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Is Not Having Kids Selfish?

Rosalie
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8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.
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ThinkBig
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8/20/2016 3:59:23 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

I am childfree by choice, meaning that under no circumstances do I ever want children.

I don't think people who don't want children are selfish. I believe that not everyone should have children and there are some pretty god-awful parents out there.

The logic they use is called a "Bingo" because they say the same thing over and over again to justify trying to force children on everyone.

http://7deadlysinners.typepad.com...

I also absolutely hate kids.
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1harderthanyouthink
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8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
It's actually the other way around.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Rosalie
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8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
1harderthanyouthink
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8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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PetersSmith
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8/20/2016 5:30:17 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

No. You don't have a moral obligation to have children. And sometimes it can even be a selfless decision, as shown by your examples. It's just a personal choice.
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Vox_Veritas
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8/20/2016 5:50:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

Some people say that childless women are selfish; others say that mothers who have children are selfish.
There is some merit to both claims; if you have a kid, well, you are contributing to overpopulation. Furthermore, if you are poor then there's a high chance your child will end up on welfare programs which are costly to society. In all fairness, though, taking care of a child is difficult work which requires much self-sacrifice and denial of pleasures. In this respect parenthood could be considered selfless.
On the other hand, society needs to replenish itself to prevent going extinct, and thus at least some people need to have kids. If no one has kids, then we're all screwed. Therefore, having kids could arguably be seen as a duty to society.
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Vox_Veritas
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8/20/2016 5:53:46 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.

But many people who are born go on to live happy lives.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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That1User
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8/20/2016 5:57:24 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

I don't think it's selfish, some people are not in the proper financial or emotional state to have children and raise children.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
foxxhajti
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8/20/2016 6:04:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

I'm a woman who doesn't want to have kids in the future either. I've had the opportunity to talk about this with my family. They had the same argument. Apart from that, another argument they've had was that one can only have a family, if there are kids involved. Since my family is really Christian, and they believe that sex should only be used for procreative reasons (and are anti-contraception), they believe that I should remain single. Also, they claim that no man will want to marry me/date me, due to my choice.

I don't think our decision is selfish. I don't think I'd be a good mother. I've had the opportunity of taking care of my sister on many occasions, since my mother works a lot, and I don't think I can handle it. People think that babies are "rainbows" and "happiness", but that's just not how they are. I think wanting kids, when you're incapable of taking care of them, for your own personal fulfillment, is more selfish than that. But that's just my opinion.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

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That1User
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8/20/2016 6:08:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.

I don't find it necessarily selfish, some parents may have experienced joyful lives and want their children to experience joy and love. I find the world to be amazing, and I'm glad my parents gave birth to me.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
That1User
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8/20/2016 6:15:50 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
I think wanting kids, when you're incapable of taking care of them, for your own personal fulfillment, is more selfish than that. But that's just my opinion.

I completely agree, potential parents should be able to take care of a child properly, sustain a stable income and employment to meet the child's needs properly, and be in the correct emotional state to do so as well.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
foxxhajti
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8/20/2016 6:18:50 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:15:50 PM, That1User wrote:
I think wanting kids, when you're incapable of taking care of them, for your own personal fulfillment, is more selfish than that. But that's just my opinion.

I completely agree, potential parents should be able to take care of a child properly, sustain a stable income and employment to meet the child's needs properly, and be in the correct emotional state to do so as well.

Exactly. Also, if the parents do not have a stable relationship between each other, and they also don't do enough planning about it, I think it can have its toll on their own relationship, on the relationship with their child and also on its upbringing.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
1harderthanyouthink
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8/20/2016 6:27:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 5:53:46 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.

But many people who are born go on to live happy lives.

Even so, it is not common that people have kids so the kids are happy - it's so they feel better about themselves.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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bsh1
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8/20/2016 6:32:08 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.

Is having kids morally wrong?
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1harderthanyouthink
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8/20/2016 6:33:08 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:32:08 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.

Is having kids morally wrong?

I wouldn't say so. Selfishness isn't inherently bad, but rather should exist only to a certain degree.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
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8/20/2016 6:38:30 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:33:08 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:32:08 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.

Is having kids morally wrong?

I wouldn't say so. Selfishness isn't inherently bad, but rather should exist only to a certain degree.

Okay.

I mean, I disagree that having kids is selfish. I know quite a few people who believe that they have a religious obligation to procreate.

But, I also think you're reducing the feelings of parents or would-be parents to something far too simplistic. Sure, they want kids for their own happiness, but that desire is mixed up with feelings of wanting to give the kid the best life possible, and wanting to devote 18 (or more) years of their life to the care of that child. Parental instincts are multifaceted and complex, and I don't think it's fair to simply label them as selfish and move on.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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That1User
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8/20/2016 6:41:25 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:18:50 PM, foxxhajti wrote:

Exactly. Also, if the parents do not have a stable relationship between each other, and they also don't do enough planning about it, I think it can have its toll on their own relationship, on the relationship with their child and also on its upbringing.

I relate to this personally, my parents had a volatile relationship which ended in divorce. I suppose this is the cause of my social problems.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
foxxhajti
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8/20/2016 6:46:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:41:25 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:18:50 PM, foxxhajti wrote:

Exactly. Also, if the parents do not have a stable relationship between each other, and they also don't do enough planning about it, I think it can have its toll on their own relationship, on the relationship with their child and also on its upbringing.

I relate to this personally, my parents had a volatile relationship which ended in divorce. I suppose this is the cause of my social problems.

My parents had gotten separated (back then, divorce wasn't legal here yet), when my mother was pregnant. She had attempted suicide because of this whole absurd situation. My mum once again, is in an unstable relationship, and had my sister. My sister is now growing up in an unstable family. I don't think it's healthy for a person to grow up in such an environment. I think it's selfish to bring a person in the world, when your relationship is pretty much wrecked.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
That1User
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8/20/2016 6:47:39 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:38:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:33:08 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:32:08 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:35:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:33:09 PM, Rosalie wrote:
At 8/20/2016 4:23:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It's actually the other way around.

And why is that?

Because you're forcing something into existence in a pretty sh!tty and depressing world for your own joy and fulfillment.

Is having kids morally wrong?

I wouldn't say so. Selfishness isn't inherently bad, but rather should exist only to a certain degree.

Okay.

I mean, I disagree that having kids is selfish. I know quite a few people who believe that they have a religious obligation to procreate.

But, I also think you're reducing the feelings of parents or would-be parents to something far too simplistic. Sure, they want kids for their own happiness, but that desire is mixed up with feelings of wanting to give the kid the best life possible, and wanting to devote 18 (or more) years of their life to the care of that child. Parental instincts are multifaceted and complex, and I don't think it's fair to simply label them as selfish and move on.
^
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
That1User
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8/20/2016 6:57:52 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:46:52 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:41:25 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:18:50 PM, foxxhajti wrote:

Exactly. Also, if the parents do not have a stable relationship between each other, and they also don't do enough planning about it, I think it can have its toll on their own relationship, on the relationship with their child and also on its upbringing.

I relate to this personally, my parents had a volatile relationship which ended in divorce. I suppose this is the cause of my social problems.

My parents had gotten separated (back then, divorce wasn't legal here yet), when my mother was pregnant. She had attempted suicide because of this whole absurd situation. My mum once again, is in an unstable relationship, and had my sister. My sister is now growing up in an unstable family. I don't think it's healthy for a person to grow up in such an environment. I think it's selfish to bring a person in the world, when your relationship is pretty much wrecked.

My parents had my sister before getting divorced, and then my mom went on to have 3 other children, and their father left them. Now my 4 siblings are in an unstable family situation. Fortunately my full sister and I live with our grandparents and make a decent income. Unfortunately my 3 little siblings live with my Mom and are dependent on welfare. I also think that it is wrong for children to live in instability and to bring children in such perilous circumstances. I'm sorry for your situation, I know how it's like to see your sister in such a bad state.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
foxxhajti
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8/20/2016 7:08:47 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 6:57:52 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:46:52 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:41:25 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:18:50 PM, foxxhajti wrote:

Exactly. Also, if the parents do not have a stable relationship between each other, and they also don't do enough planning about it, I think it can have its toll on their own relationship, on the relationship with their child and also on its upbringing.

I relate to this personally, my parents had a volatile relationship which ended in divorce. I suppose this is the cause of my social problems.

