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Giving life meaning

1harderthanyouthink
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4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I'm an existential nihilist who is apathetic about most things in life, and I'm turned off by most normal things. I view society as something that just makes barriers to happiness. Society's view of what gives people meaning is bullsh!t, in my opinion.

All of these are bullsh!t:

School as it is conducted today:

We have great thinking capacities, and we waste it in school. I have learned more away from school, and this is where the problem is: from 6 AM to 2:30 PM, I am either getting ready for school, am in school, or am going home. This eats up more than a third of my day, when I could be learning. I don't care about some curriculum director's view of the writing intricacies of Shakespeare when I could be researching world problems. So I am left with 15 hours and 30 minutes to do whatever I want. The problem is that humans sleep. I sleep, on average, 1 to 4 hours a day.

So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.

9 to 5 work:

This is what I'm supposed to look forward to. After spending my teen years in school and then 4 years entrenching myself in heavy debt I'm supposed to suit up and do a job I presumably don't really like doing. Every day. And then I'll get home after a commute, and be exhausted. And I'll do that for 45 years. Then I'll die 10-20 years later as I run out of money, as my body and mind deteriorates.

What a life.

The importance of family

"The blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb" - so why does society put any emphasis on this forced relationship?

Giving a sh!t in general

Life sucks - if you follow the normal life. If you give a sh!t about what they tell you to give a sh!t about, you will waste most of your life.

---

So frankly, I think most things are useless, and we should try to be happy any way we can make ourselves happy. This is the one chance we get at life - so I don't understand why people waste it on things they don't like.

So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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RyuuKyuzo
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4/6/2016 1:02:20 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I don't miss being a teenager.

Life gets better, don't be so quick to write it all off just yet.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Raisor
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4/6/2016 1:17:27 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:02:20 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I don't miss being a teenager.

Life gets better, don't be so quick to write it all off just yet.

I miss being a 19-Ager...

But idk the working world can be a real grind. It isn't for everyone.

I would say that you can do whatever you want in life. You don't have to have a family or work a 9 to 5. You could become a consultant and have an 8 to midnight, or a bartender and work weird hours. You could pack all your crap into a car and drive to LA and just see what you need to do to make it. Probably won't be as fun as it sounds but I've met people who have done it. There are a lot of different ways to live your life, seek out new experiences as much as you can.
Sapphique
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4/6/2016 1:18:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.
Are there any school subjects you do enjoy?
9 to 5 work:
What kind of career would you like to pursue? If you do something you enjoy, I don't think it would feel quite as burdensome as it otherwise might.
So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?
The people I care about--my family, a few select friends who are close enough they might as well be family, other friends who I enjoy interacting with.
The things I like doing--reading books, playing violin, listening to music, playing mafia, eating good food, etc
A desire to improve myself--academically, musically, as a person...the list goes on.

I don't know how you manage to survive on 1-4 hours of sleep :/ I'm getting about 4-5 right now and I always feel so dead in the mornings =.=
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
RyuuKyuzo
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4/6/2016 1:23:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:17:27 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:02:20 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I don't miss being a teenager.

Life gets better, don't be so quick to write it all off just yet.

I miss being a 19-Ager...

But idk the working world can be a real grind. It isn't for everyone.

I would say that you can do whatever you want in life. You don't have to have a family or work a 9 to 5. You could become a consultant and have an 8 to midnight, or a bartender and work weird hours. You could pack all your crap into a car and drive to LA and just see what you need to do to make it. Probably won't be as fun as it sounds but I've met people who have done it. There are a lot of different ways to live your life, seek out new experiences as much as you can.

I don't. 19 was the worst year of my life. 17 was pretty awful, too. Every year since I turned 20 has been the new best year of my life.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Raisor
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4/6/2016 1:43:23 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:23:49 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:17:27 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:02:20 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I don't miss being a teenager.

Life gets better, don't be so quick to write it all off just yet.

I miss being a 19-Ager...

But idk the working world can be a real grind. It isn't for everyone.

I would say that you can do whatever you want in life. You don't have to have a family or work a 9 to 5. You could become a consultant and have an 8 to midnight, or a bartender and work weird hours. You could pack all your crap into a car and drive to LA and just see what you need to do to make it. Probably won't be as fun as it sounds but I've met people who have done it. There are a lot of different ways to live your life, seek out new experiences as much as you can.

I don't. 19 was the worst year of my life. 17 was pretty awful, too. Every year since I turned 20 has been the new best year of my life.

