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Recent Events and Black Lives Matter

Mikal
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7/8/2016 7:40:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The increased violence in the world is quite depressing. Every day we hear a story about a police killing someone, or someone taking action back against the police in response. This entire line of thought is primordial, and goes back to the origins of evolution and the way our brains operate and function. I attribute this to two major factors which are a form of heuristics, and conformation bias being the result of that.

We tend to categorize people into groups on a normative basis. This can be jocks, goths, cops, blacks, etc. Everyone has their own group that they belong to, and we tend to view people in different groups as outsiders or different. We alienate people and things that we are not familiar with. We may not know these people, we only know about them. We make predetermined judgments based on other peoples experiences with them, stories, or other various outlets that are available to us. Which leads us to those two factors that cause the violence that we often see

(1) The Availability Heuristic
(2) Conformation Bias

The availability heuristic is a mental shortcut that our mind takes to make things easier. It relies on impulse thoughts and immediate examples for our mind to come to a conclusion about a certain topic. How this relates to the topic at hand is because one such example is "all cops are bad". The media explodes stories about cops killing African Americans and it's all we see. So most people who are uninformed are susceptible to making an uninformed decision. All the stories about cops killing people, are all some people see. So those people automatically associate cops with being bad. Another example of this is that "Muslims are terrorist", which is a prominent belief in the south. Again this is due to negative media exposure, when it is is clearly not the case. People make these assumptions because it's the only examples they have open to them which then leads to conformation bias.

How does this apply to the crime we see on a regular basis. Look at the recent dallas shooting

" The suspect told a negotiator that he was upset about the Black Lives Matter movement and the recent police shootings of black men elsewhere in the U.S. The suspect also stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers,"

This is literally the availability heuristic at it's very core. The shooter saw stories about cops being bad, and wanted to punish them based on his limited knowledge of the situation. The sad thing is this only applies to a small minority of cops. Not all cops are bad, they all are normal people just like us who just go to work and try to protect the community they serve. There are bad apples in every tree, and to quote an old saying "you can't judge an entire tree because of one bad fruit". We all have racism that is pristine deep within us in some ways. It's the way we are built. We can teach ourselves to think before we act, and look at all the details surrounding a situation before we make irrational decisions in order to come to the best possible solution.

The entire black lives matter movement is pushing back the progress of unity within our nation farther than it's ever been pushed back. It's a horrible toxic movement that should be abolished, or reformed at it's very core. Promoting violence, giving misleading facts, and not attempting to work with leaders is not the way to go. There are peaceful resolutions to violent crimes and because of the story that is being portrayed by the black lives matter movement, we see situations like what happened yesterday at Dallas.

They need to be made aware of what they are doing, and how they are becoming detrimental to society because of a very false narrative. The same is true to *very small* minority of cops who act on their internal racism and make bad decisions in very dire situations. We all need to train ourselves to adapt and think about situations carefully. Look at the facts, the details leading up to conflict, and to everything around that situation to make a better solution possible.

That is how we improve our nation, not marching down the street yelling "we hate cops"

Grow up and stop tearing our nation apart.
1harderthanyouthink
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7/8/2016 7:47:25 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Food for thought: https://www.washingtonpost.com...
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sadolite
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7/8/2016 10:07:56 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Got locked and loaded today on my lunch break. Bought an AR-15 and a .38 pistol. After seeing the brazen killing of police like I did, I have no faith what so ever in law enforcement officers being pro active anymore. I don't blame them one bit, If I was a police officer I would have turned my badge in, they are just target practice for the lawless now. A shout out to you brave police officers still willing to put your lives on the line for a ungrateful, disrespectful entitlement minded spoiled brat populous. I sure as hell wouldn't. I'd say reap what you sow and live in your crime ridden sht holes. I don't care anymore, just don't come to my house because hell is coming to breakfast if you do.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
bballcrook21
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7/9/2016 3:38:18 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 10:07:56 PM, sadolite wrote:
Got locked and loaded today on my lunch break. Bought an AR-15 and a .38 pistol. After seeing the brazen killing of police like I did, I have no faith what so ever in law enforcement officers being pro active anymore. I don't blame them one bit, If I was a police officer I would have turned my badge in, they are just target practice for the lawless now. A shout out to you brave police officers still willing to put your lives on the line for a ungrateful, disrespectful entitlement minded spoiled brat populous. I sure as hell wouldn't. I'd say reap what you sow and live in your crime ridden sht holes. I don't care anymore, just don't come to my house because hell is coming to breakfast if you do.

