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Are some aspects of insanity subjective?

innomen
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2/14/2011 7:21:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't mean the obvious cases of schizophrenia and such, but those who are just way off the norm in behavior. HOw much of what we consider sane behavior, really just social conformity? I don't mean the adolescent types who are non-conforming like all the others that are non-conforming out of rebellion. I mean someone who just refuses to adhere to social norms. Essentially my question is, how dependent is our concept of sanity on social norms, and when does it cross the line to medical imbalances within the brain?

Some behavioral "problems" may well have been learned, like obsessive compulsive disorders, dunno, i'm not a psychiatrist. If someone has a maladapted behavioral "problem" is it really a subjective judgment?
TheSkeptic
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2/14/2011 7:29:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's definitely an interesting question for psychologists to debate about, and I'm sure extensive discussions have been had. My exposure to this subject is fairly limited, mainly tid bits from Foucault.
tvellalott
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2/14/2011 6:53:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Of course. I think anyone who honestly believes they speak to God is insane.
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belle
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2/14/2011 6:57:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
hard to say since i'm not sure what you're talking about. most people if they're really going to be labelled "insane" are hearing voices or incapable of caring for themselves. i suppose you could make the argument that someone who is very lax about self-hygene and such is simply violating social norms rather than ill... but depending on how extreme the behavior is i think it would be a hard sell :P

i do think its amusing however, that out of context religious beliefs seem supremely insane. no doubt one could make the case for certain political beliefs as well... i mean how many times has ragnar been called a psychopath around here? lol...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/14/2011 9:32:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Insanity is said to be trying the same thing over and over again in the same way(That last part is key, because people do learn from their past mistakes, and eventually do get it), and expecting different results.

I could go with that. I think one defining characteristic of insanity though is obsessive persistence.

Now mentally ill on the other hand.. that is a different story. In my opinion, a completely mentally healthy person will look mentally ill to the mentally ill.

Most people I consider to be mentally ill.

Until you reach a point to where you are in a state of contentment, where no desire can disturb this.. You are mentally ill.

Emotional instability is the surest sign of mental illness. Taking things too seriously is another sure sign of mental illness. A constant living in any other state than the present is a sign of mental illness.

Everyone is able to cure their own mental illnesses.. It is usually just a matter of awareness, and then it all sorts itself out.

I was chronically depressed up until maybe 2 years ago. Now I am in a state of never ending contentment and bliss. I have the appearance of being crazy or weird to alot of truly mentally ill people, but really I am just free. Those who have a sense of humor and aren't so quick to judge usually realize that I know exactly what I'm doing.

I prefer eccentric to crazy or weird anyway, it has a nicer ring to it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/14/2011 9:47:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/14/2011 7:21:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I don't mean the obvious cases of schizophrenia and such, but those who are just way off the norm in behavior. HOw much of what we consider sane behavior, really just social conformity?:

Reminds me of a 12 Monkeys scene. (Embedding is not allowed for this video, so double-click on it to watch it on YouTube).

Some behavioral "problems" may well have been learned, like obsessive compulsive disorders, dunno, i'm not a psychiatrist. If someone has a maladapted behavioral "problem" is it really a subjective judgment?:

You bring up a very interesting concept, and one that I myself have contemplated. Unfortunately there's no real way to confirm it absolutely in either direction. But we have seen over the years groups like the APA inventing maladies and then completely changing their opinion. Take for instance your [condition], homosexuality. Homosexuality was a degenerative sexual disorder for years and years, and people who "suffered" from it were ill and in need of treatment.

Well, along come the P.C. police, it gains more and more acceptance in the mainstream, and lo' and behold, the tables have turned. Now only crazy people hate homosexuality.

And we see this construct that is created by doctors and psychiatrists. Ever read Freud or Kinsey? Their efforts in the field of psychology more than likely have a lot of merit, but in my opinion, a lot of it was deranged. Kinsey and Freud, as best I can tell, were sexual sadists and masochists. Kinsey, for instance, conducted some very macabre "tests" on adolescents that any one in today's zeitgeist would call pedophilia.

So, like Brad Pitt's character in 12 Monkey's, he makes a good point. It often boils down to popular opinion -- consensus.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
annhasle
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2/14/2011 10:16:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/14/2011 9:47:30 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/14/2011 7:21:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I don't mean the obvious cases of schizophrenia and such, but those who are just way off the norm in behavior. How much of what we consider sane behavior, really just social conformity?:

So, like Brad Pitt's character in 12 Monkey's, he makes a good point. It often boils down to popular opinion -- consensus.

