many people, family does have a lot of positive meaning, and blood ties, while not sufficient to really define what a family ought to be, do often encourage the positive emotional ties many of us feel.

I don't understand the point of this. The sign he's using to represent "1." doesn't matter - the only relevant thing is what it signifies. If he's using "family" to mean "closely related people", then it doesn't matter if others use the word differently. In the context of this discussion, any definition other than the one being used is irrelevant. Anything else is sophistic equivocation.

You say that you can't "dismiss the whole concept of family" immediately after admitting that the "concept of family" is obviously something very specific in this thread. If "family" means "x", and if "x" must be dismissed, so must "family", without any reference to what "family" decidedly does not mean.
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ShabShoral
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12/22/2015 3:25:24 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I mean, it's literally semantics. It doesn't matter.

@ OP: The idea of "familial obligations" is rooted in the same mental aberrations that give rise to slavery. It's the desire for subjugation, for obligation, for duty. I'm glad you're dismissing it.
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bsh1
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12/22/2015 3:26:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:23:22 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 12/22/2015 2:47:10 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I understand where you're coming from, Chris, but I think this topic needs to be broken down a bit more.

What is "family?" Is it just a group of people to whom you are closely genetically related, or is it a group of people who you love and care about? I think family can mean both of those things. So let's look at our possibilities:

1. Family = Closely Related
2. Family = People you Love
3. Family = Closely Related People whom you Love

Only number 1 can family be described as "bullsh!t." Unfortunately, your situation falls into this category. But in 2/3rds of the options, it's a great thing.

I don't think it is fair, then, to dismiss the whole concept of family, because, for many people, family does have a lot of positive meaning, and blood ties, while not sufficient to really define what a family ought to be, do often encourage the positive emotional ties many of us feel.

I don't understand the point of this. The sign he's using to represent "1." doesn't matter - the only relevant thing is what it signifies. If he's using "family" to mean "closely related people", then it doesn't matter if others use the word differently. In the context of this discussion, any definition other than the one being used is irrelevant. Anything else is sophistic equivocation.

Shab, your responding to my post is sophistic equivocation.

Look, all I wanted to do was to point out that the concept of "family" is not BS for everyone.
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ShabShoral
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12/22/2015 3:30:49 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:26:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Shab, your responding to my post is sophistic equivocation.

Look, all I wanted to do was to point out that the concept of "family" is not BS for everyone.

No, all you're saying is that the word "family" is not BS for everyone. By your own admission, the meanings of the word when used in this thread and when used by some other people are different. This clearly means that there are two completely separate concepts here, and acting as though they're equivalent just because they share a sign is literally the definition of equivocation.
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bsh1
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12/22/2015 3:33:16 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:30:49 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:26:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Shab, your responding to my post is sophistic equivocation.

Look, all I wanted to do was to point out that the concept of "family" is not BS for everyone.

No, all you're saying is that the word "family" is not BS for everyone.

Dear god, do you never realize how utterly pointless these equivocating, nit-picky, and unhelpful rants are?

The word and concept are closely bound together. Discussing one, as far as I care, discusses the other.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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PetersSmith
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12/22/2015 3:34:09 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:23:14 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So I've thought about making this thread for like, a year now. But today is the last excuse I needed.

The phrase - "all we have is each other." - is rather restrictive. I was born into a family that openly talks sh!t about me, that emotionally kills me, and is somewhat fear-inducing. I'm more afraid of my "family" than anything. So excuse me for my view on "family".

It's truly meaningless. Your "blood" means about as much as the shoes you wear - it doesn't matter what you get: you deal with the same sh!t (in most cases).

So who the fvck are they to say I'm not mentally mature enough to handle myself? They're the ones that cause me trouble. If they all were gone, what would I care? They obviously don't care, so they can take 10 bullets in the leg and then a knife in the throat and proceed to then burn for eternity in hell. No problem here.

This is the same type of group that most people cherish to have. They love their mothers, and they love their sisters - fvck that. Anyone can fill the role of someone who cares. But why should I give these people more chances?

And before someone pushes the ingrate argument - that I should thank them for bringing me into the world - I would have rather never existed (and they would too) than give them more chances to treat me like I'm a person with feelings.

You choose your own family.
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ShabShoral
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12/22/2015 3:42:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:33:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:30:49 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:26:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Shab, your responding to my post is sophistic equivocation.

Look, all I wanted to do was to point out that the concept of "family" is not BS for everyone.

No, all you're saying is that the word "family" is not BS for everyone.

Dear god, do you never realize how utterly pointless these equivocating, nit-picky, and unhelpful rants are?
They're definitely not any less useful than your, as shown, blatantly senseless post was.
The word and concept are closely bound together. Discussing one, as far as I care, discusses the other.
That's... not how language works. In language x, "table" might refer to a normal table, while, in language y, "table" refers to a telephone. Are you saying that there's some "shared meaning" behind the words, tying them together across languages?

If you refer to two different things with the same sign and try to claim that they're equivalent or related because of that sign alone, you are equivocating. I'm not pulling this out of thin air - this is exactly what the word "equivocation" means.
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bsh1
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12/22/2015 3:45:27 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:42:32 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:33:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:30:49 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:26:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Shab, your responding to my post is sophistic equivocation.

Look, all I wanted to do was to point out that the concept of "family" is not BS for everyone.

No, all you're saying is that the word "family" is not BS for everyone.

Dear god, do you never realize how utterly pointless these equivocating, nit-picky, and unhelpful rants are?
They're definitely not any less useful than your, as shown, blatantly senseless post was.

Not blatantly senseless, unless your given to your kind of nitpicking.

The word and concept are closely bound together. Discussing one, as far as I care, discusses the other.
That's... not how language works.

Yeah, I am not talking about this anymore. I think Chris knows what I meant, and I think most people will too.
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Wylted
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12/22/2015 1:52:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
How about unconditional love? Do you not want to model that behavior for your children towards family to insure they take care of you in old age, even if they hate you because you drove them to become successful so hard, though they are succesful and owe their success to you
Geogeer
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12/22/2015 3:09:14 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:23:14 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So I've thought about making this thread for like, a year now. But today is the last excuse I needed.

The phrase - "all we have is each other." - is rather restrictive. I was born into a family that openly talks sh!t about me, that emotionally kills me, and is somewhat fear-inducing. I'm more afraid of my "family" than anything. So excuse me for my view on "family".

It's truly meaningless. Your "blood" means about as much as the shoes you wear - it doesn't matter what you get: you deal with the same sh!t (in most cases).

So who the fvck are they to say I'm not mentally mature enough to handle myself? They're the ones that cause me trouble. If they all were gone, what would I care? They obviously don't care, so they can take 10 bullets in the leg and then a knife in the throat and proceed to then burn for eternity in hell. No problem here.

This is the same type of group that most people cherish to have. They love their mothers, and they love their sisters - fvck that. Anyone can fill the role of someone who cares. But why should I give these people more chances?

And before someone pushes the ingrate argument - that I should thank them for bringing me into the world - I would have rather never existed (and they would too) than give them more chances to treat me like I'm a person with feelings.

Well this is tough to comment on as we don't know any particulars...

You don't actually believe it is meaningless. If you did you wouldn't be writing this sorrowful post. The family is meant to be the fundamental unit of society wherein you learn the skills of relationships, self sacrifice and love in a protective environment. You perceive that the unconditional love that should be present is not there.

Now I don't know the particulars of your situation. I do know that teenagers can over-react and not see things as they are (you have all sorts of crap going on inside your brain that won't settle down until you are roughly 25). That being said, I also know that adults forget what it was like at that age and can be unthoughtful and poorly express their love.

Now I would love to say that all parents are good and kind. I can't. They are people with their own weaknesses, insecurities and failings. What I can tell you is that they do love you. Inside you resides their hopes and dreams (even if they forget it or don't express it). So you are faced with a difficult challenge at a young age - to show love more than you are shown love. It is easy for me to say sitting here long away from you, but it is the best advise I can give.
ironslippers
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12/23/2015 8:19:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I easily empathize with your sentiments.
Family allows one to recognize who they don't want to become and who they do want to become, to understand one's own predispostion to certain behaviors, beliefs, psychology, feelings et al.
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
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TheFlex
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12/23/2015 1:44:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:23:14 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So I've thought about making this thread for like, a year now. But today is the last excuse I needed.

The phrase - "all we have is each other." - is rather restrictive. I was born into a family that openly talks sh!t about me, that emotionally kills me, and is somewhat fear-inducing. I'm more afraid of my "family" than anything. So excuse me for my view on "family".

It's truly meaningless. Your "blood" means about as much as the shoes you wear - it doesn't matter what you get: you deal with the same sh!t (in most cases).

So who the fvck are they to say I'm not mentally mature enough to handle myself? They're the ones that cause me trouble. If they all were gone, what would I care? They obviously don't care, so they can take 10 bullets in the leg and then a knife in the throat and proceed to then burn for eternity in hell. No problem here.

This is the same type of group that most people cherish to have. They love their mothers, and they love their sisters - fvck that. Anyone can fill the role of someone who cares. But why should I give these people more chances?

And before someone pushes the ingrate argument - that I should thank them for bringing me into the world - I would have rather never existed (and they would too) than give them more chances to treat me like I'm a person with feelings.

I got family that ain't blood and I got blood that ain't family.

Surround yourself with those you know are "family". You have a great support network. Keep the focus on those that'll uplift you. Shoot a PM to me if you want, I'm more than happy to discuss.
PeacefulChaos
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12/23/2015 7:23:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:23:14 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

This is the same type of group that most people cherish to have. They love their mothers, and they love their sisters - fvck that. Anyone can fill the role of someone who cares. But why should I give these people more chances?

Why "fvck that"?

Because you have had bad experiences with your family, other people are incapable of having strong bonds that you haven't experienced?
1harderthanyouthink
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12/23/2015 10:00:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Because some people fail to read, I'll say a few more things.

Families are not incapable of strong relationships. However, nothing has ever forced families to be close. The idea that families are the core of all people's relationships is stupid, since it's nothing more than a forced relation that can develop into something better or worse, like all people that are met in the course of a life.
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1harderthanyouthink
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12/23/2015 10:03:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
It's also not a "typical overreactive nature of a teen" or some bullsh!t evasion like that. That's all the idea is here - a pathetic evasion.

There's no inherent "protective" environment of the family, and people should stop acting like the there is one.
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And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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12/23/2015 10:04:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
And worst of all, the "they drove you to success".

If anything, my family makes me want to isolate myself for the entirety of my life. Again, there's no "unconditional love" inherent in the family.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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12/23/2015 10:07:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 10:00:33 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Because some people fail to read, I'll say a few more things.

I should say "people fail to read and/or understand".
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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PeacefulChaos
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12/23/2015 10:27:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 10:03:10 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's also not a "typical overreactive nature of a teen" or some bullsh!t evasion like that. That's all the idea is here - a pathetic evasion.

There's no inherent "protective" environment of the family, and people should stop acting like the there is one.

"It's truly meaningless. Your "blood" means about as much as the shoes you wear - it doesn't matter what you get: you deal with the same sh!t (in most cases)."

It is this comment that caused me to reply earlier.

It's not "truly meaningless." It may be for you, but for others it is not. For others, family may be the most important thing in the world to them. Your statements seemed to imply that the family unit has no true meaning, which isn't necessarily true. You established that you realize families have the capacity to develop strong relationships, but you think the family unit is just like any other relationship in the world.

"If love and agreement are manifest in a single family, that family will advance, become illumined and spiritual; but if enmity and hatred exist within it, destruction and dispersion are inevitable."

As for inherent protectiveness in families, I would argue that it definitely exists. Not everyone may experience it, but it is there. A mother often naturally cares for her children, for example. This makes biological sense and is common among mammals. There are also some conflicting opponents, such as siblings fighting, but to say there are no inherent protective qualities of a family would seem to be incorrect in my opinion. After all, the relationship between parents and children is quite different than other relationships. Can they be the same, or can the relationship between parent and child be worse? Yes, but it is inherently different.
Subutai
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12/23/2015 11:52:58 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
You're making a very important point that everyone needs to hear. While it's true that your mother and father are responsible for your birth, they may not raise you the way you need to be raised. In many ways, family can be detrimental to the growth of a child. Often, it is only after breaking away from the family that a child is able to survive adequately in the world.

The desire for a close knit family, like most other emotions, is evolutionary. In prehistoric times, if the family was not a tight unit, some might not trust others, and they wouldn't be able to hunt for food or defend themselves, as those tasks generally required a coordinated group. But today is different. One doesn't need a family to do either of these things.

I support your decision and hope you are better off for making it.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
bballcrook21
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12/24/2015 12:25:02 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:23:14 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So I've thought about making this thread for like, a year now. But today is the last excuse I needed.

The phrase - "all we have is each other." - is rather restrictive. I was born into a family that openly talks sh!t about me, that emotionally kills me, and is somewhat fear-inducing. I'm more afraid of my "family" than anything. So excuse me for my view on "family".

It's truly meaningless. Your "blood" means about as much as the shoes you wear - it doesn't matter what you get: you deal with the same sh!t (in most cases).

So who the fvck are they to say I'm not mentally mature enough to handle myself? They're the ones that cause me trouble. If they all were gone, what would I care? They obviously don't care, so they can take 10 bullets in the leg and then a knife in the throat and proceed to then burn for eternity in hell. No problem here.

This is the same type of group that most people cherish to have. They love their mothers, and they love their sisters - fvck that. Anyone can fill the role of someone who cares. But why should I give these people more chances?

And before someone pushes the ingrate argument - that I should thank them for bringing me into the world - I would have rather never existed (and they would too) than give them more chances to treat me like I'm a person with feelings.

I would offer you my solution, since I have a very minor version of what you have, but the solution wouldn't attune to such a dire situation.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
1harderthanyouthink
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12/25/2015 2:48:42 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:39:13 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
My mother, frankly, is a two-faced cunt.

She's been talking about me to my brothers for thirty minutes. And she's laughing about me. Fvcking pathetic.

So it's been a few days, and I'm in my room, and she's in the one next to it - the door is open and she is still talking about me. What the honest fvck...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
sadolite
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12/25/2015 3:11:04 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
There is always two sides to every story "Yours and that ahole"
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
1harderthanyouthink
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12/25/2015 3:29:12 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/25/2015 3:11:04 AM, sadolite wrote:
There is always two sides to every story "Yours and that ahole"

That's easy to say from the outside.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King