Total Posts:14|Showing Posts:1-14
Jump to topic:

Rant

YYW
Posts: 36,339
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.
Tsar of DDO
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,848
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 1:36:15 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

Oh joy, now you're moving onto misogyny.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 1:41:24 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

Brace yourself .
Good luck.
YYW
Posts: 36,339
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 2:23:32 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 1:36:15 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

Oh joy, now you're moving onto misogyny.

Be a part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,339
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 2:23:55 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 1:41:24 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

Brace yourself .
Good luck.

Honestly I'll need it.
Tsar of DDO
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,087
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 2:25:24 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

I lost faith in you when you started supporting Trump. Then you seemingly came to your senses, and I saw hope. But it obviously wasn't Trump's sexism that disgusted you, so what was it?
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
~mysteriouscrystals

"I've honestly never seen seventh post anything that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny way."
~F-16

https://docs.google.com...
YYW
Posts: 36,339
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 2:28:55 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:25:24 AM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

I lost faith in you when you started supporting Trump. Then you seemingly came to your senses, and I saw hope. But it obviously wasn't Trump's sexism that disgusted you, so what was it?

I don't care if he's a sexist.
Tsar of DDO
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 2:50:39 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 819
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 3:32:19 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 2:28:55 AM, YYW wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:25:24 AM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

I lost faith in you when you started supporting Trump. Then you seemingly came to your senses, and I saw hope. But it obviously wasn't Trump's sexism that disgusted you, so what was it?

I don't care if he's a sexist.

Why is that?
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
YYW
Posts: 36,339
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 4:00:35 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 3:32:19 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:28:55 AM, YYW wrote:
At 11/19/2016 2:25:24 AM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

I lost faith in you when you started supporting Trump. Then you seemingly came to your senses, and I saw hope. But it obviously wasn't Trump's sexism that disgusted you, so what was it?

I don't care if he's a sexist.

Why is that?

People voted for him. I didn't. They have to live with their choices.

Maybe the women and girls who failed to vote for Hillary Clinton will get their priorities in line.
Tsar of DDO
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,766
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 5:54:37 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/19/2016 1:25:17 AM, YYW wrote:
I am involved in numerous professional and academic contexts. All of those contexts have the same expected level of decorum. This will seem odd for me, given that I tend to be among the more aggressive members here... but the reason that that's pretty much always been the case is because of the level of other people's bullshit_I have to deal with inside and outside the classroom.

Girls, it seems, more than any other people, seem to have the most problems dealing with others in a professional way. Type A women, specifically, are among the worst employees and professional students (JD students, MBA students, etc.) because they feel threatened by men, by girls who are prettier than they are, and any number of other stupid and trivial things.

I don't know if this applies specifically to "women" more than "men," though I agree 100% that "type A" personalities are impossible to work with. Or at least the experience isn't enjoyable.

More specifically, it has been my consistent experience that between 65-75% of women or girls in law school or in their professional careers feel like they have something to prove such that whenever any person who is smarter than them, more qualified then them, who is a better writer than they are, makes more money than they do, etc. presents themselves.... they get bitchy. Let me be clear with respect to what I mean when I say "bitchy" because even though this is the literal reason that sexism exists in the workplace, it's not "sexism" in the sense that it's motivated by hatred of women.

I've seen this a lot, too. I can't say if it's 75% but it's definitely a large number.

No. It's motivated by the way that type A women conduct themselves in professional settings. Passive aggression, a tendency to correct people when they are wrong, an inclination to adopt a tone that is so wildly out of line no person should be subject to dealing with it... all of those things are why women make less money (and deserve to make less money) than men. Their toxic behavior (not all women, just the type A's here) is the reason why glass ceilings exist, why they do not get promoted over equally qualified (on paper) men, and why women do not exist in leadership positions in law firms and businesses across the country.

Unfortunately, yes.

That's the dirty little secret about the wage gap... women undermine productivity by perpetuating female stereotypes, and as such, contribute less relative value to companies than men. Then, when they don't get hired or promoted because their attitudes were so toxic that they undermine workplace productivity, they sue for employment discrimination, another unneeded and totally specious transactional cost. Women who do not act like this seem, I think, to self select themselves out of professional settings... or at least competitive professional settings. They become mothers, nurses, teachers, professors, leaders of non-profits or NGOs, etc. That is why I am comfortable with the majority percentage I said.

For obvious reasons, I've also spent time in professional environments, and I mostly agree with what you're saying. It's actually something I talk about with a friend all the time -- we both can't stand the type As that you're referring to.

Also, re: wage gap -- it's such bullsh!t. I've seen women -- entry-level associates -- make more than entry-level men, not because of gender, but because they deserved higher pay (i.e. they performed better on every metric you could think of). I've also seen the reverse. People care about making money, and doing good work, and they're not gonna compromise that just to keep an old boys club going.
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,683
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 6:25:14 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
"I had a dream that one day we would judge people by the contents of their hearts and not the antigen receptors of their red blood cells." -Martin Luther King
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,766
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2016 6:47:23 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
Also, if I may indulge a rant myself re: working in the law --

The obsession with productivity -- and in the legal field, the "billable hour" as a metric for productivity -- is by far the biggest problem I've seen in professional environments. In the law, as YYW knows, the focus at most firms is on billing clients based on the number of hours you work. Some places do things differently -- and those are generally better places to work -- but the vast majority of legal jobs have billable hour requirements. So you've got people working 60+ hours a week to do things they could -- or should -- do in half that time, because they're measuring their success not by the quality of their work, or how efficient they are, but rather on hours worked, period. Of course, that leads to miserable, stressed out, unnecessarily toxic people. The work product suffers. Because they don't even care about the work they're doing -- they're just trying to make sure they hit a billable requirement, or get a bigger bonus, or whatever.

So, you end up with the sort of type A personalities who struggle to develop a career because they've lost any semblance of character while trying to work longer hours than their peers. This starts in law school; people think they should work more than others because of the way grades are curved. It continues in law firms, because of the billable hour. And, I think this happens to women more than men, and it's for the simple reason that they obsess over their productivity more than men. I can't say why they do this, though I think some of the things YYW talks about have some merit.

For some reason, a lot of type A women seem to think they need to work "more" than anyone else if they're going to succeed. And these women (and some men, too) believe that it's okay (or even necessary) to sacrifice their non-working life. No doubt, their families suffer. If they have one. Others think having a family isn't even an option. They need to make sure they're billing X hours each week, no time for other things. But what they don't realize is that if you're working 2x more hours than someone, the person working less hours is going to be happier and more enjoyable to be around.

Who is going to get a promotion? Who are clients going to hire? Personally, I'd promote or hire the person who is more enjoyable to be around, more enjoyable to work with, and who has built up habits of efficiency and balance throughout their career because they didn't want to work 60 hours a week. I think most people would do the same. They might not realize that until the time actually comes for promoting or hiring someone, but that's how things go. The person who has billed twice as many hours, to the detriment of their personality and social life, isn't the person anyone wants to work with, and it's definitely not who I'd want handling a case if I were looking for a lawyer. Yet I've seen this happen to bunch of women in the law, who somehow think they're more deserving because they worked harder or longer hours. As lawyers like to quip, they miss the forest for the trees.
YYW
Posts: 36,339
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2016 6:45:00 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
I appreciate FT's thoughts, and I can generally attest to the accuracy of most of them.

Most people when they start out their careers have to decide if they're going to be billing lawyers or real lawyers. I can do in one hour what it takes most five to seven to do.

I think I just write faster and read faster than they do. I also type pretty fast. I think they're also lazy.
Tsar of DDO