My parents had gotten separated (back then, divorce wasn't legal here yet), when my mother was pregnant. She had attempted suicide because of this whole absurd situation. My mum once again, is in an unstable relationship, and had my sister. My sister is now growing up in an unstable family. I don't think it's healthy for a person to grow up in such an environment. I think it's selfish to bring a person in the world, when your relationship is pretty much wrecked.

My parents had my sister before getting divorced, and then my mom went on to have 3 other children, and their father left them. Now my 4 siblings are in an unstable family situation. Fortunately my full sister and I live with our grandparents and make a decent income. Unfortunately my 3 little siblings live with my Mom and are dependent on welfare. I also think that it is wrong for children to live in instability and to bring children in such perilous circumstances. I'm sorry for your situation, I know how it's like to see your sister in such a bad state.

I also live with my grandparents. I remember we also used to rely on welfare, especially when our country was poorer. I'm sorry for your 3 siblings. I hope they'll have a happier life in the future. I don't want to sound insensitive, but I feel like more planning should have been made about it. I'm alright now, my sister though, is like some type of "object" that my mother's boyfriend threatens her with (which she shouldn't be). I used to warn her, before having my sister, but she didn't listen.
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
That1User
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8/20/2016 7:24:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 7:08:47 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:57:52 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:46:52 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:41:25 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:18:50 PM, foxxhajti wrote:

Exactly. Also, if the parents do not have a stable relationship between each other, and they also don't do enough planning about it, I think it can have its toll on their own relationship, on the relationship with their child and also on its upbringing.

I relate to this personally, my parents had a volatile relationship which ended in divorce. I suppose this is the cause of my social problems.

My parents had gotten separated (back then, divorce wasn't legal here yet), when my mother was pregnant. She had attempted suicide because of this whole absurd situation. My mum once again, is in an unstable relationship, and had my sister. My sister is now growing up in an unstable family. I don't think it's healthy for a person to grow up in such an environment. I think it's selfish to bring a person in the world, when your relationship is pretty much wrecked.

My parents had my sister before getting divorced, and then my mom went on to have 3 other children, and their father left them. Now my 4 siblings are in an unstable family situation. Fortunately my full sister and I live with our grandparents and make a decent income. Unfortunately my 3 little siblings live with my Mom and are dependent on welfare. I also think that it is wrong for children to live in instability and to bring children in such perilous circumstances. I'm sorry for your situation, I know how it's like to see your sister in such a bad state.

I also live with my grandparents. I remember we also used to rely on welfare, especially when our country was poorer. I'm sorry for your 3 siblings. I hope they'll have a happier life in the future. I don't want to sound insensitive, but I feel like more planning should have been made about it. I'm alright now, my sister though, is like some type of "object" that my mother's boyfriend threatens her with (which she shouldn't be). I used to warn her, before having my sister, but she didn't listen.

Thank you, I hope that your sister lives a happy and fulfilled life too. You're not insensitive in saying that more planning should have been made, it is true, there should have. Holy crap, that's horrible that your mom's boyfriend treats your sister as an object, I hope that ends soon.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
R13; Marcus Aurelius
"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." -Marcus Aurelius
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do. "-Voltaire
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8/20/2016 7:29:18 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 7:24:06 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 7:08:47 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:57:52 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:46:52 PM, foxxhajti wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:41:25 PM, That1User wrote:
At 8/20/2016 6:18:50 PM, foxxhajti wrote:

Exactly. Also, if the parents do not have a stable relationship between each other, and they also don't do enough planning about it, I think it can have its toll on their own relationship, on the relationship with their child and also on its upbringing.

I relate to this personally, my parents had a volatile relationship which ended in divorce. I suppose this is the cause of my social problems.

My parents had gotten separated (back then, divorce wasn't legal here yet), when my mother was pregnant. She had attempted suicide because of this whole absurd situation. My mum once again, is in an unstable relationship, and had my sister. My sister is now growing up in an unstable family. I don't think it's healthy for a person to grow up in such an environment. I think it's selfish to bring a person in the world, when your relationship is pretty much wrecked.

My parents had my sister before getting divorced, and then my mom went on to have 3 other children, and their father left them. Now my 4 siblings are in an unstable family situation. Fortunately my full sister and I live with our grandparents and make a decent income. Unfortunately my 3 little siblings live with my Mom and are dependent on welfare. I also think that it is wrong for children to live in instability and to bring children in such perilous circumstances. I'm sorry for your situation, I know how it's like to see your sister in such a bad state.