Are you still in school? I would say 19-21 have definitely been the best for me in terms of day to day living.

I have done a lot of fun stuff since graduating college, but life is a lot more stressful day to day.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,289
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4/6/2016 2:00:09 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm an existential nihilist who is apathetic about most things in life, and I'm turned off by most normal things. I view society as something that just makes barriers to happiness. Society's view of what gives people meaning is bullsh!t, in my opinion.

All of these are bullsh!t:

School as it is conducted today:

We have great thinking capacities, and we waste it in school. I have learned more away from school, and this is where the problem is: from 6 AM to 2:30 PM, I am either getting ready for school, am in school, or am going home. This eats up more than a third of my day, when I could be learning. I don't care about some curriculum director's view of the writing intricacies of Shakespeare when I could be researching world problems. So I am left with 15 hours and 30 minutes to do whatever I want. The problem is that humans sleep. I sleep, on average, 1 to 4 hours a day.

So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.

9 to 5 work:

This is what I'm supposed to look forward to. After spending my teen years in school and then 4 years entrenching myself in heavy debt I'm supposed to suit up and do a job I presumably don't really like doing. Every day. And then I'll get home after a commute, and be exhausted. And I'll do that for 45 years. Then I'll die 10-20 years later as I run out of money, as my body and mind deteriorates.

What a life.

The importance of family

"The blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb" - so why does society put any emphasis on this forced relationship?

Giving a sh!t in general

Life sucks - if you follow the normal life. If you give a sh!t about what they tell you to give a sh!t about, you will waste most of your life.

---

So frankly, I think most things are useless, and we should try to be happy any way we can make ourselves happy. This is the one chance we get at life - so I don't understand why people waste it on things they don't like.

So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

Life doesn't have meaning, we just live it as best we can.

'But it may be that you have fallen upon some phase of life which is difficult, and that, before you are aware, your public or your private fortune has you fastened in a noose which you can neither burst nor untie. But reflect that it is only at first that prisoners are worried by the burdens and shackles upon their legs; later, when they have determined not to chafe against them, but to endure them, necessity teaches them to bear them bravely, habit to bear them easily. In any sort of life you will find that there are amusements and relaxations and pleasures, if you are willing to consider your evils lightly rather than to make them hateful. On no score has Nature more deserved our thanks, who, since she knew to what sorrows we were born, invented habit as an alleviation for disasters, and thus quickly accustoms us to the most serious ills. No one could endure adversity if, while it continued, it kept the same violence that its first blows had.

All of us are chained to Fortune. Some are bound by a loose and golden chain, others by a tight chain of baser metal; but what difference does it make? The same captivity holds all men in its toils, those who have bound others have also been bound -- unless perhaps you think that a chain on the left hand is a lighter one. Some are chained by public office, others by wealth; some carry the burden of high birth, some of low birth; some bow beneath another's empire, some beneath their own; some are kept in one place by exile, others by priesthoods. All life is a servitude. And so a man must become reconciled to his lot, must complain of it as little as possible, and must lay hold of whatever good it may have; no state is so bitter that a calm mind cannot find in it some consolation. Even small spaces by skillful planning often reveal many uses; and arrangement will make habitable a place of ever so small dimensions. Apply reason to difficulties; it is possible to soften what is hard, to widen what is narrow, and burdens will press less heavily upon those who bear them skillfully.

Moreover, we must not send our desires upon a distant quest, but we should permit them to have access to what is near, since they do not endure to be shut up altogether. Leaving those things that either cannot be done, or can be done only with difficulty, let us pursue what lies near at hand and allures our hope, but let us be aware that they all are equally trivial, diverse outwardly in appearance, within alike vain. And let us not envy those who stand in higher places; where there appeared heights, there are precipices. Those, on the other hand, whom an unkind lot has placed in a critical position, will be safer by reducing their pride in the things that are in themselves proud and lowering their fortune, so far as they shall be able, to the common level. While there are many who must necessarily cling to their pinnacle, from which they cannot descend without falling, yet they may bear witness that their greatest burden is the very fact that they are forced to be burdensome to others, being not lifted, but nailed on high.'
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca, De Tranquillitate Animi -
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
The-Voice-of-Truth
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4/6/2016 2:10:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:18:08 AM, Sapphique wrote:
I don't know how you manage to survive on 1-4 hours of sleep :/ I'm getting about 4-5 right now and I always feel so dead in the mornings =.=

Night owls 4 dayz. Get on our level, scrub.
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
Vaarka
Posts: 7,655
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4/6/2016 2:11:54 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm an existential nihilist who is apathetic about most things in life, and I'm turned off by most normal things. I view society as something that just makes barriers to happiness. Society's view of what gives people meaning is bullsh!t, in my opinion.