I would agree with this -- to an extent. It really depends on the mental illness. I would say that if the mental disorder impairs quality of daily life by causing negative habits and/or distress to the individual, then it should be analyzed and resolved through therapeutic and/or medical practices -- and to do so, objective/standard guideline criteria is needed. Although, overall, it does exist... It becomes harder to facilitate based upon culture and stigmas. In the U.S., there is a stigma against suicide and depression -- I'm confronted with it every time I do a presentation to local schools. But, until we educate the younger generations about mental disorders, they will exist and make things harder for not only the patients, but also their families and therapists/doctors.

Like PARADIGM stated, culture definitely affects the attitudes of people when confronted with certain conditions -- like homosexuality -- which then creates the idea that all conditions which are alternative to the norm must be "wrong" and therefore treated. Then again, if you study the country where the mentality can be found, you'll also find that the "norm" is incredibly restricted due to excessively closed minds. It's very hard for objective viewing of the human psyche -- and therefore diagnosis or therapy -- when preconceived notions of such a condition are holding you back as a practitioner. Then again, such societies are unaware of these bias and that creates even more problems...

<sigh>
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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2/14/2011 10:38:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/14/2011 10:16:58 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/14/2011 9:47:30 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/14/2011 7:21:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I don't mean the obvious cases of schizophrenia and such, but those who are just way off the norm in behavior. How much of what we consider sane behavior, really just social conformity?:

So, like Brad Pitt's character in 12 Monkey's, he makes a good point. It often boils down to popular opinion -- consensus.

I would agree with this -- to an extent. It really depends on the mental illness. I would say that if the mental disorder impairs quality of daily life by causing negative habits and/or distress to the individual, then it should be analyzed and resolved through therapeutic and/or medical practices -- and to do so, objective/standard guideline criteria is needed. Although, overall, it does exist... It becomes harder to facilitate based upon culture and stigmas. In the U.S., there is a stigma against suicide and depression -- I'm confronted with it every time I do a presentation to local schools. But, until we educate the younger generations about mental disorders, they will exist and make things harder for not only the patients, but also their families and therapists/doctors.

Like PARADIGM stated, culture definitely affects the attitudes of people when confronted with certain conditions -- like homosexuality -- which then creates the idea that all conditions which are alternative to the norm must be "wrong" and therefore treated. Then again, if you study the country where the mentality can be found, you'll also find that the "norm" is incredibly restricted due to excessively closed minds. It's very hard for objective viewing of the human psyche -- and therefore diagnosis or therapy -- when preconceived notions of such a condition are holding you back as a practitioner. Then again, such societies are unaware of these bias and that creates even more problems...

<sigh>

I'm curious.

Are you familiar with Ecopsychology and their position that, since modern man has been destroying his own natural habitat, our society itself is an environment that creates mental illness? In other words, you cannot live and prosper in modern city without becoming somewhat psychologically damaged.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/14/2011 10:48:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/14/2011 10:38:46 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 2/14/2011 10:16:58 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/14/2011 9:47:30 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/14/2011 7:21:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I don't mean the obvious cases of schizophrenia and such, but those who are just way off the norm in behavior. How much of what we consider sane behavior, really just social conformity?:

So, like Brad Pitt's character in 12 Monkey's, he makes a good point. It often boils down to popular opinion -- consensus.

I would agree with this -- to an extent. It really depends on the mental illness. I would say that if the mental disorder impairs quality of daily life by causing negative habits and/or distress to the individual, then it should be analyzed and resolved through therapeutic and/or medical practices -- and to do so, objective/standard guideline criteria is needed. Although, overall, it does exist... It becomes harder to facilitate based upon culture and stigmas. In the U.S., there is a stigma against suicide and depression -- I'm confronted with it every time I do a presentation to local schools. But, until we educate the younger generations about mental disorders, they will exist and make things harder for not only the patients, but also their families and therapists/doctors.

Like PARADIGM stated, culture definitely affects the attitudes of people when confronted with certain conditions -- like homosexuality -- which then creates the idea that all conditions which are alternative to the norm must be "wrong" and therefore treated. Then again, if you study the country where the mentality can be found, you'll also find that the "norm" is incredibly restricted due to excessively closed minds. It's very hard for objective viewing of the human psyche -- and therefore diagnosis or therapy -- when preconceived notions of such a condition are holding you back as a practitioner. Then again, such societies are unaware of these bias and that creates even more problems...

