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Symmetry of Attractive Faces

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,253
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1/10/2011 1:22:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Just saw a documentary on sex appeal explaining that faces that have features aligning with the golden ratio (also found everywhere in nature) are more attractive, even at a subconscious level. For example, the ratio between the length of your mouth and the width of your nose would be used to determine how close it is to the golden ratio.

Do you agree that beauty can be objectively determined using symmetry and mathematics?

Or is it the unsymmetrical bits that make a face unique and more attractive?
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Danielle
Posts: 24,272
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1/10/2011 1:29:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yep, I've heard this... and to this day I still try and figure out if the people I find hot are symmetrical by analyzing their facial features lol. I once heard that Elizabeth Hurley had the most symmetrical celebrity face. It seemingly makes sense - especially because societies for the most part can agree on an attractive face - though obviously it's a little shakey considering some people find others attractive while I find them heinous. I've also heard that PROPORTION in addition to symmetry is of utmost importance regarding facial features. Objective beauty is a great topic in and of itself. If this were to have merit, it would be a great talking point for the issue.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/10/2011 2:04:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think there is a lot of credibility to the study, and anecdotally it seems to add up. But even then I believe there are likely unknown variables that vary from person to person, culture to culture. Some b*tch with saggy, pendulous breasts, and grotesquely hairy armpits, with the facial symmetry of a donkey does it for some men in some cultures.

I don't find Aboriginees particularly attractive, but obviously among themselves there's an attraction. I could have the facial symmetry of Adonis and I doubt I would be able to compete with their males for a mate... not that I would want to ;)
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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,278
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4/20/2013 12:57:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
^ look at this cast of All Stars
The wise have eyes in their heads, while the fool walks in the darkness; but I came to realizethat the same fate overtakes them both.
Then I said to myself,
"The fate of the fool will overtake me also.
What then do I gain by being wise?"
I said to myself, "This too is meaningless."
For the wise, like the fool, will not be long remembered;
the days have already come when both have been forgotten.
Like the fool, the wise too must die!
- Ecclesiastes 2:14-16
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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4/20/2013 1:01:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/20/2013 12:57:23 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
^ look at this cast of All Stars

...not cool. That's all I'll say.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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4/20/2013 7:32:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You could create a subjective hierarchy with criteria like "lips, eyes, symmetry" whatever but they would all ultimately be based on subjective hierarchies.

A different question is exactly how the human brain takes symmetry into consideration.

Consider, for instance, that mixed-race individuals also have a statistically significant correlation with attractiveness. http://www.rationalskepticism.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 13,014
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4/20/2013 7:36:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos -- Alll the asymmetries of the face that you get used to are flipped and appear more obvious.
"In case anyone hasn't noticed it, the West is in extremis. The undertaker is checking his watch at the foot of its bed, and there's a sinister kettle of croaking, money-feathered vultures on the roof."
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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4/20/2013 7:47:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/20/2013 7:36:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos -- Alll the asymmetries of the face that you get used to are flipped and appear more obvious.

What do you mean by "flipped"? You can only see your own face through reflections and cameras...
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dylancatlow
Posts: 13,014
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4/20/2013 7:49:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/20/2013 7:47:20 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:36:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos -- Alll the asymmetries of the face that you get used to are flipped and appear more obvious.

What do you mean by "flipped"? You can only see your own face through reflections and cameras...

I mean a picture portrays someone's face flipped to how we normally see it.
"In case anyone hasn't noticed it, the West is in extremis. The undertaker is checking his watch at the foot of its bed, and there's a sinister kettle of croaking, money-feathered vultures on the roof."
Sui_Generis
Posts: 2,684
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4/21/2013 12:10:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/20/2013 7:49:07 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:47:20 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:36:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos -- Alll the asymmetries of the face that you get used to are flipped and appear more obvious.

What do you mean by "flipped"? You can only see your own face through reflections and cameras...

I mean a picture portrays someone's face flipped to how we normally see it.

I'll assume you were just careless with your initial language? "people think they". "People find themselves less attractive in photos"
"How true it is that words are but vague shadows of the volumes we mean. Little audible links they are, chaining together great inaudible feelings and purposes."

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dylancatlow
Posts: 13,014
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4/21/2013 12:14:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/21/2013 12:10:22 AM, Sui_Generis wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:49:07 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:47:20 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:36:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos -- Alll the asymmetries of the face that you get used to are flipped and appear more obvious.

What do you mean by "flipped"? You can only see your own face through reflections and cameras...

I mean a picture portrays someone's face flipped to how we normally see it.

I'll assume you were just careless with your initial language? "people think they". "People find themselves less attractive in photos"

?
"In case anyone hasn't noticed it, the West is in extremis. The undertaker is checking his watch at the foot of its bed, and there's a sinister kettle of croaking, money-feathered vultures on the roof."
Smithereens
Posts: 6,974
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4/21/2013 12:41:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/20/2013 12:57:23 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
^ look at this cast of All Stars

lol you would bump a 2 year old thread just to point that out.. >.<
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Sui_Generis
Posts: 2,684
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4/21/2013 10:48:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/20/2013 7:47:20 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:36:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos -- Alll the asymmetries of the face that you get used to are flipped and appear more obvious.