All of these are bullsh!t:

School as it is conducted today:

We have great thinking capacities, and we waste it in school. I have learned more away from school, and this is where the problem is: from 6 AM to 2:30 PM, I am either getting ready for school, am in school, or am going home. This eats up more than a third of my day, when I could be learning. I don't care about some curriculum director's view of the writing intricacies of Shakespeare when I could be researching world problems. So I am left with 15 hours and 30 minutes to do whatever I want. The problem is that humans sleep. I sleep, on average, 1 to 4 hours a day.

So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.

9 to 5 work:

This is what I'm supposed to look forward to. After spending my teen years in school and then 4 years entrenching myself in heavy debt I'm supposed to suit up and do a job I presumably don't really like doing. Every day. And then I'll get home after a commute, and be exhausted. And I'll do that for 45 years. Then I'll die 10-20 years later as I run out of money, as my body and mind deteriorates.

What a life.

The importance of family

"The blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb" - so why does society put any emphasis on this forced relationship?

Giving a sh!t in general

Life sucks - if you follow the normal life. If you give a sh!t about what they tell you to give a sh!t about, you will waste most of your life.

---

So frankly, I think most things are useless, and we should try to be happy any way we can make ourselves happy. This is the one chance we get at life - so I don't understand why people waste it on things they don't like.

So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

I can't answer it for you or anything, and possibly not quite accurately for myself, but I feel like the bonds and relationships we make in life, as well as some of the things we do, can give some meaning.

For me, I have a good handful of friends, some of which are close friends, 3 of which I consider best friends (YEH VALKRIN). Being able to spend time with these friends, have fun, and enjoy life while we can is part of how I give my life meaning. Of course, I also give my life meaning with all the music I listen to, and the goals I set for myself. Some day, I want to make music. Some day, I want to be a pro osu! player. Some day, I want to run a marathon. Some day, I'd like to get into college. Some day, I'd like to marry someone. Some day, I'd like to blah blah blah. Being the optimist that I am, life is full of meaning.

Of course, life may not be exciting, thrilling, or what we want, but we still live it. Some day, it should improve. And while we're young, we should enjoy it. After all, you can't be 20 on sugar mountain.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
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breakingamber
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4/6/2016 2:12:14 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
The problem with life is that Communism rules the world.
Say we have 3 groups of people, Group A, Group B, and Group C.
In this world, Group A is the upper class, Group B is the middle class, and Group C is the lower class.

As far as we know, A is generally happier than B which is happier than C.

If Group B wants to be as happy as Group A, someone has to do the hard work, whether it's growing food or working the nuclear power plant. Group C currently does the farming, and Group B does the working.

If Group B revolts and starts a life of luxury, either Group C will have to fill in Group B and their own job, there will be no electricity, or Group C will also revolt. In all these scenarios, no one is happy.

So, everyone in a group has to be moderately happy.
MAY THE WRATH OF THE MODS BE UPON YOU!
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"When will [Obliteration] learn that Funtimes' plan of saving/destroying the world with pancakes is the only way? "
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Raisor
Posts: 4,468
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4/6/2016 2:31:33 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:00:09 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm an existential nihilist who is apathetic about most things in life, and I'm turned off by most normal things. I view society as something that just makes barriers to happiness. Society's view of what gives people meaning is bullsh!t, in my opinion.

All of these are bullsh!t:

School as it is conducted today:

We have great thinking capacities, and we waste it in school. I have learned more away from school, and this is where the problem is: from 6 AM to 2:30 PM, I am either getting ready for school, am in school, or am going home. This eats up more than a third of my day, when I could be learning. I don't care about some curriculum director's view of the writing intricacies of Shakespeare when I could be researching world problems. So I am left with 15 hours and 30 minutes to do whatever I want. The problem is that humans sleep. I sleep, on average, 1 to 4 hours a day.

So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.

9 to 5 work:

This is what I'm supposed to look forward to. After spending my teen years in school and then 4 years entrenching myself in heavy debt I'm supposed to suit up and do a job I presumably don't really like doing. Every day. And then I'll get home after a commute, and be exhausted. And I'll do that for 45 years. Then I'll die 10-20 years later as I run out of money, as my body and mind deteriorates.

What a life.

The importance of family

"The blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb" - so why does society put any emphasis on this forced relationship?