Agreed 100%.
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RyuuKyuzo
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7/9/2016 12:14:26 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The fact that they've actually started killing cops (white cops, specifically) as retribution for the make-believe injustices done to them means their movement has gone from being a general embarrassment to being a legit terrorist organization as far as I'm concerned.

Blacks kill whites at far greater rates than whites kill blacks. Hell, even blacks have a higher kill-count on blacks than whites have year in year out. Even if we just look at cops, the odds of a cop being killed by a black is something like 18x that of the reverse happening.

This is a morally bankrupt movement and I have no respect for the people who still support it.
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YYW
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7/9/2016 3:26:09 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/9/2016 12:14:26 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
The fact that they've actually started killing cops (white cops, specifically) as retribution for the make-believe injustices done to them means their movement has gone from being a general embarrassment to being a legit terrorist organization as far as I'm concerned.

Blacks kill whites at far greater rates than whites kill blacks. Hell, even blacks have a higher kill-count on blacks than whites have year in year out. Even if we just look at cops, the odds of a cop being killed by a black is something like 18x that of the reverse happening.

This is a morally bankrupt movement and I have no respect for the people who still support it.

Indeed.
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 1:16:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:40:31 PM, Mikal wrote:

The entire black lives matter movement is pushing back the progress of unity within our nation farther than it's ever been pushed back. It's a horrible toxic movement that should be abolished, or reformed at it's very core. Promoting violence, giving misleading facts, and not attempting to work with leaders is not the way to go. There are peaceful resolutions to violent crimes and because of the story that is being portrayed by the black lives matter movement, we see situations like what happened yesterday at Dallas.

What are your thoughts on the fact that white people said literally the same thing about the civil rights movement in the 60s? http://oi65.tinypic.com...
http://www.nytimes.com...

Here are some debunked myths about BLM
http://www.theroot.com...
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 1:31:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
FYI There are a number of cognitive errors and falsehoods in your post but I'm more interested in what you think about the parallels between white reactions to the CRM and white reactions to BLM. There seems to be this whitewashing of history where white people hold the CRM as the pinnacle for how things should be done in an attempt to invalidate BLM. It's like the Bible - people just pick and choose want they want to believe in, and disregard the rest. Confirmation bias...?
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 1:32:41 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Inb4 YYW decides to respond to me, because I'm sure he will. I'm not going to read it, so if and when he does respond to me, it will literally be for his own ego/internet cred.
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Blade-of-Truth
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7/16/2016 5:23:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/9/2016 12:14:26 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
This is a morally bankrupt movement and I have no respect for the people who still support it.

+1
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Mikal
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7/16/2016 5:38:22 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 1:31:45 PM, lamerde wrote:
FYI There are a number of cognitive errors and falsehoods in your post but I'm more interested in what you think about the parallels between white reactions to the CRM and white reactions to BLM. There seems to be this whitewashing of history where white people hold the CRM as the pinnacle for how things should be done in an attempt to invalidate BLM. It's like the Bible - people just pick and choose want they want to believe in, and disregard the rest. Confirmation bias...?