<sigh>

I'm curious.

Are you familiar with Ecopsychology and their position that, since modern man has been destroying his own natural habitat, our society itself is an environment that creates mental illness? In other words, you cannot live and prosper in modern city without becoming somewhat psychologically damaged.

Yes, I am familiar with that position -- and do agree with it. You can, and will be, psychologically damaged throughout your life. However, since many disorders are genetic as well, I would not say that society is the only source of mental impairment.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
tigg13
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2/14/2011 10:54:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/14/2011 10:48:56 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/14/2011 10:38:46 PM, tigg13 wrote:


I'm curious.

Are you familiar with Ecopsychology and their position that, since modern man has been destroying his own natural habitat, our society itself is an environment that creates mental illness? In other words, you cannot live and prosper in modern city without becoming somewhat psychologically damaged.

Yes, I am familiar with that position -- and do agree with it. You can, and will be, psychologically damaged throughout your life. However, since many disorders are genetic as well, I would not say that society is the only source of mental impairment.

Couldn't agree with you more.
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/14/2011 11:05:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Even in contemporary society, it is possible to be free from inner turmoil. Society only makes more obvious the dissonances that have always been there... This makes it all the more important to resolve these dissonances.

See the beauty in ugly.. See the ugly in beauty.. Realize how strange it is to be alive, and how absurd everything is. Stop giving so much of a fvck. Humor is essential to keeping your sanity, especially in todays world.. Where ignorance and stupidity are the reigning virtues.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
tigg13
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2/15/2011 12:29:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/14/2011 11:05:38 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Even in contemporary society, it is possible to be free from inner turmoil. Society only makes more obvious the dissonances that have always been there... This makes it all the more important to resolve these dissonances.

See the beauty in ugly.. See the ugly in beauty.. Realize how strange it is to be alive, and how absurd everything is. Stop giving so much of a fvck. Humor is essential to keeping your sanity, especially in todays world.. Where ignorance and stupidity are the reigning virtues.

Has it occurred to you that the reason society seems absurd is that it is a psychologically unhealthy environment?

Or can you not cope with the idea that you're actually not as weird as you like to think you are? :)
innomen
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2/15/2011 9:04:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/14/2011 9:47:30 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/14/2011 7:21:17 AM, innomen wrote:
I don't mean the obvious cases of schizophrenia and such, but those who are just way off the norm in behavior. HOw much of what we consider sane behavior, really just social conformity?:

Reminds me of a 12 Monkeys scene. (Embedding is not allowed for this video, so double-click on it to watch it on YouTube).



Some behavioral "problems" may well have been learned, like obsessive compulsive disorders, dunno, i'm not a psychiatrist. If someone has a maladapted behavioral "problem" is it really a subjective judgment?:

You bring up a very interesting concept, and one that I myself have contemplated. Unfortunately there's no real way to confirm it absolutely in either direction. But we have seen over the years groups like the APA inventing maladies and then completely changing their opinion. Take for instance your [condition], homosexuality. Homosexuality was a degenerative sexual disorder for years and years, and people who "suffered" from it were ill and in need of treatment.

Well, along come the P.C. police, it gains more and more acceptance in the mainstream, and lo' and behold, the tables have turned. Now only crazy people hate homosexuality.

And we see this construct that is created by doctors and psychiatrists. Ever read Freud or Kinsey? Their efforts in the field of psychology more than likely have a lot of merit, but in my opinion, a lot of it was deranged. Kinsey and Freud, as best I can tell, were sexual sadists and masochists. Kinsey, for instance, conducted some very macabre "tests" on adolescents that any one in today's zeitgeist would call pedophilia.

So, like Brad Pitt's character in 12 Monkey's, he makes a good point. It often boils down to popular opinion -- consensus.

Then also perhaps we consider the converse to be true as well? If you are able to conform to social norms, no matter how batty you are in the head, you are "normal". Since homosexuality now exists within the parameters of social norms, it is now deemed "normal". This then is incredibly subjective, and far from scientific. It would seem that psychiatry is in large part dependent on sociology as much as medicine.
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/15/2011 9:56:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 12:29:43 AM, tigg13 wrote:
At 2/14/2011 11:05:38 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Even in contemporary society, it is possible to be free from inner turmoil. Society only makes more obvious the dissonances that have always been there... This makes it all the more important to resolve these dissonances.

See the beauty in ugly.. See the ugly in beauty.. Realize how strange it is to be alive, and how absurd everything is. Stop giving so much of a fvck. Humor is essential to keeping your sanity, especially in todays world.. Where ignorance and stupidity are the reigning virtues.

Has it occurred to you that the reason society seems absurd is that it is a psychologically unhealthy environment?

Or can you not cope with the idea that you're actually not as weird as you like to think you are? :)

I don't think I am weird at all, other people think that I am weird. I never set out to be weird or different or anything. Honestly, I don't think about it much, because I don't care. Usually the people who think I am weird are a bunch of wankers anyway.

Any environment that we live in can be a psychologically unhealthy environment, and no matter what environment you live in, it doesn't take away the absurdity. The fact that we are here at all in this strange world beyond our control creates absurdity..

It is the human condition to lack contentment, and with a lack of contentment comes mental illness.

Realizing the absurdity of your environment is part of curing your mental illness... It is hard to think of an environment humans could live through free of mental illness.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
innomen
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2/15/2011 11:07:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 9:56:19 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 2/15/2011 12:29:43 AM, tigg13 wrote:
At 2/14/2011 11:05:38 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Even in contemporary society, it is possible to be free from inner turmoil. Society only makes more obvious the dissonances that have always been there... This makes it all the more important to resolve these dissonances.

See the beauty in ugly.. See the ugly in beauty.. Realize how strange it is to be alive, and how absurd everything is. Stop giving so much of a fvck. Humor is essential to keeping your sanity, especially in todays world.. Where ignorance and stupidity are the reigning virtues.

Has it occurred to you that the reason society seems absurd is that it is a psychologically unhealthy environment?

Or can you not cope with the idea that you're actually not as weird as you like to think you are? :)

I don't think I am weird at all, other people think that I am weird. I never set out to be weird or different or anything. Honestly, I don't think about it much, because I don't care. Usually the people who think I am weird are a bunch of wankers anyway.

Any environment that we live in can be a psychologically unhealthy environment, and no matter what environment you live in, it doesn't take away the absurdity. The fact that we are here at all in this strange world beyond our control creates absurdity..

It is the human condition to lack contentment, and with a lack of contentment comes mental illness.

Realizing the absurdity of your environment is part of curing your mental illness... It is hard to think of an environment humans could live through free of mental illness.

I think you confuse unhappiness with mental illness. I really don't think that lack of contentment brings mental illness, but perhaps the other way around may be true.
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/15/2011 12:45:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are certain mental illnesses I can't be too certain about.. but from personal experience, I'd say my assessment is for the most part accurate.

Your own personal happiness makes for a good gauge of how mentally healthy you are. The key is you have to be completely honest with yourself, otherwise, it doesn't make for a good measuring stick.

Lack of contentedness does cause mental illness, but mental illness causes more mental illness.. and more incontentedness. It's a viscious cycle.

I'll give an example here, one that I'm sure many people, including myself are familiar with.

A very common form of mental illness in todays society is chronic depression. Bi-polar disorder is also very common.

Depression stems from a desire to have something that you can not have, and this desire is effecting your mood. This something can be anything, it could be material, it could be knowledge, it can really be anything. It could even be the desire to not be depressed. The thing is, simply desiring to be not depressed will put you into a deeper depression. Depression is a very hard mindset to get out of, as it is self defeating.

I'm not talking about sadness, I'm talking specifically about a sadness and misery that doesn't go away.. One that eats at your insides and makes you contemplate suicide. This is a condition that can last for years.

Anyway, if you are depressed, and you are sick of being depressed, you've probably thought about ways to end your depression. The thing is, most of the advice you hear on how to end your misery is BAD advice. Most of the advice you hear has more to do with deluding yourself than anything.

Now, this is what causes Bi-polar disorder.. A person who is bi-polar is actually someone who is depressed.. They try a method to kill their depression, and it seems to work for a little while.. When it proves to be impractical in use, they slump back into a depressive state.

So now you have a mental illness that just created another mental illness.

Now how do you rid yourself of all this mental illness? You just have to keep trying new things until the truth that I'm saying becomes obvious.