Giving a sh!t in general

Life sucks - if you follow the normal life. If you give a sh!t about what they tell you to give a sh!t about, you will waste most of your life.

---

So frankly, I think most things are useless, and we should try to be happy any way we can make ourselves happy. This is the one chance we get at life - so I don't understand why people waste it on things they don't like.

So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

Life doesn't have meaning, we just live it as best we can.

'But it may be that you have fallen upon some phase of life which is difficult, and that, before you are aware, your public or your private fortune has you fastened in a noose which you can neither burst nor untie. But reflect that it is only at first that prisoners are worried by the burdens and shackles upon their legs; later, when they have determined not to chafe against them, but to endure them, necessity teaches them to bear them bravely, habit to bear them easily. In any sort of life you will find that there are amusements and relaxations and pleasures, if you are willing to consider your evils lightly rather than to make them hateful. On no score has Nature more deserved our thanks, who, since she knew to what sorrows we were born, invented habit as an alleviation for disasters, and thus quickly accustoms us to the most serious ills. No one could endure adversity if, while it continued, it kept the same violence that its first blows had.

All of us are chained to Fortune. Some are bound by a loose and golden chain, others by a tight chain of baser metal; but what difference does it make? The same captivity holds all men in its toils, those who have bound others have also been bound -- unless perhaps you think that a chain on the left hand is a lighter one. Some are chained by public office, others by wealth; some carry the burden of high birth, some of low birth; some bow beneath another's empire, some beneath their own; some are kept in one place by exile, others by priesthoods. All life is a servitude. And so a man must become reconciled to his lot, must complain of it as little as possible, and must lay hold of whatever good it may have; no state is so bitter that a calm mind cannot find in it some consolation. Even small spaces by skillful planning often reveal many uses; and arrangement will make habitable a place of ever so small dimensions. Apply reason to difficulties; it is possible to soften what is hard, to widen what is narrow, and burdens will press less heavily upon those who bear them skillfully.

Moreover, we must not send our desires upon a distant quest, but we should permit them to have access to what is near, since they do not endure to be shut up altogether. Leaving those things that either cannot be done, or can be done only with difficulty, let us pursue what lies near at hand and allures our hope, but let us be aware that they all are equally trivial, diverse outwardly in appearance, within alike vain. And let us not envy those who stand in higher places; where there appeared heights, there are precipices. Those, on the other hand, whom an unkind lot has placed in a critical position, will be safer by reducing their pride in the things that are in themselves proud and lowering their fortune, so far as they shall be able, to the common level. While there are many who must necessarily cling to their pinnacle, from which they cannot descend without falling, yet they may bear witness that their greatest burden is the very fact that they are forced to be burdensome to others, being not lifted, but nailed on high.'
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca, De Tranquillitate Animi -

Seneca was a hypocrite, I have a hard time finding him compelling.

I am always skeptical of people who are rich and in power that bemoan the burden of being rich and in power while extolling the virtue of simplicity and freedom from luxury.
illegalcombat
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4/6/2016 2:35:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm an existential nihilist who is apathetic about most things in life, and I'm turned off by most normal things. I view society as something that just makes barriers to happiness. Society's view of what gives people meaning is bullsh!t, in my opinion.

All of these are bullsh!t:

School as it is conducted today:

We have great thinking capacities, and we waste it in school. I have learned more away from school, and this is where the problem is: from 6 AM to 2:30 PM, I am either getting ready for school, am in school, or am going home. This eats up more than a third of my day, when I could be learning. I don't care about some curriculum director's view of the writing intricacies of Shakespeare when I could be researching world problems. So I am left with 15 hours and 30 minutes to do whatever I want. The problem is that humans sleep. I sleep, on average, 1 to 4 hours a day.

So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.


9 to 5 work:

This is what I'm supposed to look forward to. After spending my teen years in school and then 4 years entrenching myself in heavy debt I'm supposed to suit up and do a job I presumably don't really like doing. Every day. And then I'll get home after a commute, and be exhausted. And I'll do that for 45 years. Then I'll die 10-20 years later as I run out of money, as my body and mind deteriorates.

What a life.

Congrats, you figured out what people call "life" isn't really "life" at all. It's an existence, at best.


The importance of family

"The blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb" - so why does society put any emphasis on this forced relationship?

Byproduct of our evolutionary path.


Giving a sh!t in general

Life sucks - if you follow the normal life. If you give a sh!t about what they tell you to give a sh!t about, you will waste most of your life.


---

So frankly, I think most things are useless, and we should try to be happy any way we can make ourselves happy. This is the one chance we get at life - so I don't understand why people waste it on things they don't like.

Cause circumstances are such, that they don't really get a choice.


So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

I was was much older than you when I figured out the various bullsh*t you alluded too, I'am so proud of you.

Suffice to say you have now gone beyond the world as it is presented to you, seeing the world as it is. It only gets darker from here, how far down the rabbit hole do you go ?
Sapphique
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4/6/2016 2:38:48 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:10:42 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:18:08 AM, Sapphique wrote:
I don't know how you manage to survive on 1-4 hours of sleep :/ I'm getting about 4-5 right now and I always feel so dead in the mornings =.=

Night owls 4 dayz. Get on our level, scrub.

How much sleep do you get?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,289
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4/6/2016 2:39:01 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:31:33 AM, Raisor wrote:

Seneca was a hypocrite, I have a hard time finding him compelling.

I am always skeptical of people who are rich and in power that bemoan the burden of being rich and in power while extolling the virtue of simplicity and freedom from luxury.

I think he kind of proved his point when he, due to his high position, was forced to bleed himself out at the command of a paranoid Nero. And he wasn't a hypocrite at all; he never said that it was beneficial to give up wealth and power if you were born into it. He never claimed that freedom from luxury was a virtue either. He was a Stoic; you were given a lot in life, and you tolerated it as best you could through the practice and cultivation of virtue.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Raisor
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4/6/2016 3:01:35 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:39:01 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:31:33 AM, Raisor wrote:

Seneca was a hypocrite, I have a hard time finding him compelling.

I am always skeptical of people who are rich and in power that bemoan the burden of being rich and in power while extolling the virtue of simplicity and freedom from luxury.

I think he kind of proved his point when he, due to his high position, was forced to bleed himself out at the command of a paranoid Nero. And he wasn't a hypocrite at all; he never said that it was beneficial to give up wealth and power if you were born into it. He never claimed that freedom from luxury was a virtue either. He was a Stoic; you were given a lot in life, and you tolerated it as best you could through the practice and cultivation of virtue.

Mm I'm not about to see if I have any Seneca on my shelf, but I recall him condemning aspirations to wealth and the desire for material comforts. I might dig into this more concretely tomorrow, but on the face of it writing about the virtue of tolerating all the ills of life without yearning for life's pleasures is a hypocritical thing to do while pursuing wealth and luxury.

I also don't think Seneca was born into wealth? I thought he was more of a courtier that gained favor with Nero.
Skepsikyma
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4/6/2016 3:13:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:01:35 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:39:01 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:31:33 AM, Raisor wrote:

Seneca was a hypocrite, I have a hard time finding him compelling.

I am always skeptical of people who are rich and in power that bemoan the burden of being rich and in power while extolling the virtue of simplicity and freedom from luxury.

I think he kind of proved his point when he, due to his high position, was forced to bleed himself out at the command of a paranoid Nero. And he wasn't a hypocrite at all; he never said that it was beneficial to give up wealth and power if you were born into it. He never claimed that freedom from luxury was a virtue either. He was a Stoic; you were given a lot in life, and you tolerated it as best you could through the practice and cultivation of virtue.

Mm I'm not about to see if I have any Seneca on my shelf, but I recall him condemning aspirations to wealth and the desire for material comforts. I might dig into this more concretely tomorrow, but on the face of it writing about the virtue of tolerating all the ills of life without yearning for life's pleasures is a hypocritical thing to do while pursuing wealth and luxury.

I think that he most often said to learn to bear gracefully the hand which life dealt you.

I also don't think Seneca was born into wealth? I thought he was more of a courtier that gained favor with Nero.

His father was a wealthy equestrian, and Seneca was Nero's tutor. He often tried to teach him that power came with restrictions and responsibilities, which didn't make him very popular, and that era has a lot of conflicting historical accounts, with Nero's various advisors slinging mud at one another in an attempt to discredit the opposition. It culminated with Seneca being forced to kill himself for being (most historians agree) falsely accused of conspiring against Nero. Some of those accounts survive, which are often not flattering, but their accuracy is questionable at best. Nero was also polarizing for centuries after his death; he didn't receive any sort of widespread adulation for centuries, but rather had camps of detractors and admirers who disagreed about the nature of the man.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Raisor
Posts: 4,468
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4/6/2016 3:24:35 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:13:29 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/6/2016 3:01:35 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:39:01 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:31:33 AM, Raisor wrote:

Seneca was a hypocrite, I have a hard time finding him compelling.