So this is going to be a long post but I think it's necessary in order to address most of the points your brought up. The phrase and how you are coining cherry pick is two fold. There may be similarities between BLM and the CRM, but that does not make them the same movement, or even near the same movement for that matter. Sure the entire goal for both movements is equal rights, but the way that is achieved and the message that is taught in order to achieve that goal is fundamentally different. Would MLK have shut down highways and did extreme marches to make a point? Sure he would have. The bus boycott, the Albany march, the Birmingham march, etc and so forth. He did a lot of protests to make points. The dichotomy between both movements, is that the CRM that was started by MLK had a peaceful foundation that was carried over into those marches. MLK even went as far as to call Ghandi a guiding light because of his views of pacifism. MLK never taught hate, he never taught people to dislike other people, the entire foundation of the movement was equality and peaceful protesting. He taught all lives matter, which was more directly related to blacks at the time because they were being oppressed. So to the extent that all lives matter, black lives really mattered to him.

Now I know this is like a poke back at my OP. That you can't say an entire movement is bad because of a few events. That is saying the whole tree is bad because of bad apples. The issue is that the movement itself openly teaches false narratives. Citing passages that say the movement is peaceful is not enough nor does it even address the route of the problem. There is no foundation of leadership like there was with the CRM. MLK was the person who guided the movement, and he pushed for and kept things peaceful. The movement itself was just not for black lives, it was equality of all people. Sure it was founded on the oppression of black people, but like I said his message was much deeper than that. BLM is left open to interpretation by those who want equality which leads to violence because of how it can be interpreted. They don't have ghandi as a role model, they don't have MLK leading them and pushing for peaceful protests. They have this idea that everyone hates them and is dehumanizing them, so they interpret that their lives specifically don't matter. This leads them to respond with hate.

i mean look on the main page of the BLM movement

" It is an affirmation of Black folks" contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

"Rooted in the experiences of Black people in this country who actively resist our dehumanization"

"BlackLivesMatter is a call to action and a response to the virulent anti-Black racism that permeates our society.Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes."

The entire message is that everyone hates black people. That is such a false narrative. As of late they use this to cite police brutality as a major issues in society. Again that is cherry picking. Cops kill twice as many whites as they do blacks ( https://www.themarshallproject.org...). I'm aware this is not on a per captia scale but it shows that police do not discriminate on a normative basis. They kill people who they think are a threat to their lives. Could that be tied into inherent racism? It's a possibility in some cases. The issue now is that BLM is entirely focused on this cops hates blacks false narrative. Now you have cops pulling over black individuals who are armed and that may have the right to be armed, but because of the false narrative are scared for their lives because of the BLM movement. You have black people actively attacking cops because they think all cops hate them, which in turn makes cops more cautious and scared when arrests happen. You do have some cops that inflict brutality on black people because of racism, but that does not make it the fault of the police office or cops in general. They pit this blame on a few and I do mean few cops who are racist and act stupid. You can't use that as a false narrative to breed an endless cycle of hate. People who are uninformed and unaware take this information and run with it and try to retaliate. The media gets a hold of the small amount of stories where this happens and blows it up, and then the cycle continues. The entire cycle that is happening is shifting from a cycle of peace and all lives matter, to everyone hates blacks. That is so false and the narrative is causing more harm than fixing things. The movement needs strong leadership to guide it and not leave open the motives for interpretation. The interpretation is often negative because of the false narrative that is engraved within the movement now.
bballcrook21
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7/16/2016 5:51:44 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 1:16:33 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:40:31 PM, Mikal wrote:

The entire black lives matter movement is pushing back the progress of unity within our nation farther than it's ever been pushed back. It's a horrible toxic movement that should be abolished, or reformed at it's very core. Promoting violence, giving misleading facts, and not attempting to work with leaders is not the way to go. There are peaceful resolutions to violent crimes and because of the story that is being portrayed by the black lives matter movement, we see situations like what happened yesterday at Dallas.

What are your thoughts on the fact that white people said literally the same thing about the civil rights movement in the 60s? http://oi65.tinypic.com...
http://www.nytimes.com...

This is guilt by association.


Here are some debunked myths about BLM
http://www.theroot.com...
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

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Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Emmarie
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7/16/2016 6:28:39 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 1:31:45 PM, lamerde wrote:
FYI There are a number of cognitive errors and falsehoods in your post but I'm more interested in what you think about the parallels between white reactions to the CRM and white reactions to BLM. There seems to be this whitewashing of history where white people hold the CRM as the pinnacle for how things should be done in an attempt to invalidate BLM. It's like the Bible - people just pick and choose want they want to believe in, and disregard the rest. Confirmation bias...?

+1 Glad to see you here. The only thing that I disagree with is paralleling many white people's cherry picking of the style of the Civil Rights Movement (typed out for those who don't get the acronym) with cherry picking the Bible. In a way though, I can see some value of both. Some white people may cherry pick the style and events of the CRM, to express the techniques that actually led to significant changes in their own thinking and ultimately impacted laws. Dr. MLK was more radical than many white people are aware of, but his leadership included passive resistance in the midst of public protest and civil disobedience. Without the leadership of someone like Dr. MLK to inspire effective ways of getting the plight acknowledged, lone activists like the shooter in Dallas, could realistically think that they are advancing the cause, when they are preventing it from bearing the "fruits" that it is capable of.
lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:00:39 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 5:38:22 PM, Mikal wrote:

So this is going to be a long post but I think it's necessary in order to address most of the points your brought up. The phrase and how you are coining cherry pick is two fold. There may be similarities between BLM and the CRM, but that does not make them the same movement, or even near the same movement for that matter. Sure the entire goal for both movements is equal rights, but the way that is achieved and the message that is taught in order to achieve that goal is fundamentally different. Would MLK have shut down highways and did extreme marches to make a point? Sure he would have. The bus boycott, the Albany march, the Birmingham march, etc and so forth. He did a lot of protests to make points. The dichotomy between both movements, is that the CRM that was started by MLK had a peaceful foundation that was carried over into those marches.

How do you define "peaceful"? For a lot of people, what MLK did was disruptive. BLM also engages in what I could consider peaceful protest. I'm guessing images like this don't fit the dominant BLM narrative: http://img.wennermedia.com...

MLK even went as far as to call Ghandi a guiding light because of his views of pacifism. MLK never taught hate, he never taught people to dislike other people, the entire foundation of the movement was equality and peaceful protesting. He taught all lives matter, which was more directly related to blacks at the time because they were being oppressed. So to the extent that all lives matter, black lives really mattered to him.

Gandhi was a supreme racist himself who has also been whitewashed by history, so I don't really care to hold him up as any kind of standard.

MLK would certainly not have taught or espoused "all lives matter" in the way people mean it today. When people say "all lives matter" today, they are erasing the purpose of Black lives matter. Black lives matter isn't saying other lives don't matter - that is a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.

Now I know this is like a poke back at my OP. That you can't say an entire movement is bad because of a few events. That is saying the whole tree is bad because of bad apples. The issue is that the movement itself openly teaches false narratives.

Like what?

Citing passages that say the movement is peaceful is not enough nor does it even address the route of the problem. There is no foundation of leadership like there was with the CRM.

The assumption that there even should be a single (male) leader is a very male-centered view. There are other types of leadership and there's no reason to assume they are any less valid, much less that they somehow are "bad."

MLK was the person who guided the movement, and he pushed for and kept things peaceful. The movement itself was just not for black lives, it was equality of all people.

Sure, with an emphasis on Black lives. Imagine if he had said he had a dream that some day his children would be judged by the content of their characters, and someone in the crowd shouted "What about all children!" That's the equivalent of the "all lives matter" response. MLK specifically talked about racial inequality and how it affected BLACK people.

Sure it was founded on the oppression of black people, but like I said his message was much deeper than that. BLM is left open to interpretation by those who want equality which leads to violence because of how it can be interpreted.

