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Chomsky is an evasive cvnt

dylancatlow
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9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Hi, Noam. As you probably know, Steven Pinker spent most of his teenage years a convinced anarchist, but upon witnessing the aftermath of the Montreal police riots in which the sudden absence of police gave way to an outburst of criminal activity and chaos, he felt compelled to abandon his philosophy on the basis of this "experiment," concluding that anarchism really does lead to chaos as its critics had warned. The idea that such events would cause someone to turn against anarchism only seems possible given a quite superficial understanding of anarchism, for reasons described below. And although Pinker came to this conclusion as a child, he nevertheless still holds onto the notion that the Montreal police riots offer an eloquent refutation of fundamental anarchist assumptions, so it seems fair to discuss it.

To begin with, during his time as an anarchist Pinker presumably regarded the existing power structures and social arrangements as quite unnatural for those living under them. Under such unnatural conditions, is it reasonable to expect human nature to immediately express itself upon the spontaneous lifting of these conditions, particularly when they had been imposed for thousands of years, often violently? If states are violent and unjust institutions, are individuals living within states simply immune to the internalization of these violent and selfish tendencies, no exceptions allowed? There will be pathological individuals in any society, stateless or not, but for an anarchist to interpret every crime committed in the sudden absence of police as simply an expression of raw human nature and an example of "what we can expect under anarchism," seems quite absurd. Indeed, most of the crimes were committed for selfish material gain on the assumption that capitalism and "order" would be returning very soon -- not on the assumption that "anarchism" was to be the new social order.

It seems quite disingenuous to call this "anarchism" at all. True, certain elements of the state had temporarily ceased to exist, but everyone knew this was only temporary, so no one attempted to build a society organized on different principles. No anarchist believes the mere absence of the state is intrinsically good and peaceful -- it must be replaced with something else. Most people feel, and have been lead to believe, that anarchism would obviously lead to chaos. It's only natural that in the uncertain transition from state to something resembling anarchism, some would act in what they saw as the natural response to stateless conditions, contribution to the chaos they expected to happen anyway, without the benefit of having this assumption empirically undermined, and without stateless organization having time to develop in response.

Moreover, the sudden absence of police meant that anyone who had ever wanted to commit a crime, but had found themselves deterred by the knowledge that police were around, saw this as their one opportunity to get away with it. What Pinker witnessed was the release of pent up grievances and criminal tendencies accumulated over many years, as well as crimes of certain pathological individuals spurred on by the heat of the moment, all compressed into a few hours. His extrapolations are therefore very dubious. Perhaps Pinker is right in his assessment of anarchism, but the events of the Montreal police riots do not supply us with enough information to decide the issue.

Do you disagree with any of my points, or do you have any of your own to add?

His response: I have no idea whether Pinker was ever interested in anarchism, but this event has no relevance to the validity of anarchist visions of a free and just society.
n7
Posts: 1,360
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9/29/2016 11:27:53 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
Chomsky has nothing better to do than respond to Dylan's essays.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
dylancatlow
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9/30/2016 12:30:18 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 11:27:53 PM, n7 wrote:
Chomsky has nothing better to do than respond to Dylan's essays.

He responds to pretty much everyone, sometimes within 5 minutes.
dylancatlow
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9/30/2016 4:33:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 11:27:53 PM, n7 wrote:
Chomsky has nothing better to do than respond to Dylan's essays.

So you're right, he has no life
dylancatlow
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9/30/2016 4:44:41 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
I find it a bit hard to believe Chomsky knew nothing of pinker's childhood interest in anarchism. The two were colleagues for many years, working in the same field .... Did the topic of anarchism just never arise? Maybe pinker was careful to avoid the subject, knowing that Chomsky would go crazy on him if he found out
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,236
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10/4/2016 5:20:50 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/30/2016 4:44:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I find it a bit hard to believe Chomsky knew nothing of pinker's childhood interest in anarchism. The two were colleagues for many years, working in the same field .... Did the topic of anarchism just never arise? Maybe pinker was careful to avoid the subject, knowing that Chomsky would go crazy on him if he found out

Maybe he was fed up with your inane interrogation.
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PetersSmith
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10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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dylancatlow
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10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?
PetersSmith
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10/4/2016 6:19:39 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?

The title of the thread. Did you confess your love for him yet?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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10/4/2016 6:35:56 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/4/2016 6:19:39 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?

The title of the thread. Did you confess your love for him yet?

What, best friends never get into fights? You sure do like to make assumptions!
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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10/4/2016 6:36:48 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/4/2016 6:35:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:19:39 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?

The title of the thread. Did you confess your love for him yet?

What, best friends never get into fights? You sure do like to make assumptions!

This doesn't seem like a fight. More like he's annoyed with you.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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10/5/2016 7:08:01 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/4/2016 6:36:48 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:35:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:19:39 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?

The title of the thread. Did you confess your love for him yet?

What, best friends never get into fights? You sure do like to make assumptions!

This doesn't seem like a fight. More like he's annoyed with you.

Nice try.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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10/5/2016 7:54:51 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/5/2016 7:08:01 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:36:48 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:35:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:19:39 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?

The title of the thread. Did you confess your love for him yet?

What, best friends never get into fights? You sure do like to make assumptions!

This doesn't seem like a fight. More like he's annoyed with you.

Nice try.

It's not really "try", more like an outsider observation.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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10/5/2016 8:02:25 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/5/2016 7:54:51 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/5/2016 7:08:01 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:36:48 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:35:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:19:39 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?

The title of the thread. Did you confess your love for him yet?

What, best friends never get into fights? You sure do like to make assumptions!

This doesn't seem like a fight. More like he's annoyed with you.

Nice try.

It's not really "try", more like an outsider observation.

Stop trying to get in the way of our relationship
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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10/5/2016 8:06:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 10/5/2016 8:02:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/5/2016 7:54:51 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/5/2016 7:08:01 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:36:48 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:35:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 6:19:39 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 10/4/2016 5:44:30 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/4/2016 2:30:06 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/29/2016 7:32:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Why did you address him as "Noam" like you two are best buds?

What makes you think we're not besties?

The title of the thread. Did you confess your love for him yet?

What, best friends never get into fights? You sure do like to make assumptions!

This doesn't seem like a fight. More like he's annoyed with you.

Nice try.

It's not really "try", more like an outsider observation.

Stop trying to get in the way of our relationship

Umm, okay.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...