I also live with my grandparents. I remember we also used to rely on welfare, especially when our country was poorer. I'm sorry for your 3 siblings. I hope they'll have a happier life in the future. I don't want to sound insensitive, but I feel like more planning should have been made about it. I'm alright now, my sister though, is like some type of "object" that my mother's boyfriend threatens her with (which she shouldn't be). I used to warn her, before having my sister, but she didn't listen.

Thank you, I hope that your sister lives a happy and fulfilled life too. You're not insensitive in saying that more planning should have been made, it is true, there should have. Holy crap, that's horrible that your mom's boyfriend treats your sister as an object, I hope that ends soon.

Hopefully it does. My sister also happens to be autistic and quite young, so she doesn't yet understand what's going on. In the future though, I guess her father's neglect might be a bit "too much" for her (idk how to explain myself exactly, sorry). For now, she's happy, so there's nothing to worry about. I wish my mother had done some planning as well. Half of these problems would have probably never existed. Even when it comes to myself really. She should have definitely planned me. Good luck for the future :)
"It's interesting to observe that almost all truly worthy men have simple manners, and that simple manners are almost always taken as a sign of little worth" - Giacomo Leopardi

"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other." - Francesco Petrarca

"You too must not count too much on your reality as you feel it today, since like yesterday, it may prove an illusion for you tomorrow." - Luigi Pirandello
Capital
Posts: 588
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8/20/2016 7:33:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

Yeah I think so. We need to have 2 children per family to replace the family in terms of taking over jobs. Of course I dont support black people who are impoverished having families like the 70 percent single mother hood rating for the black mothers. That just continues the poverty.

Ofc there is exceptions like infertile women but other than that yeah selfish
Im not a Nazi
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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8/21/2016 3:21:15 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

Selfish? Who are they taking from? Are their unborn children distressed over their decision?

Are we selfish when we sterilize our pets?

Having children is a huge sacrifice and should never be undertaken by anyone that is not completely sure they want to invest 100%.
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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8/21/2016 11:39:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

Having kids is objectively harmful to the happiness of parents, there is a lot of good reason not to have them. Choosing not to have kids is about as selfish as choosing not to cut your hand off.

Having kids requires and incredible amount of time and energy, and if you are not EXCITED about that prospect, you have no business having kids. If you aren't willing to devote your life to children, don't have them.

Having kids should not be the default, it should be the result of a decision and only done by people willing to take on that burden.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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8/22/2016 1:55:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.

I mean, I don't know your friend's situation. The way I see it is this: each person has (in an ideal world) a large extended family who helped to form them into the person who they are today, and each person within that tree has a duty to nurture the next generation. Now, creating children may not be the way that they do that, but there is a responsibility to help in some way and to take part. Does your friend have a genuine reason to not have kids, like health issues? Does she have some sort of terrible disease which she does not wish to pass along? I imagine she isn't a lesbian, or just asexual, or plans to be celibate if she got her tubes tied. Those are all reasons to contribute to the health of your family in other ways.

But if her reasoning is 'none of this has anything to do with me, I'm going to go pursue an essentially hedonistic life', that sort of atomized outlook is myopic. She misses the effort, care, and love which went into nurturing her own development, which in many cases will seek to enfold the next generation, and which imposes a sort of duty.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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8/23/2016 2:12:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I do not want kids. At all. And yes, I think it's very selfish. That's the damn point - I'm doing this (avoiding pregnancy) because it's what I want. I've never thought selfishness was a bad thing, though. It's human nature. I only try to overcome it when it hurts others, and I don't think it hurts others at all that I'm not having children.
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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8/23/2016 4:16:22 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/20/2016 3:49:47 PM, Rosalie wrote:
So, this is an argument my parents come up with, when someone says they don't want children.
For example, one of my friends got her tubes tied, and my parents complained to me how it was selfish, etc..

To any f*ck wit who even tries that line, try this..............so how many kids have you adopted ?


Do you find a person who doesn't want to have children, to be a selfish person? If so, why? I mean, what if the person just isn't good with kids, or has some health issues, that may put them in risk during a pregnancy? Please share your thoughts.