Not sure I follow.

They don't have ghandi as a role model,

Nor should they, since he believed Black people were like untouchables.

they don't have MLK leading them and pushing for peaceful protests. They have this idea that everyone hates them and is dehumanizing them, so they interpret that their lives specifically don't matter. This leads them to respond with hate.

No, the way the media treats black people, the public response to black deaths in the news, the legal system, and scientific studies all support the fact that black lives specifically don't matter to people.

i mean look on the main page of the BLM movement

" It is an affirmation of Black folks" contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

"Rooted in the experiences of Black people in this country who actively resist our dehumanization"

"BlackLivesMatter is a call to action and a response to the virulent anti-Black racism that permeates our society.Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes."


The entire message is that everyone hates black people.

There is nothing wrong with anything you quoted from the page. There's nothing there that says "everyone" hates black people. Systemic oppression is a fact, discrimination is a fact, prejudice is a fact, stereotypes are fact. Anti-Black racism is a fact.

That is such a false narrative. As of late they use this to cite police brutality as a major issues in society. Again that is cherry picking. Cops kill twice as many whites as they do blacks ( https://www.themarshallproject.org...). I'm aware this is not on a per captia scale but it shows that police do not discriminate on a normative basis.

How do you come to the conclusion that police do not discriminate when black people are disproportionately targeted and executed?

They kill people who they think are a threat to their lives. Could that be tied into inherent racism? It's a possibility in some cases.

Absolutely it's tied to racism. Anti-blackness didn't start when BLM start and it didn't start when social media/cameras were around to capture police brutality. People fear black people and black men. I don't even know how you can dispute that as a fact. Black men, for several decades, have been associated with fear, and that increases the level of perceived threat.

On the one hand, you deride BLM for acting in hate against "perceptions" of anti-black racism, and on the other hand, you minimize or justify police officers executing innocent people based on their perception of danger.

The issue now is that BLM is entirely focused on this cops hates blacks false narrative.

Nobody says "cops hate blacks." You keep strawmanning their position - no wonder you have so much to say.

Now you have cops pulling over black individuals who are armed and that may have the right to be armed, but because of the false narrative are scared for their lives because of the BLM movement.

Police officers have been jumpy around black people since long before BLM. There have been studies that show police officers doing implicit association tests, where they are presented with 4 scenarios: a white unarmed person, a white armed person, a black unarmed person, and a black armed person. Police officers were more likely to delay shooting a white armed person, and more likely to shoot an unarmed black person. I remember reading that study about a decade ago. What was their excuse then?
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:05:15 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I mean, Mikal, your entire argument is based off strawmen of the BLM movement. You've built them up in your head and are engaging in the exact cognitive errors you accuse others of.

I ask you - when Dylan Roof shot all those black people in the church in the name of white supremacy or whatever, did you feel it had anything to do with you as a white person? Any time a white person commits a hate based crime on the basis of race, do you feel responsible? Is that endemic of white culture? Do you blame white culture or white people for promoting racial violence committed by white people?

You probably don't, because white people get to be individuals. So many black people (including members of BLM) have condemned the Dallas shootings and somehow they're responsible for it?

There have been white people who have also killed cops, but I'm guessing you don't feel responsible for it.

The bottom line is BLM has never been about cop-hating. It's always been about police brutality. And if you can't separate hating police brutality from hating police, then perhaps you are part of the problem.
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:11:51 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 6:28:39 PM, Emmarie wrote:

+1 Glad to see you here. The only thing that I disagree with is paralleling many white people's cherry picking of the style of the Civil Rights Movement (typed out for those who don't get the acronym) with cherry picking the Bible. In a way though, I can see some value of both. Some white people may cherry pick the style and events of the CRM, to express the techniques that actually led to significant changes in their own thinking and ultimately impacted laws. Dr. MLK was more radical than many white people are aware of, but his leadership included passive resistance in the midst of public protest and civil disobedience. Without the leadership of someone like Dr. MLK to inspire effective ways of getting the plight acknowledged, lone activists like the shooter in Dallas, could realistically think that they are advancing the cause, when they are preventing it from bearing the "fruits" that it is capable of.

Thanks. BLM has engaged in lots of passive resistance and peaceful protest. I'm not sure why this one person who has nothing to do with the movement or its members would characterize the entire movement. When the KKK, a Christian group, commits a hate crime, is Christianity or White people/culture to blame? Apparently, neither.

I think people just want reasons to hate BLM that have nothing to do with the Dallas shooter. Before Dallas, people complained about BLM. The shooter himself has nothing to do with the movement in the same way that individual white people who commit crimes and acts of terrorism get to be individual, lone wolves. Using him as an example to characterize the movement, while ignoring everything else the movement has done and is attempting to do, is completely disingenuous.

Strawman arguments like "BLM says other lives don't matter" and "BLM hates police and encourages violence against police" are only indicative of how little people understand what they're saying.
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:16:52 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:00:39 PM, lamerde wrote:

How do you come to the conclusion that police do not discriminate when black people are disproportionately targeted and executed?

I realized after you posted a link in there. I skimmed it and while it doesn't have a few cases that may have other explanations, a few cases don't eliminate a trend. A few cases don't eliminate lab-based experimental controlled studies that show police officers are more trigger happy with black people.
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:18:00 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:16:52 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 7/16/2016 8:00:39 PM, lamerde wrote:

How do you come to the conclusion that police do not discriminate when black people are disproportionately targeted and executed?

I realized after you posted a link in there. I skimmed it and while it does have a few cases that may have other explanations, a few cases don't eliminate a trend. A few cases don't eliminate lab-based experimental controlled studies that show police officers are more trigger happy with black people.

Fixed. Sorry for multiposting. I'm sure there are other typos but if it obstructs understanding, just point it out.
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RyuuKyuzo
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7/16/2016 8:19:00 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Guys, BLM as a group has nothing to do with increased police killings. The recent ones were done by a lone wolf who didn't even explicitly say he was killing them for BLM, which means it could just be a coincidence! It's also probably just a coincidence that the number of cops feloniously killed f-cking skyrocketed once BLM hit the scene. You can't prove it's not!

2011: 171 killed, 71 feloniously killed
2012: 126 killed, 47 feloniously killed, 25% decrease
2013: 107 killed, 27 feloniously killed, 44% decrease

>Zimmerman acquitted that summer
>BLM becomes a thing

2014: 117 police officers killed, 51 feloniously killed, **89%** increase

Pure coincidence, I'm sure.

http://www.policemag.com...
https://www.fbi.gov...
https://www.fbi.gov...
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:23:47 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Cool study. You should be a researcher.

At 7/16/2016 8:19:00 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Guys, BLM as a group has nothing to do with increased police killings. The recent ones were done by a lone wolf who didn't even explicitly say he was killing them for BLM, which means it could just be a coincidence! It's also probably just a coincidence that the number of cops feloniously killed f-cking skyrocketed once BLM hit the scene. You can't prove it's not!

2011: 171 killed, 71 feloniously killed
2012: 126 killed, 47 feloniously killed, 25% decrease
2013: 107 killed, 27 feloniously killed, 44% decrease

>Zimmerman acquitted that summer
>BLM becomes a thing

2014: 117 police officers killed, 51 feloniously killed, **89%** increase

Pure coincidence, I'm sure.

http://www.policemag.com...
https://www.fbi.gov...
https://www.fbi.gov...
Why I ignore YYW:
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:27:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I almost want to troll you and insert other random sh!t that occurred in 2014, but who has the time?
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RyuuKyuzo
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7/16/2016 8:27:38 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:23:47 PM, lamerde wrote:
Cool study. You should be a researcher.

At 7/16/2016 8:19:00 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Guys, BLM as a group has nothing to do with increased police killings. The recent ones were done by a lone wolf who didn't even explicitly say he was killing them for BLM, which means it could just be a coincidence! It's also probably just a coincidence that the number of cops feloniously killed f-cking skyrocketed once BLM hit the scene. You can't prove it's not!

2011: 171 killed, 71 feloniously killed
2012: 126 killed, 47 feloniously killed, 25% decrease
2013: 107 killed, 27 feloniously killed, 44% decrease

>Zimmerman acquitted that summer
>BLM becomes a thing

2014: 117 police officers killed, 51 feloniously killed, **89%** increase

Pure coincidence, I'm sure.

http://www.policemag.com...
https://www.fbi.gov...
https://www.fbi.gov...

Well I just got thoroughly BTFO.

I guess these numbers don't mean a damn thing now, folks.
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RyuuKyuzo
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7/16/2016 8:30:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:27:14 PM, lamerde wrote:
I almost want to troll you and insert other random sh!t that occurred in 2014, but who has the time?

I mean, I had the time to find this, but maybe I'm not as important as you.
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:34:32 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:27:38 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 7/16/2016 8:23:47 PM, lamerde wrote:
Cool study. You should be a researcher.

At 7/16/2016 8:19:00 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Guys, BLM as a group has nothing to do with increased police killings. The recent ones were done by a lone wolf who didn't even explicitly say he was killing them for BLM, which means it could just be a coincidence! It's also probably just a coincidence that the number of cops feloniously killed f-cking skyrocketed once BLM hit the scene. You can't prove it's not!

2011: 171 killed, 71 feloniously killed
2012: 126 killed, 47 feloniously killed, 25% decrease
2013: 107 killed, 27 feloniously killed, 44% decrease

>Zimmerman acquitted that summer
>BLM becomes a thing

2014: 117 police officers killed, 51 feloniously killed, **89%** increase

Pure coincidence, I'm sure.

http://www.policemag.com...
https://www.fbi.gov...
https://www.fbi.gov...

Well I just got thoroughly BTFO.

I guess these numbers don't mean a damn thing now, folks.

I mean... it's just nonsensical. First, you're attempting to make a causal claim based on correlational evidence. I could literally insert anything that occurred in the summer of 2013 and it would be just as logical. Second, 134 to 168 is a 25% increase, but I guess that's not as sexy as 89%. Third, based on your logic, something happened in 2012 to make police killings decrease. Hmm Obama got re-elected that year. I guess we can say Obama being re-elected decreased police killing.
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:38:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:34:32 PM, lamerde wrote:

I mean... it's just nonsensical. First, you're attempting to make a causal claim based on correlational evidence. I could literally insert anything that occurred in the summer of 2013 and it would be just as logical. Second, 134 to 168 is a 25% increase, but I guess that's not as sexy as 89%. Third, based on your logic, something happened in 2012 to make police killings decrease. Hmm Obama got re-elected that year. I guess we can say Obama being re-elected decreased police killing.

To clarify, it's not correlational, but for all intents and purposes (I think most laypersons understanding correlation =/= causation). You're attempting to claim two events led to a particular outcome based on no other data. It's just not a thing you can do, sorry. Like I said, nice study. You should submit it to a journal.
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RyuuKyuzo
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7/16/2016 8:46:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Lol, so literally "It could just be a coincidence! You can't prove it's not!"
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lamerde
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7/16/2016 8:50:17 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:46:54 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Lol, so literally "It could just be a coincidence! You can't prove it's not!"

-__- omg lol

No. Google logistic regression. There's more to establishing a predictive model, much less a causal link, than simply stating two things happened to occur around the same time. I don't have the time or interest to explain to you why picking and choosing any event is wrong :/
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7/16/2016 8:57:50 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:50:17 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 7/16/2016 8:46:54 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Lol, so literally "It could just be a coincidence! You can't prove it's not!"

-__- omg lol

No. Google logistic regression. There's more to establishing a predictive model, much less a causal link, than simply stating two things happened to occur around the same time. I don't have the time or interest to explain to you why picking and choosing any event is wrong :/

Bruh, I mean it very well may be just a coincidence, but I don't think BLM is only as likely as any random thing from that year to have contributed to the spike. Unless you think anti-cop rhetoric is ineffectual at causing real increases in anti-cop sentiment, but then if the movement's voice is so inert, what good was all that rioting?
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Emmarie
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7/16/2016 8:58:15 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:11:51 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 7/16/2016 6:28:39 PM, Emmarie wrote:

+1 Glad to see you here. The only thing that I disagree with is paralleling many white people's cherry picking of the style of the Civil Rights Movement (typed out for those who don't get the acronym) with cherry picking the Bible. In a way though, I can see some value of both. Some white people may cherry pick the style and events of the CRM, to express the techniques that actually led to significant changes in their own thinking and ultimately impacted laws. Dr. MLK was more radical than many white people are aware of, but his leadership included passive resistance in the midst of public protest and civil disobedience. Without the leadership of someone like Dr. MLK to inspire effective ways of getting the plight acknowledged, lone activists like the shooter in Dallas, could realistically think that they are advancing the cause, when they are preventing it from bearing the "fruits" that it is capable of.

Thanks. BLM has engaged in lots of passive resistance and peaceful protest. I'm not sure why this one person who has nothing to do with the movement or its members would characterize the entire movement. When the KKK, a Christian group, commits a hate crime, is Christianity or White people/culture to blame? Apparently, neither.

I think people just want reasons to hate BLM that have nothing to do with the Dallas shooter. Before Dallas, people complained about BLM. The shooter himself has nothing to do with the movement in the same way that individual white people who commit crimes and acts of terrorism get to be individual, lone wolves. Using him as an example to characterize the movement, while ignoring everything else the movement has done and is attempting to do, is completely disingenuous.

Strawman arguments like "BLM says other lives don't matter" and "BLM hates police and encourages violence against police" are only indicative of how little people understand what they're saying.

I know and I realize everything you are saying is true. I only brought up the shooter, because he was a lone wolf who may have thought he was advancing the cause, and without a leader like Dr. MLK, lone wolves have no person to represent and vocalize their feelings on a greater scale. Instead they snap, and cause the movement to take the blame. Personally, I'd like to see Rev. Jeremiah Wright take up the cause, and inspire tactics that would be effective.
lamerde
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7/16/2016 9:07:03 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 8:57:50 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Bruh, I mean it very well may be just a coincidence, but I don't think BLM is only as likely as any random thing from that year to have contributed to the spike. Unless you think anti-cop rhetoric is ineffectual at causing real increases in anti-cop sentiment, but then if the movement's voice is so inert, what good was all that rioting?

There are so many assumptions and strawmen in there it's difficult to respond to you. Let me break it down.

"Unless you think anti-cop rhetoric is ineffectual at causing real increases in anti-cop sentiment"

Again, BLM is not "anti-cop," it is anti-police brutality.

"if the movement's voice is so inert, what good was all that rioting?"

BLM's goal did NOT include people killing cops. So if it was ineffectual at promoting cop-killing, that still doesn't mean it was ineffectual overall.

What kind of leading question??

Anyway, speculating on what caused a "spike" does no good when we don't have actual data. Moreover, white people always had anti-cop, anti-establishment sentiment, and no one ever blamed them or the NRA for promoting it. Isn't the whole argument re: right to bear arms to protect yourself from a tyrannical government? Though only when you're white, I suppose, since the NRA has been dead silent on police brutality. Why don't you accuse the pro gun rights people of anti-cop sentiment?
Why I ignore YYW:
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Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...