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Idealism vs. Materialism

eball45
Posts: 125
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3/15/2011 1:58:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What side of the fence are you on? I'm curious to see what metaphysical stances individuals take who agree with either of the respective philosophies.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/15/2011 2:08:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Neither.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
eball45
Posts: 125
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3/15/2011 2:17:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Right, I suppose those arent the only two schools of knowledge. I guess I should specify more clearly.
Do you believe in an external world? Or, is all matter an illusion?
Being Buddhist, who I believe to be non-dualistic, i'd assume they would be idealists; they would say we aren't seperate from the external world.
Perhaps they'd say "I am that tree." Or, "The tree and I are one."
This is just my inference. I apologize if I'm way off base.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/15/2011 2:38:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Materialism
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
eball45
Posts: 125
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3/15/2011 2:49:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 2:38:25 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Materialism
I need to get a debate under my belt so I can vote.
Are you interested in defending materialism?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/15/2011 7:52:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 7:40:38 PM, eball45 wrote:
You have to be one or the other. Either you believe in matter or matter is all in your head; like a dream.

False dichotomy . What about philosophies that deny the existence of the self AND the material world?

There's also the notion of Panpsychism which holds that everything that looks material is actually made of mind-substance. Not from YOUR mind, but existence itself is made of mind, not material.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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3/15/2011 8:14:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 1:58:58 PM, eball45 wrote:
What side of the fence are you on? I'm curious to see what metaphysical stances individuals take who agree with either of the respective philosophies.

Materialism
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/15/2011 8:24:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 1:58:58 PM, eball45 wrote:
What side of the fence are you on? I'm curious to see what metaphysical stances individuals take who agree with either of the respective philosophies.

mattrodstrom said:
materialism

I don't like taking metaphysical stances...

I like eating metaphysical stances... Nom.. Nom.. Nom..
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/15/2011 8:27:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 2:49:42 PM, eball45 wrote:
At 3/15/2011 2:38:25 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Materialism
I need to get a debate under my belt so I can vote.
Are you interested in defending materialism?

I suppose... though I'm not good with commitments.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
eball45
Posts: 125
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3/18/2011 10:13:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 7:52:52 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/15/2011 7:40:38 PM, eball45 wrote:
You have to be one or the other. Either you believe in matter or matter is all in your head; like a dream.

False dichotomy . What about philosophies that deny the existence of the self AND the material world?

There's also the notion of Panpsychism which holds that everything that looks material is actually made of mind-substance. Not from YOUR mind, but existence itself is made of mind, not material.

Ok, so would that mean you don't think you exist? If so, i'd like to hear more.
eball45
Posts: 125
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3/18/2011 11:33:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sorry, I don't think you were speaking personally? Either way, I'd like to hear more about this philosophy. I've never heard of the mind not existing or the physical world. If neither exists, where does the sense of "I" come from?
eball45
Posts: 125
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3/19/2011 12:09:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 8:24:39 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/15/2011 1:58:58 PM, eball45 wrote:
What side of the fence are you on? I'm curious to see what metaphysical stances individuals take who agree with either of the respective philosophies.

mattrodstrom said:
materialism

I don't like taking metaphysical stances...

I like eating metaphysical stances... Nom.. Nom.. Nom..

Ya, I hear that.
This falls more into the theory of knowledge category; epistemology. Most fall into the indirect realist category, where theres a physical object. However, the physical object doesn't give us our picture of the object (indirect). Instead, there is a medium where by we take signals from the object to create a picture (perception).
For a Direct-realist, perception wouldn't be in the middle of our mental picture of the object; the object it's self would be all that was needed.
Direct-idealist holds that nothing exists outside of our mind. We create our reality(literally). Some interpretations of quantum physics are always used by this type of thinker.
Finally, I think geo may fall into the indirect-idealist category. This holds we are a piece of consciousness or mind that is just a part of a larger all encompassing consciousness(mind) and everything exists within this consciousness(mind).