When you truly realize that the reason you are miserable is because you are letting your desires control your mood.. You can spend more of your thoughts at finding the solution to this.

The key is not to delude yourself, but to actually find a solution that is true and real. Learn more, and be honest.. Everything will just fall in line. It requires some mental effort, most of which is simply awareness, the rest is an honest search for truth.

Just keep breaking down your mental processes, and live life. The more you experience reality, the easier it is for your mind to work. The variable unaccounted for effects you most when you are in motion.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
innomen
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2/15/2011 3:24:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 12:45:39 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
There are certain mental illnesses I can't be too certain about.. but from personal experience, I'd say my assessment is for the most part accurate.


Your own personal happiness makes for a good gauge of how mentally healthy you are. The key is you have to be completely honest with yourself, otherwise, it doesn't make for a good measuring stick.

Lack of contentedness does cause mental illness, but mental illness causes more mental illness.. and more incontentedness. It's a viscious cycle.

I'll give an example here, one that I'm sure many people, including myself are familiar with.

A very common form of mental illness in todays society is chronic depression. Bi-polar disorder is also very common.

Depression stems from a desire to have something that you can not have, and this desire is effecting your mood. This something can be anything, it could be material, it could be knowledge, it can really be anything. It could even be the desire to not be depressed. The thing is, simply desiring to be not depressed will put you into a deeper depression. Depression is a very hard mindset to get out of, as it is self defeating.

I'm not talking about sadness, I'm talking specifically about a sadness and misery that doesn't go away.. One that eats at your insides and makes you contemplate suicide. This is a condition that can last for years.


Anyway, if you are depressed, and you are sick of being depressed, you've probably thought about ways to end your depression. The thing is, most of the advice you hear on how to end your misery is BAD advice. Most of the advice you hear has more to do with deluding yourself than anything.

Now, this is what causes Bi-polar disorder.. A person who is bi-polar is actually someone who is depressed.. They try a method to kill their depression, and it seems to work for a little while.. When it proves to be impractical in use, they slump back into a depressive state.

So now you have a mental illness that just created another mental illness.

Now how do you rid yourself of all this mental illness? You just have to keep trying new things until the truth that I'm saying becomes obvious.

When you truly realize that the reason you are miserable is because you are letting your desires control your mood.. You can spend more of your thoughts at finding the solution to this.

The key is not to delude yourself, but to actually find a solution that is true and real. Learn more, and be honest.. Everything will just fall in line. It requires some mental effort, most of which is simply awareness, the rest is an honest search for truth.

Just keep breaking down your mental processes, and live life. The more you experience reality, the easier it is for your mind to work. The variable unaccounted for effects you most when you are in motion.

This is just wrong at a bunch of levels.
": Depression stems from a desire to have something that you can not have, and this desire is effecting your mood. This something can be anything, it could be material, it could be knowledge, it can really be anything. It could even be the desire to not be depressed. The thing is, simply desiring to be not depressed will put you into a deeper depression. Depression is a very hard mindset to get out of, as it is self defeating."
Okay, so first situational depression comes from those who cannot cope with a situation. Not to be confused with those who suffer from a chemical imbalance and hit depressions chronically without reason. Those who cannot cope with situations repeatedly have different solutions than those who are otherwise diagnosed with the imbalance. I understand the level of misery that can result from the inability to cope, and i do not dismiss it, but i am hard pressed to call it more than what it is. Yes, indeed it can result in suicidal thoughts, especially when all hope is deemed impossible.

"Now, this is what causes Bi-polar disorder.. A person who is bi-polar is actually someone who is depressed.. They try a method to kill their depression, and it seems to work for a little while.. When it proves to be impractical in use, they slump back into a depressive state."
This is also inaccurate. Bipolar, real bipolar disorder is indeed a medical situation, where there is serious imbalance in the brain. Lithium is a nasty medication, but it is effective. You certainly wouldn't use lithium on the person you described. Now people are being described or diagnosed as bipolar when in fact they truly are not. Most alcoholics are diagnosed as bipolar until they sober up.

I do agree with your points on being honest with yourself in finding balance though. A few other points too that you sort of glossed over quickly.
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/15/2011 3:30:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You don't think the chemical reactions in our brain are effected by the way we think, and visa versa?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
annhasle
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2/15/2011 3:32:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 3:30:22 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You don't think the chemical reactions in our brain are effected by the way we think, and visa versa?

The way we think can stem from chemical imbalances (i.e. suicidal idealizations) but chemical imbalances will not result from the way we think.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/15/2011 3:40:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would agree with this -- to an extent. It really depends on the mental illness. I would say that if the mental disorder impairs quality of daily life by causing negative habits and/or distress to the individual, then it should be analyzed and resolved through therapeutic and/or medical practices -- and to do so, objective/standard guideline criteria is needed.:

Agreed, I'm just acknowledging the fact that the lines are often blurred. Salvidor Dali certainly appeared mentally deranged to me, and maybe he was, but there is the possibility that he was simply a genius and we weren't on his level. Who knows?

The short answer to innomen is that I don't know how to make the situation better but I am acknowledging that he makes valid points. But of course, as you stated, mental illness does exist and it is a problem. Mental illness is very prevalent, and it's something that needs to be addressed.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/15/2011 3:46:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I disagree completely. They all have an effect on each other.

Blaming it all on chemical reactions that thoughts have no part of is in itself a self defeating delusion.

I was chronically depressed from the time I was in 1st grade, up until a couple of years ago. I am fairly certain that the way we think effects the chemistry in our brain...

However, it requires some genuine effort.. No one can tell you how to do it, you just have to figure it out on your own.

I know all this from personal experience, and I am no longer depressed. Not only am I content, but I am happy most of the time, and my happiness only seems to grow.

I'm not going to be able to link to any scientific study, or anything like that, but consider my opinion on the matter a result of my own personal experimentation.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/15/2011 3:52:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 3:46:13 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I disagree completely. They all have an effect on each other.

Sure, your thoughts may worsen your mood but I'm thinking of a prolonged chemical imbalance and not the normal fluctuating of moods.

Blaming it all on chemical reactions that thoughts have no part of is in itself a self defeating delusion.

It all depends on context.

I was chronically depressed from the time I was in 1st grade, up until a couple of years ago. I am fairly certain that the way we think effects the chemistry in our brain...

Usually the way we think is the result of our brain chemistry but, like I already said, I'm thinking of a prolonged chemical imbalance. When someone uses the term "chemical imbalance" this gives the impression that the "usual" (or the level that it is at the most) chemical level of the person's brain is imbalanced -- which will cause mental deficiency or disorders. But if you were to say "Can our thoughts affect our mood", then I would have agreed with you right away. But that is different.

However, it requires some genuine effort.. No one can tell you how to do it, you just have to figure it out on your own.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but okay.

I know all this from personal experience, and I am no longer depressed. Not only am I content, but I am happy most of the time, and my happiness only seems to grow.

I'm happy that you were able to overcome your depression.

I'm not going to be able to link to any scientific study, or anything like that, but consider my opinion on the matter a result of my own personal experimentation.

Understood.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/15/2011 3:58:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Then also perhaps we consider the converse to be true as well? If you are able to conform to social norms, no matter how batty you are in the head, you are "normal". Since homosexuality now exists within the parameters of social norms, it is now deemed "normal". This then is incredibly subjective, and far from scientific. It would seem that psychiatry is in large part dependent on sociology as much as medicine.:

Yes, and so much of it is. And it doesn't begin or end with psychiatry either. Take for example the evolution of Vitamin C. First Vitamin C was said to boost your immune system. Then they said Vitamin C was completely benign. Now they say Vitamin C gives you cancer! In 10 years it'll probably be a cure-all.

I have so little faith in medicine in general, and the pharmaceuticals even less. It's like rolling the dice.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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2/15/2011 3:59:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 3:30:22 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You don't think the chemical reactions in our brain are effected by the way we think, and visa versa?

No, i don't think that inherent chemical imbalances can be the result of "the way we think", but rather the other way around.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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2/15/2011 4:04:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 3:46:13 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I disagree completely. They all have an effect on each other.

Blaming it all on chemical reactions that thoughts have no part of is in itself a self defeating delusion.

I was chronically depressed from the time I was in 1st grade, up until a couple of years ago. I am fairly certain that the way we think effects the chemistry in our brain...

However, it requires some genuine effort.. No one can tell you how to do it, you just have to figure it out on your own.

I know all this from personal experience, and I am no longer depressed. Not only am I content, but I am happy most of the time, and my happiness only seems to grow.