I am always skeptical of people who are rich and in power that bemoan the burden of being rich and in power while extolling the virtue of simplicity and freedom from luxury.

I think he kind of proved his point when he, due to his high position, was forced to bleed himself out at the command of a paranoid Nero. And he wasn't a hypocrite at all; he never said that it was beneficial to give up wealth and power if you were born into it. He never claimed that freedom from luxury was a virtue either. He was a Stoic; you were given a lot in life, and you tolerated it as best you could through the practice and cultivation of virtue.

Mm I'm not about to see if I have any Seneca on my shelf, but I recall him condemning aspirations to wealth and the desire for material comforts. I might dig into this more concretely tomorrow, but on the face of it writing about the virtue of tolerating all the ills of life without yearning for life's pleasures is a hypocritical thing to do while pursuing wealth and luxury.

I think that he most often said to learn to bear gracefully the hand which life dealt you.

I also don't think Seneca was born into wealth? I thought he was more of a courtier that gained favor with Nero.

His father was a wealthy equestrian, and Seneca was Nero's tutor. He often tried to teach him that power came with restrictions and responsibilities, which didn't make him very popular, and that era has a lot of conflicting historical accounts, with Nero's various advisors slinging mud at one another in an attempt to discredit the opposition. It culminated with Seneca being forced to kill himself for being (most historians agree) falsely accused of conspiring against Nero. Some of those accounts survive, which are often not flattering, but their accuracy is questionable at best. Nero was also polarizing for centuries after his death; he didn't receive any sort of widespread adulation for centuries, but rather had camps of detractors and admirers who disagreed about the nature of the man.

I've read a little bit about the possibility that most of neros infamy came from posthumous political detractors, but I don't think that impacts my point.

I am not incredibly familiar with roman history but this might be an interesting debate to do- whether seneca was a hypocrite or not
Skepsikyma
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4/6/2016 3:35:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:24:35 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/6/2016 3:13:29 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/6/2016 3:01:35 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:39:01 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:31:33 AM, Raisor wrote:

Seneca was a hypocrite, I have a hard time finding him compelling.

I am always skeptical of people who are rich and in power that bemoan the burden of being rich and in power while extolling the virtue of simplicity and freedom from luxury.

I think he kind of proved his point when he, due to his high position, was forced to bleed himself out at the command of a paranoid Nero. And he wasn't a hypocrite at all; he never said that it was beneficial to give up wealth and power if you were born into it. He never claimed that freedom from luxury was a virtue either. He was a Stoic; you were given a lot in life, and you tolerated it as best you could through the practice and cultivation of virtue.

Mm I'm not about to see if I have any Seneca on my shelf, but I recall him condemning aspirations to wealth and the desire for material comforts. I might dig into this more concretely tomorrow, but on the face of it writing about the virtue of tolerating all the ills of life without yearning for life's pleasures is a hypocritical thing to do while pursuing wealth and luxury.

I think that he most often said to learn to bear gracefully the hand which life dealt you.

I also don't think Seneca was born into wealth? I thought he was more of a courtier that gained favor with Nero.

His father was a wealthy equestrian, and Seneca was Nero's tutor. He often tried to teach him that power came with restrictions and responsibilities, which didn't make him very popular, and that era has a lot of conflicting historical accounts, with Nero's various advisors slinging mud at one another in an attempt to discredit the opposition. It culminated with Seneca being forced to kill himself for being (most historians agree) falsely accused of conspiring against Nero. Some of those accounts survive, which are often not flattering, but their accuracy is questionable at best. Nero was also polarizing for centuries after his death; he didn't receive any sort of widespread adulation for centuries, but rather had camps of detractors and admirers who disagreed about the nature of the man.

I've read a little bit about the possibility that most of neros infamy came from posthumous political detractors, but I don't think that impacts my point.

I was talking about Seneca, not Nero. It'd be sort of like imagining that all that survived on Hillary Clinton was Republican attack ads and her own books, and to then try to construct a historical narrative based on that centuries later.

I am not incredibly familiar with roman history but this might be an interesting debate to do- whether seneca was a hypocrite or not

It's a hard debate to do; the sources for that period are fubar, with even historians a generation later being leery of available sources and prevailing narratives.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Hoppi
Posts: 1,655
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4/6/2016 5:17:17 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm an existential nihilist who is apathetic about most things in life, and I'm turned off by most normal things. I view society as something that just makes barriers to happiness. Society's view of what gives people meaning is bullsh!t, in my opinion.