What do you mean by "flipped"? You can only see your own face through reflections and cameras...

I'm assuming this is what happened:

You said this: "This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos" meaning "This is part of the reason people think they [meaning themselves--antecedent "people"] look less attractive in photos"

Bossy misinterpreted, thinking that "they" meant "people with asymmetrical faces" aka NOT themselves and was confused, since people look the same in person as they do in photos.
"How true it is that words are but vague shadows of the volumes we mean. Little audible links they are, chaining together great inaudible feelings and purposes."

"You are beginning to become less bland." - Wylted
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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4/27/2013 12:45:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2011 1:22:21 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Just saw a documentary on sex appeal explaining that faces that have features aligning with the golden ratio (also found everywhere in nature) are more attractive, even at a subconscious level. For example, the ratio between the length of your mouth and the width of your nose would be used to determine how close it is to the golden ratio.

Do you agree that beauty can be objectively determined using symmetry and mathematics?

Or is it the unsymmetrical bits that make a face unique and more attractive?

There are feminine characteristics to the face as well. On an interesting side note, women with large breasts are more likely to be fertile now, while women with attractive faces are more likely to be attractive long-term. Hence men look at bodies for pickups, but beautiful faces for relationships.
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RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,075
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4/27/2013 2:05:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I call bullsh*t on face symmetry = attractiveness. According to this "face attractiveness analyses", I have an asymmetrical face, but I still scored pretty well.

http://www.debate.org...
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,075
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4/27/2013 2:06:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2013 2:05:40 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I call bullsh*t on face symmetry = attractiveness. According to this "face attractiveness analyses", I have an asymmetrical face, but I still scored pretty well.

http://www.debate.org...

Here's the site if anyone wants to give it a try =)

http://www.anaface.com...
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,075
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4/27/2013 2:15:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2013 2:06:30 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 4/27/2013 2:05:40 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I call bullsh*t on face symmetry = attractiveness. According to this "face attractiveness analyses", I have an asymmetrical face, but I still scored pretty well.

http://www.debate.org...

Here's the site if anyone wants to give it a try =)

http://www.anaface.com...

It's probably not super accurate though. I've found that I can change my score about 1/3 of a point just by making small adjustments.

http://www.debate.org...
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 9,085
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4/27/2013 10:16:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I did my final presentation and 20-page paper in my behavior modification class on where our idea of beauty comes from. I can to the conclusion, from looking at ancient artwork and comparing it to modern trends, especially significant changes since the advent of mass media, that beauty has no objectivity to it. That it's a construct dependent upon pairing sexual stimuli with certain facial attributes, and that the two become subconsciously associated, forming a standard of beauty. If beauty was objective you wouldn't see such drastic changes in, for example, the Japanese standards when it comes to eye shape. They were radically changed over the course of a single generation, to the point where Ayumi Hamasaki, who was ridiculed for her 'bug eyes' as a child eventually became seen as a paragon of beauty. Then you look at someone like Hibari Misora, and artwork of Amaterasu, and you see a drastic shift in standards that defies any attempt at objective classification. Sure, people may seem to objectively dislike 'flaws' like asymmetry on the surface, but how to you explain the brief infatuation with beauty marks, to the point where women would paint one on to appear more beautiful?
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tulle
Posts: 4,445
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4/27/2013 11:54:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2013 10:16:03 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I did my final presentation and 20-page paper in my behavior modification class on where our idea of beauty comes from. I can to the conclusion, from looking at ancient artwork and comparing it to modern trends, especially significant changes since the advent of mass media, that beauty has no objectivity to it. That it's a construct dependent upon pairing sexual stimuli with certain facial attributes, and that the two become subconsciously associated, forming a standard of beauty. If beauty was objective you wouldn't see such drastic changes in, for example, the Japanese standards when it comes to eye shape. They were radically changed over the course of a single generation, to the point where Ayumi Hamasaki, who was ridiculed for her 'bug eyes' as a child eventually became seen as a paragon of beauty. Then you look at someone like Hibari Misora, and artwork of Amaterasu, and you see a drastic shift in standards that defies any attempt at objective classification. Sure, people may seem to objectively dislike 'flaws' like asymmetry on the surface, but how to you explain the brief infatuation with beauty marks, to the point where women would paint one on to appear more beautiful?

Interesting!
yang.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,749
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4/27/2013 7:41:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/20/2013 7:49:07 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:47:20 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/20/2013 7:36:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
This is part of the reason people think they look less attractive in photos -- Alll the asymmetries of the face that you get used to are flipped and appear more obvious.

What do you mean by "flipped"? You can only see your own face through reflections and cameras...

I mean a picture portrays someone's face flipped to how we normally see it.

No, it doesn't.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater