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Help settle a bet

Skeptical1
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7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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7/28/2016 3:47:33 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.

b)

Audit said non-joint-but-joint secondary account, open her mail, and compare words to the audit and the mail.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
I_Wanna_Rawk
Posts: 480
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7/28/2016 5:42:06 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Call me suspicious, but definitely B. If she really has nothing to hide, why do it secretly, when they do the same thing together? With the mail, if she never had a problem before, why would she have a problem once she starts withdrawing money? It's Occam's razor. Based on the evidence, the simplest solution that fits the facts is that there is a problem.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/28/2016 8:49:16 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.

B. The relationship between Adam and Eve has ran its course. Eve might not have found a Steve yet but its on the horizon because people wont continue in relationships forever when something is making them feel they must be secretive. Sounds like Eve is laying the foundation financially to go her own way. Adam needs to get mentally prepared to cut bait.
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,089
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7/28/2016 8:56:56 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
What the fu... no, no. B. Definately B. If it was just the mail that would be debateable, but literally stealing thousands of dollars and giving the excuse "I thought it would be too much trouble to get you to write your name on a piece of paper so instead I didn't even bother to TELL YOU about the account" What? B!

I hope you or someone you know isn't Adam, mate. If that is the case, look really closely at post number 4, this thread. That literal cancer of a post may give you some insight as to the kind of person Eve is, and as they say knowledge is power.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Skeptical1
Posts: 696
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7/28/2016 10:59:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I really appreciate all the responses to the question, and they all make good points. Post number 4 is an angle I'd never considered before, I certainly wouldn't dismiss it as part of Eve's thinking. Looks like I win the bet.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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7/29/2016 1:24:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

I am not sure how using sex as a cattle prod when you can, then resorting to theft when you can't makes for a sensible solution.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/29/2016 7:34:48 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 10:59:12 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
I really appreciate all the responses to the question, and they all make good points. Post number 4 is an angle I'd never considered before, I certainly wouldn't dismiss it as part of Eve's thinking. Looks like I win the bet.

Women don't try to deceive and take until they have an eye on the door. They don't do that in the beginning when they are happy. I know this from personal experience.

When people take something through deception, they always have a justification. Don't waste any more time with her. Kick her to the curb before she makes your life hell. Relationships don't bounce back. There are tons of single women out there that treat men they date like kings as long as you don't move in with them. Once you move in, it goes downhill.

Time for an upgrade.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/30/2016 12:10:06 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 1:24:30 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

I am not sure how using sex as a cattle prod when you can, then resorting to theft when you can't makes for a sensible solution.
If you are married (or in a live in serious relationship), wait a few years until your wife hits menopause and she has no leverage she wants to offer for goodies or honey do's. If you're not "married," or are gay, you'll never get it.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/30/2016 12:12:23 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?
They are married, "they" moved in. I'm sure Saxon is relieved to hear a perspective that doesn't think she wants to leave him. She may just wanna settle the score.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/30/2016 12:13:32 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?

oops - skeptical one - not saxon. I got posts confused.
Skeptical1
Posts: 696
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7/30/2016 1:44:06 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 12:12:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?
They are married, "they" moved in. I'm sure Saxon is relieved to hear a perspective that doesn't think she wants to leave him. She may just wanna settle the score.

As I said, I'm grateful for all perspectives, and anything that can shed light on the situation. Your perspective certainly enlightened me, and I am glad you offered your thoughts, though I can't say I agree with them. I do not think it's ok to go through many years of marriage and then say "here's the bill for services rendered". Or even worse, just take the payment without even mentioning it. This idea assumes that one party didn't contribute their fair share - but even if that were true, if she thinks she is entitled to remuneration for sexual favours and/or domestic work, as another has commented, this should be spelled out before they enter into a partnership, in my opinion.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/30/2016 2:20:04 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 1:44:06 AM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 7/30/2016 12:12:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?
They are married, "they" moved in. I'm sure Saxon is relieved to hear a perspective that doesn't think she wants to leave him. She may just wanna settle the score.

As I said, I'm grateful for all perspectives, and anything that can shed light on the situation. Your perspective certainly enlightened me, and I am glad you offered your thoughts, though I can't say I agree with them. I do not think it's ok to go through many years of marriage and then say "here's the bill for services rendered". Or even worse, just take the payment without even mentioning it. This idea assumes that one party didn't contribute their fair share - but even if that were true, if she thinks she is entitled to remuneration for sexual favours and/or domestic work, as another has commented, this should be spelled out before they enter into a partnership, in my opinion.
My point is that She doesn't KNOW it when she enters the partnership. She presumes that her efforts will be appreciated as much as she appreciates his! The sex thing comes into play, after expecting to get her desires met, but him falling short of satisfying her, while he is content. Eventually she offers it as a reward, and he learns this, so he does things like "honey do's" without complaining. When hormones eventually cause her to be repelled by giving of her body as rewards for what he SHOULD BE DOING ANYHOW, she may seek a little cash on the side, in case he desires to leave her, since she is no longer rewarding him.

I'm not saying this is the case with Adam and Eve, I'm speaking from the experience of a postmenopausal woman.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/30/2016 2:52:28 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 12:12:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?
They are married, "they" moved in. I'm sure Saxon is relieved to hear a perspective that doesn't think she wants to leave him. She may just wanna settle the score.

People don't settle scores with people they love. They would just discuss their concerns. If a couple cant discuss things, then maybe its time to move on. Personally, I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life in that situation. Why would I? Life can be beautiful or it can be miserable depending on who we have in our life.

I used to be miserable. Now I am happy. I think that turned out to be a great move in the right direction. I wish I made the move when it was obvious to everyone else because it was just wasted time.
matt8800
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7/30/2016 2:57:59 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 2:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 1:44:06 AM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 7/30/2016 12:12:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?
They are married, "they" moved in. I'm sure Saxon is relieved to hear a perspective that doesn't think she wants to leave him. She may just wanna settle the score.

As I said, I'm grateful for all perspectives, and anything that can shed light on the situation. Your perspective certainly enlightened me, and I am glad you offered your thoughts, though I can't say I agree with them. I do not think it's ok to go through many years of marriage and then say "here's the bill for services rendered". Or even worse, just take the payment without even mentioning it. This idea assumes that one party didn't contribute their fair share - but even if that were true, if she thinks she is entitled to remuneration for sexual favours and/or domestic work, as another has commented, this should be spelled out before they enter into a partnership, in my opinion.
My point is that She doesn't KNOW it when she enters the partnership. She presumes that her efforts will be appreciated as much as she appreciates his! The sex thing comes into play, after expecting to get her desires met, but him falling short of satisfying her, while he is content. Eventually she offers it as a reward, and he learns this, so he does things like "honey do's" without complaining. When hormones eventually cause her to be repelled by giving of her body as rewards for what he SHOULD BE DOING ANYHOW, she may seek a little cash on the side, in case he desires to leave her, since she is no longer rewarding him.


In that situation, I think that would be a terrible relationship to be in for both parties. I think it is just wasting life when spending years in relationships like that. Life can be beautiful. That is not beautiful.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/30/2016 3:05:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 2:57:59 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/30/2016 2:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 1:44:06 AM, Skeptical1 wrote:
At 7/30/2016 12:12:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/29/2016 7:41:43 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/28/2016 5:50:11 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/28/2016 1:53:30 PM, Skeptical1 wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

If she is owed money for work around the house, don't you think it would be more ethical to either not move in or arrange the amount of her payments prior to moving in?
They are married, "they" moved in. I'm sure Saxon is relieved to hear a perspective that doesn't think she wants to leave him. She may just wanna settle the score.

As I said, I'm grateful for all perspectives, and anything that can shed light on the situation. Your perspective certainly enlightened me, and I am glad you offered your thoughts, though I can't say I agree with them. I do not think it's ok to go through many years of marriage and then say "here's the bill for services rendered". Or even worse, just take the payment without even mentioning it. This idea assumes that one party didn't contribute their fair share - but even if that were true, if she thinks she is entitled to remuneration for sexual favours and/or domestic work, as another has commented, this should be spelled out before they enter into a partnership, in my opinion.
My point is that She doesn't KNOW it when she enters the partnership. She presumes that her efforts will be appreciated as much as she appreciates his! The sex thing comes into play, after expecting to get her desires met, but him falling short of satisfying her, while he is content. Eventually she offers it as a reward, and he learns this, so he does things like "honey do's" without complaining. When hormones eventually cause her to be repelled by giving of her body as rewards for what he SHOULD BE DOING ANYHOW, she may seek a little cash on the side, in case he desires to leave her, since she is no longer rewarding him.


In that situation, I think that would be a terrible relationship to be in for both parties. I think it is just wasting life when spending years in relationships like that. Life can be beautiful. That is not beautiful.

Life is still beautiful. Not everything is always butterflies and roses. Spiders spin beautiful webs, and stinging nettle is edible, if you steam it.
Peepette
Posts: 1,240
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7/30/2016 3:27:41 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I really don't think it's either. Early in marriage the couple is of the same mind, all is hunky dory, especially if married young. People change as they age and develop new perspectives. Granted, she taking out money from the joint account without discussion with her husband was wrong and underhanded, no excuse. On this alone there is a problem with communication in the marriage at the very least. With that said though, she may be seeking some sort of personal financial autonomy. If the couple does not see eye to eye on how best to manage their money over long term she may feel she needs to take some reign into her own hands for long term stability of both or just herself. No one knows what the future brings and a certain amount of financial protection needs to be considered. It"s very much how each person views the use of money. One might be devil may care live day to day; the other might have a rainy day, retirement or emergency plan. There"s just not enough information given in the scenario to make an assessment.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/30/2016 3:55:23 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 3:27:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
I really don't think it's either. Early in marriage the couple is of the same mind, all is hunky dory, especially if married young. People change as they age and develop new perspectives. Granted, she taking out money from the joint account without discussion with her husband was wrong and underhanded, no excuse. On this alone there is a problem with communication in the marriage at the very least. With that said though, she may be seeking some sort of personal financial autonomy. If the couple does not see eye to eye on how best to manage their money over long term she may feel she needs to take some reign into her own hands for long term stability of both or just herself. No one knows what the future brings and a certain amount of financial protection needs to be considered. It"s very much how each person views the use of money. One might be devil may care live day to day; the other might have a rainy day, retirement or emergency plan. There"s just not enough information given in the scenario to make an assessment.

A problem with communication, most likely means a problem that stems from the bedroom, let's not be naive here. Couples who are getting their groove on and are mutually satisfied are likely to be open and honest and trust in one another fully. Which would mean that even if they had differences about how to handle finances, they would be able to openly talk about it.
Peepette
Posts: 1,240
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7/30/2016 4:01:54 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 3:55:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:27:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
I really don't think it's either. Early in marriage the couple is of the same mind, all is hunky dory, especially if married young. People change as they age and develop new perspectives. Granted, she taking out money from the joint account without discussion with her husband was wrong and underhanded, no excuse. On this alone there is a problem with communication in the marriage at the very least. With that said though, she may be seeking some sort of personal financial autonomy. If the couple does not see eye to eye on how best to manage their money over long term she may feel she needs to take some reign into her own hands for long term stability of both or just herself. No one knows what the future brings and a certain amount of financial protection needs to be considered. It"s very much how each person views the use of money. One might be devil may care live day to day; the other might have a rainy day, retirement or emergency plan. There"s just not enough information given in the scenario to make an assessment.

A problem with communication, most likely means a problem that stems from the bedroom, let's not be naive here. Couples who are getting their groove on and are mutually satisfied are likely to be open and honest and trust in one another fully. Which would mean that even if they had differences about how to handle finances, they would be able to openly talk about it.

I have to disagree here. Good sex is good sex, satisfying and honest. But when it comes to more complex issues away from the sheets, there is a certain amount of self preservation mindset when it comes to long term decisions.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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7/30/2016 4:14:09 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 4:01:54 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:55:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:27:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
I really don't think it's either. Early in marriage the couple is of the same mind, all is hunky dory, especially if married young. People change as they age and develop new perspectives. Granted, she taking out money from the joint account without discussion with her husband was wrong and underhanded, no excuse. On this alone there is a problem with communication in the marriage at the very least. With that said though, she may be seeking some sort of personal financial autonomy. If the couple does not see eye to eye on how best to manage their money over long term she may feel she needs to take some reign into her own hands for long term stability of both or just herself. No one knows what the future brings and a certain amount of financial protection needs to be considered. It"s very much how each person views the use of money. One might be devil may care live day to day; the other might have a rainy day, retirement or emergency plan. There"s just not enough information given in the scenario to make an assessment.

A problem with communication, most likely means a problem that stems from the bedroom, let's not be naive here. Couples who are getting their groove on and are mutually satisfied are likely to be open and honest and trust in one another fully. Which would mean that even if they had differences about how to handle finances, they would be able to openly talk about it.

I have to disagree here. Good sex is good sex, satisfying and honest. But when it comes to more complex issues away from the sheets, there is a certain amount of self preservation mindset when it comes to long term decisions.

Well if the sex was mutual, then there would be a mutually agreeable decision about money. Mutually satisfying sex is a rarity, but those who have it, (the real thing - not porn or toy enhanced) are those couples we see who remain best friends. I wish I had it, but I don't. But I'm happy for those who do.
Peepette
Posts: 1,240
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7/30/2016 4:18:50 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 4:14:09 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 4:01:54 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:55:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:27:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
I really don't think it's either. Early in marriage the couple is of the same mind, all is hunky dory, especially if married young. People change as they age and develop new perspectives. Granted, she taking out money from the joint account without discussion with her husband was wrong and underhanded, no excuse. On this alone there is a problem with communication in the marriage at the very least. With that said though, she may be seeking some sort of personal financial autonomy. If the couple does not see eye to eye on how best to manage their money over long term she may feel she needs to take some reign into her own hands for long term stability of both or just herself. No one knows what the future brings and a certain amount of financial protection needs to be considered. It"s very much how each person views the use of money. One might be devil may care live day to day; the other might have a rainy day, retirement or emergency plan. There"s just not enough information given in the scenario to make an assessment.

A problem with communication, most likely means a problem that stems from the bedroom, let's not be naive here. Couples who are getting their groove on and are mutually satisfied are likely to be open and honest and trust in one another fully. Which would mean that even if they had differences about how to handle finances, they would be able to openly talk about it.

I have to disagree here. Good sex is good sex, satisfying and honest. But when it comes to more complex issues away from the sheets, there is a certain amount of self preservation mindset when it comes to long term decisions.

Well if the sex was mutual, then there would be a mutually agreeable decision about money. Mutually satisfying sex is a rarity, but those who have it, (the real thing - not porn or toy enhanced) are those couples we see who remain best friends. I wish I had it, but I don't. But I'm happy for those who do.

There are two different part of the brain at play here. Nature and pragmatic. PM me if you wish to discuss further.
Peepette
Posts: 1,240
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7/30/2016 4:21:59 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 4:14:09 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 4:01:54 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:55:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:27:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
I really don't think it's either. Early in marriage the couple is of the same mind, all is hunky dory, especially if married young. People change as they age and develop new perspectives. Granted, she taking out money from the joint account without discussion with her husband was wrong and underhanded, no excuse. On this alone there is a problem with communication in the marriage at the very least. With that said though, she may be seeking some sort of personal financial autonomy. If the couple does not see eye to eye on how best to manage their money over long term she may feel she needs to take some reign into her own hands for long term stability of both or just herself. No one knows what the future brings and a certain amount of financial protection needs to be considered. It"s very much how each person views the use of money. One might be devil may care live day to day; the other might have a rainy day, retirement or emergency plan. There"s just not enough information given in the scenario to make an assessment.

A problem with communication, most likely means a problem that stems from the bedroom, let's not be naive here. Couples who are getting their groove on and are mutually satisfied are likely to be open and honest and trust in one another fully. Which would mean that even if they had differences about how to handle finances, they would be able to openly talk about it.

I have to disagree here. Good sex is good sex, satisfying and honest. But when it comes to more complex issues away from the sheets, there is a certain amount of self preservation mindset when it comes to long term decisions.

Well if the sex was mutual, then there would be a mutually agreeable decision about money. Mutually satisfying sex is a rarity, but those who have it, (the real thing - not porn or toy enhanced) are those couples we see who remain best friends. I wish I had it, but I don't. But I'm happy for those who do.

There are two different part of the brain at play here. Nature and pragmatic. PM me if you wish to discuss further.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
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7/30/2016 11:23:12 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

I am not sure how using sex as a cattle prod when you can, then resorting to theft when you can't makes for a sensible solution.
If you are married (or in a live in serious relationship), wait a few years until your wife hits menopause and she has no leverage she wants to offer for goodies or honey do's. If you're not "married," or are gay, you'll never get it.

If you started off using sex as a cattle prod, I can understand why you think that.

Yeah, I am married. I engage in my "honey do" stuff because it needs to be done around the house. Her leverage comes from actually doing the honey do's to afford me a bit of recreational time. Sex is a fun thing we engage in when we feel like it. Its not a reward and I am not a conditioned animal in some bizarre Pavlovian experiment.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
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7/30/2016 1:57:49 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

A persons word is a measure of their character. You don't keep your word you can't be trusted, ever. Joint checking accounts are the worst idea ever. They also keep honest people honest. Joint checking accounts are nothing more than a source temptation.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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7/30/2016 5:06:55 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 3:55:23 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/30/2016 3:27:41 AM, Peepette wrote:
I really don't think it's either. Early in marriage the couple is of the same mind, all is hunky dory, especially if married young. People change as they age and develop new perspectives. Granted, she taking out money from the joint account without discussion with her husband was wrong and underhanded, no excuse. On this alone there is a problem with communication in the marriage at the very least. With that said though, she may be seeking some sort of personal financial autonomy. If the couple does not see eye to eye on how best to manage their money over long term she may feel she needs to take some reign into her own hands for long term stability of both or just herself. No one knows what the future brings and a certain amount of financial protection needs to be considered. It"s very much how each person views the use of money. One might be devil may care live day to day; the other might have a rainy day, retirement or emergency plan. There"s just not enough information given in the scenario to make an assessment.

A problem with communication, most likely means a problem that stems from the bedroom, let's not be naive here. Couples who are getting their groove on and are mutually satisfied are likely to be open and honest and trust in one another fully. Which would mean that even if they had differences about how to handle finances, they would be able to openly talk about it.

If couples aren't mutually satisfied, why should they stay together?
matt8800
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7/30/2016 5:09:20 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 1:57:49 PM, sadolite wrote:
Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

A persons word is a measure of their character. You don't keep your word you can't be trusted, ever. Joint checking accounts are the worst idea ever. They also keep honest people honest. Joint checking accounts are nothing more than a source temptation.

Exactly...and whats the point?
sadolite
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7/30/2016 5:23:31 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 5:09:20 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/30/2016 1:57:49 PM, sadolite wrote:
Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

A persons word is a measure of their character. You don't keep your word you can't be trusted, ever. Joint checking accounts are the worst idea ever. They also keep honest people honest. Joint checking accounts are nothing more than a source temptation.

Exactly...and whats the point?

The point is your word is you. You don't keep your word you are worthless. Joint checking accounts are stupid and you should never have one.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Emmarie
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7/30/2016 6:04:15 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 11:23:12 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
To help settle a bet, please imagine the following situation, and then give your response (with or without comments):

A man and a woman (we'll call them Adam and Eve) get married. As part of the process, they set up a single, joint bank account into which all their money goes. There are no individual accounts. One day, years later, Adam discovers that Eve has withdrawn thousands of dollars from this joint bank account, and deposited it into an interest bearing deposit in her own name only. She hasn't told Adam about this. When he asks her for an explanation, she tells him that she has done it to earn higher interest, and that she put it solely in her name so she wouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting his signature. This couple has taken out a number of such investments before, always in joint names. On no previous occasion did they do so without consulting.

Additionally, the same couple have had a simple arrangement for many years, ever since they were first married. Whomever gets home first collects the mail and opens it, no matter to whom it is addressed - him, her, or both. This was not a formal arrangement, it was just the way it was done. Again, after a few years, Eve one day announces that she doesn't want Adam to open her mail any more, and of course, she won't open his. Privacy, she says. Adam doesn't make a fuss, but dutifully obeys. Eve, however, on a number of occasions, accidentally continues to open Adam's mail.

Please choose one of the two choices below which best describes your interpretation of the situation:

a) Nothing to see here - move along. If Adam has a problem, he is being unnecessarily suspicious, and should be ashamed of himself for mistrusting Eve.

b) Houston - we have a problem. To quote Shakespeare, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

All opinions gratefully received.
I haver never been married, but I'm within your age range (46) so maybe I can shed some light on where she may be coming from. As a postmenopausal woman, I know how difficult this change can be. Our only "power" over males, as society would have it, is our sexual attractiveness. No matter how good we cook, clean, organize, and care for our loved ones, most often our efforts to do these things are considered a "given." When we are in our reproductive years, we are able to use our sex appeal, to influence our male counterpart, not so much when that time span is over. Maybe she is seeking compensation for all the things she contributes that are taken as "givens." Just a thought, hope you don't take it wrong.

I am not sure how using sex as a cattle prod when you can, then resorting to theft when you can't makes for a sensible solution.
If you are married (or in a live in serious relationship), wait a few years until your wife hits menopause and she has no leverage she wants to offer for goodies or honey do's. If you're not "married," or are gay, you'll never get it.

If you started off using sex as a cattle prod, I can understand why you think that.

Yeah, I am married. I engage in my "honey do" stuff because it needs to be done around the house. Her leverage comes from actually doing the honey do's to afford me a bit of recreational time. Sex is a fun thing we engage in when we feel like it. Its not a reward and I am not a conditioned animal in some bizarre Pavlovian experiment.
so you think...... JK - Actually I hope she really does enjoy it as much as you do.

I'm not saying this is an ideal way to live, or pre planned. We (females) have sexual expectations too, that if they aren't met after years of thinking eventually they will be, then eventually we give sex as a reward system. When our hormones change and it diminishes any desire we had to even give sex because it pleases the man we love, we fear we'll lose him for cutting off the rewards, and may try to set aside some money if that were to take place.