I'm not going to be able to link to any scientific study, or anything like that, but consider my opinion on the matter a result of my own personal experimentation.

Well, i shouldn't judge, but you have said something in other posts that makes me question the veracity of your statements, and i can say that from my own personal experience.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/15/2011 4:09:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 3:24:27 PM, innomen wrote:
At 2/15/2011 12:45:39 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
"Now, this is what causes Bi-polar disorder.. A person who is bi-polar is actually someone who is depressed.. They try a method to kill their depression, and it seems to work for a little while.. When it proves to be impractical in use, they slump back into a depressive state."
This is also inaccurate. Bipolar, real bipolar disorder is indeed a medical situation, where there is serious imbalance in the brain. Lithium is a nasty medication, but it is effective. You certainly wouldn't use lithium on the person you described. Now people are being described or diagnosed as bipolar when in fact they truly are not. Most alcoholics are diagnosed as bipolar until they sober up.

I agree with this ^^.

Also, if you were to prescribe medication to someone with Manic Depression (which is Bi-Polar Depression), than you would in fact prescribe them Lithium BUT you would attempt to mellow that out with Welbutron or Seroquel, which both focus on the Bi-Polar as well but without the nasty side effects. I know this since I'm Manic. :)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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2/15/2011 4:38:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 3:59:57 PM, innomen wrote:
At 2/15/2011 3:30:22 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
You don't think the chemical reactions in our brain are effected by the way we think, and visa versa?

No, i don't think that inherent chemical imbalances can be the result of "the way we think", but rather the other way around.

Well yes and no. You can't create unnatural chemical imbalances just by thinking , but you can cause things like increased adrenalin or serotonin levels just by focusing on certain memories and emotions (actors do it all the time).
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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2/15/2011 4:43:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 4:09:03 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/15/2011 3:24:27 PM, innomen wrote:
At 2/15/2011 12:45:39 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
"Now, this is what causes Bi-polar disorder.. A person who is bi-polar is actually someone who is depressed.. They try a method to kill their depression, and it seems to work for a little while.. When it proves to be impractical in use, they slump back into a depressive state."
This is also inaccurate. Bipolar, real bipolar disorder is indeed a medical situation, where there is serious imbalance in the brain. Lithium is a nasty medication, but it is effective. You certainly wouldn't use lithium on the person you described. Now people are being described or diagnosed as bipolar when in fact they truly are not. Most alcoholics are diagnosed as bipolar until they sober up.

I agree with this ^^.

Also, if you were to prescribe medication to someone with Manic Depression (which is Bi-Polar Depression), than you would in fact prescribe them Lithium BUT you would attempt to mellow that out with Welbutron or Seroquel, which both focus on the Bi-Polar as well but without the nasty side effects. I know this since I'm Manic. :)

Lithium is serious shi+. My brother in law has to take it, he's bipolar and it's been passed on from male to male in his family. It will undoubtedly shorten his life, but he is really a mess without it. My sister says he's like a different person altogether. Lots of other anti-depressants don't work the same way on body chemistry as lithium does, and many anti depressants have questionable results. However, lithium is specifically for the imbalance in certain individuals.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/15/2011 4:57:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 4:43:39 PM, innomen wrote:
At 2/15/2011 4:09:03 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/15/2011 3:24:27 PM, innomen wrote:
At 2/15/2011 12:45:39 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Also, if you were to prescribe medication to someone with Manic Depression (which is Bi-Polar Depression), than you would in fact prescribe them Lithium BUT you would attempt to mellow that out with Welbutron or Seroquel, which both focus on the Bi-Polar as well but without the nasty side effects. I know this since I'm Manic. :)

Lithium is serious shi+. My brother in law has to take it, he's bipolar and it's been passed on from male to male in his family. It will undoubtedly shorten his life, but he is really a mess without it. My sister says he's like a different person altogether. Lots of other anti-depressants don't work the same way on body chemistry as lithium does, and many anti depressants have questionable results. However, lithium is specifically for the imbalance in certain individuals.

I've been on Lithium for three years now -- it's brutal. The first year was by far the hardest. Then they doped me up on other drugs to counteract the bad. Lol. Anyways, Lithium is one of the few drugs that psychiatrists try to avoid prescribing so when they actually do -- it's quite telling of the mental condition of the patient. I hope that your brother in law stays strong and is able to work through his issues on the medication. It takes awhile to get used to it. :)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.