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Are People Born Good?

CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/15/2011 8:31:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Have you ever had kids?

That would answer your question.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
brittcb4
Posts: 14
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2/15/2011 9:17:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe that people are born good and as they grow older they can remain good or become bad, evil etc.

Does any one have proof that we are born inherently good? How do you define good?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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2/15/2011 9:19:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 9:17:03 PM, brittcb4 wrote:
I believe that people are born good and as they grow older they can remain good or become bad, evil etc.

Does any one have proof that we are born inherently good? How do you define good?

Well there's your problem there. How can you know if a person is part of a category if you do not have a definition of that category.
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/15/2011 9:39:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Babies are hedonistic, shapeless bags of fat. All they do is whine, complain, and sh!t themselves. Occasionally, they smile and make stupid noises. If you are lucky, they fall asleep.

If we are talking about morality, I think it's pretty obvious that babies are little amoral bags of sin.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/15/2011 9:47:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
People are indeed born good in the sense that when people are born they make up what "good" means.
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jharry
Posts: 4,984
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2/15/2011 9:56:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 8:28:57 PM, brittcb4 wrote:
This question has been debated for centuries..what do you believe?

No. Some better then others but in the end, no.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
brittcb4
Posts: 14
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2/15/2011 9:57:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The definition of good is the most general term of approval, both moral and non-moral, whether intrinsic or extrinsic. i would like to point out that it is human nature to be born good as it is inherited. People are born with a natural instinct to care for others, we need love and affection. I specifically want to point out that my definition includespeople who help each other and cooperate. This is why we have evolved, we are not extinct. This is because we were born with the nature to help others. We are still functioning as a society, we have not crumbled yet. After we are born, our environment and surroundings shape our behaviors. As a result, there is good, bad, and evil in the world.

John Locke was a famous English Philosopher. He was one of the most influential philosophers who emphasized on enlightenment and liberation. Locke believed that people were born without any innate ideas and were good by birth.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau is another famous philosopher who believed that man was born innately good but that it was society that corrupted man. He argued that man was made unhappy by experiences that he had in society because society was distorted, corrupt, and false. In Rousseau's The Social Contract, which he wrote in 1762, Rousseau explains this concept of man being naturally good but corrupted by society.

Mencius was a Chinese Philosopher, and he believed in Confucius's (social philosopher's) theory. Confucius believed that people are inherently good natured and should work towards the greater benefit of society. Confucius held the traditional view that all men are born good. Of anything like original sin there is not a trace in his teaching. He seems to have failed to recognize even the existence of vicious hereditary tendencies. In his view, what spoiled men was bad environment, evil example, an inexcusable yielding to evil appetites that everyone by right use of his natural powers could and ought to control.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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2/15/2011 10:00:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 9:57:02 PM, brittcb4 wrote:
John Locke was a famous English Philosopher. He was one of the most influential philosophers who emphasized on enlightenment and liberation.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau is another famous philosopher

Mencius was a Chinese Philosopher

Oh, thank goodness. Without your exposition, I would never have known who these guys were.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/15/2011 10:00:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 9:55:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
People are born tabula rasa.

Lol, I was going to write "When we're born, we are blank slates" but of course -- you had to go all Latin on us and beat me to it. D:
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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2/15/2011 10:02:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 9:57:02 PM, brittcb4 wrote:
The definition of good is the most general term of approval, both moral and non-moral, whether intrinsic or extrinsic. i would like to point out that it is human nature to be born good as it is inherited. People are born with a natural instinct to care for others, we need love and affection. I specifically want to point out that my definition includespeople who help each other and cooperate. This is why we have evolved, we are not extinct. This is because we were born with the nature to help others. We are still functioning as a society, we have not crumbled yet. After we are born, our environment and surroundings shape our behaviors. As a result, there is good, bad, and evil in the world.

John Locke was a famous English Philosopher. He was one of the most influential philosophers who emphasized on enlightenment and liberation. Locke believed that people were born without any innate ideas and were good by birth.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau is another famous philosopher who believed that man was born innately good but that it was society that corrupted man. He argued that man was made unhappy by experiences that he had in society because society was distorted, corrupt, and false. In Rousseau's The Social Contract, which he wrote in 1762, Rousseau explains this concept of man being naturally good but corrupted by society.

Mencius was a Chinese Philosopher, and he believed in Confucius's (social philosopher's) theory. Confucius believed that people are inherently good natured and should work towards the greater benefit of society. Confucius held the traditional view that all men are born good. Of anything like original sin there is not a trace in his teaching. He seems to have failed to recognize even the existence of vicious hereditary tendencies. In his view, what spoiled men was bad environment, evil example, an inexcusable yielding to evil appetites that everyone by right use of his natural powers could and ought to control.

good copy and paste job
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/15/2011 10:11:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 8:28:57 PM, brittcb4 wrote:
This question has been debated for centuries..what do you believe?:

"Good" is a subjective term, so....
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/15/2011 10:12:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
babies are little amoral bags of sin.:

Oxymoron.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/15/2011 10:22:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 10:19:17 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/15/2011 9:55:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
People are born tabula rasa.

Are we really?

Yes.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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2/15/2011 10:26:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 10:22:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:19:17 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/15/2011 9:55:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
People are born tabula rasa.

Are we really?

Yes.

lol I guess I set myself up for that :p

The thing is, if personality is a heritable trait then we can't be blank slates...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/15/2011 10:27:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 10:26:05 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:22:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:19:17 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/15/2011 9:55:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
People are born tabula rasa.

Are we really?

Yes.

lol I guess I set myself up for that :p

The thing is, if personality is a heritable trait then we can't be blank slates...

That depends whether personality is writing on the slate, or it's more like the shape and chemical composition of the slate.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/15/2011 10:28:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
in any case, "Born good" is a contradiction.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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2/15/2011 10:37:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 10:27:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:26:05 PM, nonentity wrote:

The thing is, if personality is a heritable trait then we can't be blank slates...

That depends whether personality is writing on the slate, or it's more like the shape and chemical composition of the slate.

I'm tempted to say the latter, but I'll be honest---I'm not really sure what you mean.

If you mean what I think you mean, then personality would be like being born with [insertcolourhere]-coloured glasses. You're born with the capacity of either good or evil within the context of your personality.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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2/16/2011 3:14:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/15/2011 10:22:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:19:17 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/15/2011 9:55:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
People are born tabula rasa.

Are we really?

Yes.

No.

If we're going along with the standard definition of tabula rasa (that most if not all our behavioral traits are learned), then it should be common scientific knowledge that both nature and nurture play a role in human personalities.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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2/16/2011 3:21:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/16/2011 3:14:05 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:22:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:19:17 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/15/2011 9:55:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
People are born tabula rasa.

Are we really?

Yes.

No.

If we're going along with the standard definition of tabula rasa (that most if not all our behavioral traits are learned), then it should be common scientific knowledge that both nature and nurture play a role in human personalities.

This.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/16/2011 3:24:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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2/16/2011 4:16:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/16/2011 3:14:05 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:22:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/15/2011 10:19:17 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/15/2011 9:55:08 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
People are born tabula rasa.

Are we really?

Yes.

No.

If we're going along with the standard definition of tabula rasa (that most if not all our behavioral traits are learned), then it should be common scientific knowledge that both nature and nurture play a role in human personalities.

We were having a moral discussion. Context here modifies the classic meaning of the phrase to something more like "no inherent predisposition toward good or evil". In other words, we don't have a tendency toward "good" or "evil" from birth. Granted, I'm an amoralist, but if we're talking of morality, we can properly say that morality is a social construct, and, though children might conform to one paradigm or another, it's not indicative of a predisposition.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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2/16/2011 4:44:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
No.

If we're going along with the standard definition of tabula rasa (that most if not all our behavioral traits are learned), then it should be common scientific knowledge that both nature and nurture play a role in human personalities.

We were having a moral discussion. Context here modifies the classic meaning of the phrase to something more like "no inherent predisposition toward good or evil". In other words, we don't have a tendency toward "good" or "evil" from birth. Granted, I'm an amoralist, but if we're talking of morality, we can properly say that morality is a social construct, and, though children might conform to one paradigm or another, it's not indicative of a predisposition.

It gets complex. In some sense, it would be silly for one to say that we are born with tendency to act towards good or evil behavior while being cognitive of the behavior as good or bad; such would be necessary for someone to be morally virtuous they have to intend the moral acts they are doing - it can't simply be a reflex of sorts.

But maybe all that is meant is that people are predisposed to behavior we would classify as 'good' whether or not the actor intends to do so. This is coherent I suppose, but needs some clarifications. Especially since if this latter definition is to be taken, then it seems hard to avoid the tabula rasa clause on the basis that a.) a full tabula rasa account of general human personality is false, and b.) the relevant behavioral predispositions may cross paths with behaviors that can be labelled morally relevant.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/16/2011 4:48:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't really think we're born good or bad. We tend to pick up certain characteristics based on the environment that we're brought up in.
juvanya
Posts: 613
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2/16/2011 6:15:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/16/2011 4:48:52 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't really think we're born good or bad. We tend to pick up certain characteristics based on the environment that we're brought up in.

Correct.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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2/16/2011 1:12:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I always use the example of Harry Potter and Voldemort. Similar in that they are both half-bloods, both speak Parseltongue, neither knew he was a wizard until age 11, both orphans, both had difficult childhoods, both exceptionally bright, etc. Different in terms of personalities and it is their personalities that predisposed them to actions of either good or evil.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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2/16/2011 1:23:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/16/2011 1:12:55 PM, nonentity wrote:
I always use the example of Harry Potter and Voldemort. Similar in that they are both half-bloods, both speak Parseltongue, neither knew he was a wizard until age 11, both orphans, both had difficult childhoods, both exceptionally bright, etc. Different in terms of personalities and it is their personalities that predisposed them to actions of either good or evil.

nah :) their circumstances weren't all that similar.. at least not similar enough to use them as an example here.. also, they're fictional characters :P
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