All of these are bullsh!t:

School as it is conducted today:

We have great thinking capacities, and we waste it in school. I have learned more away from school, and this is where the problem is: from 6 AM to 2:30 PM, I am either getting ready for school, am in school, or am going home. This eats up more than a third of my day, when I could be learning. I don't care about some curriculum director's view of the writing intricacies of Shakespeare when I could be researching world problems. So I am left with 15 hours and 30 minutes to do whatever I want. The problem is that humans sleep. I sleep, on average, 1 to 4 hours a day.

So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.

9 to 5 work:

This is what I'm supposed to look forward to. After spending my teen years in school and then 4 years entrenching myself in heavy debt I'm supposed to suit up and do a job I presumably don't really like doing. Every day. And then I'll get home after a commute, and be exhausted. And I'll do that for 45 years. Then I'll die 10-20 years later as I run out of money, as my body and mind deteriorates.

What a life.

The importance of family

"The blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb" - so why does society put any emphasis on this forced relationship?

Giving a sh!t in general

Life sucks - if you follow the normal life. If you give a sh!t about what they tell you to give a sh!t about, you will waste most of your life.

---

So frankly, I think most things are useless, and we should try to be happy any way we can make ourselves happy. This is the one chance we get at life - so I don't understand why people waste it on things they don't like.

So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

School is the worst. For me, life got much more fun and interesting when I got my own place in the city.

I hate to say it, but for me life gets meaning from loving other people. I know this because for a few years I didn't love anybody. Love is not reasonable or even pleasant, but it kinda holds the rest of everything together. That's my experience. I wish it wasn't so cheesy, but that's how it is. You can't rush it though. You have to find out for yourself. My advice is not to worry to much if you're feeling bad because school is such a factory. It will get better when you graduate. University is completely different.
Hoppi
Posts: 1,655
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4/6/2016 5:19:57 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
You don't have to love people, maybe. You could love something else instead. It's the loving that matters. I've seen people love animals, God, political movements, art, science. You could go that way too. Loving people has the most robust effect though.
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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4/6/2016 11:05:56 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm an existential nihilist who is apathetic about most things in life, and I'm turned off by most normal things. I view society as something that just makes barriers to happiness. Society's view of what gives people meaning is bullsh!t, in my opinion.

All of these are bullsh!t:

School as it is conducted today:

We have great thinking capacities, and we waste it in school. I have learned more away from school, and this is where the problem is: from 6 AM to 2:30 PM, I am either getting ready for school, am in school, or am going home. This eats up more than a third of my day, when I could be learning. I don't care about some curriculum director's view of the writing intricacies of Shakespeare when I could be researching world problems. So I am left with 15 hours and 30 minutes to do whatever I want. The problem is that humans sleep. I sleep, on average, 1 to 4 hours a day.

So to begin, I'm unhappy with education.

9 to 5 work:

This is what I'm supposed to look forward to. After spending my teen years in school and then 4 years entrenching myself in heavy debt I'm supposed to suit up and do a job I presumably don't really like doing. Every day. And then I'll get home after a commute, and be exhausted. And I'll do that for 45 years. Then I'll die 10-20 years later as I run out of money, as my body and mind deteriorates.

What a life.

The importance of family

"The blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb" - so why does society put any emphasis on this forced relationship?

Giving a sh!t in general

Life sucks - if you follow the normal life. If you give a sh!t about what they tell you to give a sh!t about, you will waste most of your life.

---

So frankly, I think most things are useless, and we should try to be happy any way we can make ourselves happy. This is the one chance we get at life - so I don't understand why people waste it on things they don't like.

So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

You say you are a nihilist, but the fact that you make these four claims like they are meaningful says otherwise...
1harderthanyouthink
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4/6/2016 11:20:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:18:08 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?
A desire to improve myself--academically, musically, as a person...the list goes on.
What do you feel you get out of striving to do so well academically?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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The-Voice-of-Truth
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4/6/2016 12:19:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:38:48 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:10:42 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:18:08 AM, Sapphique wrote:
I don't know how you manage to survive on 1-4 hours of sleep :/ I'm getting about 4-5 right now and I always feel so dead in the mornings =.=

Night owls 4 dayz. Get on our level, scrub.

How much sleep do you get?

About 2 hours.
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
Vaarka
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4/6/2016 12:25:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:19:15 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:38:48 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:10:42 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:18:08 AM, Sapphique wrote:
I don't know how you manage to survive on 1-4 hours of sleep :/ I'm getting about 4-5 right now and I always feel so dead in the mornings =.=

Night owls 4 dayz. Get on our level, scrub.

How much sleep do you get?

About 2 hours.

XD even I don't like operating on that amount of sleep (not that I can't, but I don't prefer to). I usually go with 5-6 hours, sometimes 7 or 8 (cross country eh?)
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
The-Voice-of-Truth
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4/6/2016 12:27:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:25:31 PM, Vaarka wrote:
XD even I don't like operating on that amount of sleep (not that I can't, but I don't prefer to). I usually go with 5-6 hours, sometimes 7 or 8 (cross country eh?)

Well, if left unattended, I usually get about 15 hours of sleep.
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
Vaarka
Posts: 7,655
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4/6/2016 12:29:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:27:25 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/6/2016 12:25:31 PM, Vaarka wrote:
XD even I don't like operating on that amount of sleep (not that I can't, but I don't prefer to). I usually go with 5-6 hours, sometimes 7 or 8 (cross country eh?)

Well, if left unattended, I usually get about 15 hours of sleep.

XD I've never slept past 9 in the morning (unless I didn't fall asleep until 4 or later)
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,107
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4/6/2016 2:44:56 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:35:15 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

I was was much older than you when I figured out the various bullsh*t you alluded too, I'am so proud of you.

Suffice to say you have now gone beyond the world as it is presented to you, seeing the world as it is. It only gets darker from here, how far down the rabbit hole do you go ?

I would have trouble following the average path of people from my current point.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,107
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4/6/2016 3:01:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:11:54 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

I can't answer it for you or anything, and possibly not quite accurately for myself, but I feel like the bonds and relationships we make in life, as well as some of the things we do, can give some meaning.

For me, I have a good handful of friends, some of which are close friends, 3 of which I consider best friends (YEH VALKRIN). Being able to spend time with these friends, have fun, and enjoy life while we can is part of how I give my life meaning. Of course, I also give my life meaning with all the music I listen to, and the goals I set for myself. Some day, I want to make music. Some day, I want to be a pro osu! player. Some day, I want to run a marathon. Some day, I'd like to get into college. Some day, I'd like to marry someone. Some day, I'd like to blah blah blah. Being the optimist that I am, life is full of meaning.

I'm utterly incompatible with optimism. I say to any optimist that they should take a long look at the world and how it functions, and whether any of it is really rewarding.

Of course, life may not be exciting, thrilling, or what we want, but we still live it. Some day, it should improve. And while we're young, we should enjoy it. After all, you can't be 20 on sugar mountain.

It should improve, but it doesn't. Then what?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,107
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4/6/2016 3:02:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 5:19:57 AM, Hoppi wrote:
You don't have to love people, maybe. You could love something else instead. It's the loving that matters. I've seen people love animals, God, political movements, art, science. You could go that way too. Loving people has the most robust effect though.

I view religion as a conscious decision to give life meaning as a cop-out, and one that is harmful in the long run.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Vaarka
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4/6/2016 5:19:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:01:41 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 4/6/2016 2:11:54 AM, Vaarka wrote:
At 4/6/2016 12:58:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
So we come to the point of the thread: what, truly, gives your life meaning?

I can't answer it for you or anything, and possibly not quite accurately for myself, but I feel like the bonds and relationships we make in life, as well as some of the things we do, can give some meaning.

For me, I have a good handful of friends, some of which are close friends, 3 of which I consider best friends (YEH VALKRIN). Being able to spend time with these friends, have fun, and enjoy life while we can is part of how I give my life meaning. Of course, I also give my life meaning with all the music I listen to, and the goals I set for myself. Some day, I want to make music. Some day, I want to be a pro osu! player. Some day, I want to run a marathon. Some day, I'd like to get into college. Some day, I'd like to marry someone. Some day, I'd like to blah blah blah. Being the optimist that I am, life is full of meaning.

I'm utterly incompatible with optimism. I say to any optimist that they should take a long look at the world and how it functions, and whether any of it is really rewarding.

Optimists are able see that, but they usually choose to either ignore it (ignorant optimism), find the bright side to it (eh), or look past it (yay). It's not really about what you can get from the world, but what you can do with it.

Of course, life may not be exciting, thrilling, or what we want, but we still live it. Some day, it should improve. And while we're young, we should enjoy it. After all, you can't be 20 on sugar mountain.

It should improve, but it doesn't. Then what?
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya