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Is stealing wrong?

socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/21/2011 5:05:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Read the OP.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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: I disagree.
socialpinko
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5/21/2011 5:08:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:07:25 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
No, it isn't.

inb4 "inb4 moral nihilism"

I was going to ask that this thread not be spoiled by those nanny nihilists.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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5/21/2011 5:10:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:08:19 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 5/21/2011 5:07:25 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
No, it isn't.

inb4 "inb4 moral nihilism"

I was going to ask that this thread not be spoiled by those nanny nihilists.

That's sort of an illegitimate request if you're looking for the truth of things, though. By excluding nihilism from your considerations, you're basically assuming that the correct answer is a morality-affirming one.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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5/21/2011 5:19:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are too many variables to answer that with a yes or no. It all depends on the context of the theft.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/21/2011 5:41:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Pay close attention. This is why my philosophy is so often misunderstood. My answer is like an onion.

First layer: Yes.

Second layer: What is stealing? I would not consider taking just any property to be stealing. To take someone's possession, something which someone has for personal use, is stealing.

Third layer: No. There is nothing inherently wrong with anything. My morality is a choice.

Fourth layer: I don't actually know. Making sense of things is just as illusionary as my supposed sense tells me that morality is.

Fifth layer: [password required]
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fnord
Cody_Franklin
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5/21/2011 5:51:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:41:28 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Pay close attention. This is why my philosophy is so often misunderstood. My answer is like an onion.

First layer: Yes.

Second layer: What is stealing? I would not consider taking just any property to be stealing. To take someone's possession, something which someone has for personal use, is stealing.

Third layer: No. There is nothing inherently wrong with anything. My morality is a choice.

Fourth layer: I don't actually know. Making sense of things is just as illusionary as my supposed sense tells me that morality is.

Fifth layer: [password required]

It's not like an onion so much as an infinite series of doors. You open one, expecting to finally get to the next room, only to realize there's another door to open. This goes on forever. You eventually acknowledge that there's probably no room on the other side.

Your philosophy simply suggests that, no matter how much we try to organize, make sense of, and know the world around us, our attempts at epistemic stability are ultimately futile, and that, depending on our initial frame of reference, i.e. the theory we use to organize otherwise meaningless data, our answers to a given question will differ massivel. :P
FREEDO
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5/21/2011 5:57:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:51:41 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/21/2011 5:41:28 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Pay close attention. This is why my philosophy is so often misunderstood. My answer is like an onion.

First layer: Yes.

Second layer: What is stealing? I would not consider taking just any property to be stealing. To take someone's possession, something which someone has for personal use, is stealing.

Third layer: No. There is nothing inherently wrong with anything. My morality is a choice.

Fourth layer: I don't actually know. Making sense of things is just as illusionary as my supposed sense tells me that morality is.

Fifth layer: [password required]

It's not like an onion so much as an infinite series of doors. You open one, expecting to finally get to the next room, only to realize there's another door to open. This goes on forever. You eventually acknowledge that there's probably no room on the other side.

Your philosophy simply suggests that, no matter how much we try to organize, make sense of, and know the world around us, our attempts at epistemic stability are ultimately futile, and that, depending on our initial frame of reference, i.e. the theory we use to organize otherwise meaningless data, our answers to a given question will differ massivel. :P

Yeah, that's it said quite nicely, actually. That does, however, miss out on the much simpler part of it all, a part even more important to me. It's simply the romanticism. =)
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Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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5/21/2011 6:01:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:57:22 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/21/2011 5:51:41 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 5/21/2011 5:41:28 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Pay close attention. This is why my philosophy is so often misunderstood. My answer is like an onion.

First layer: Yes.

Second layer: What is stealing? I would not consider taking just any property to be stealing. To take someone's possession, something which someone has for personal use, is stealing.

Third layer: No. There is nothing inherently wrong with anything. My morality is a choice.

Fourth layer: I don't actually know. Making sense of things is just as illusionary as my supposed sense tells me that morality is.

Fifth layer: [password required]

It's not like an onion so much as an infinite series of doors. You open one, expecting to finally get to the next room, only to realize there's another door to open. This goes on forever. You eventually acknowledge that there's probably no room on the other side.

Your philosophy simply suggests that, no matter how much we try to organize, make sense of, and know the world around us, our attempts at epistemic stability are ultimately futile, and that, depending on our initial frame of reference, i.e. the theory we use to organize otherwise meaningless data, our answers to a given question will differ massivel. :P

Yeah, that's it said quite nicely, actually. That does, however, miss out on the much simpler part of it all, a part even more important to me. It's simply the romanticism. =)

What isn't romantic about an infinity of door-opening?
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/21/2011 9:45:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:05:50 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Read the OP.

Socialpinko, as a foundational question, why it is important to you to know if stealing is wrong. To be extremely specific, does it effect if you will steal or if you will take action against those that do steal?
PARADIGM_L0ST
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5/21/2011 10:35:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:05:50 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Read the OP.:

Objectively, is stealing wrong? There's no evidence to assume that there is some cosmic arbiter declaring it absolutely wrong. For all practical purposes, is stealing wrong? Yes, obviously.
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OMGJustinBieber
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5/21/2011 10:46:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Mostly, yes. Not always.

"Is the Sistine Chapel better art than a macaroni painting done by a first grader in special education?"

"...well, it's not objectively better."

I knew we would get this line of thinking.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/21/2011 12:16:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 10:35:49 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
For all practical purposes, is stealing wrong? Yes, obviously.

If you had food and I was hungry, it would be practical for me to steal your food :P
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wjmelements
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5/21/2011 12:20:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In order to fully answer the question, a moral system must be defined.

On the grounds of non-aggression, stealing is only wrong if the property being stolen rightly belongs to the stealer.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
neoanarchy
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5/21/2011 2:12:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In most cases, I would consider stealing the ultimate act of selfishness. Then again, humans are selfish my nature (some more then others).

We might as well just lock our doors and accept the fact that there will always be someone out there looking to nick our television.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/21/2011 2:21:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 12:16:18 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/21/2011 10:35:49 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
For all practical purposes, is stealing wrong? Yes, obviously.

If you had food and I was hungry, it would be practical for me to steal your food :P

That is like arguing if someone had sexual desire and you were there it would be practical for them to rape you.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/21/2011 2:28:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 9:44:38 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/21/2011 8:07:41 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Define 'wrong' without using any synonyms of wrong.

That which is not right.

fvck you. :P
Ragnar_Rahl
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5/21/2011 2:51:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 8:07:41 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Define 'wrong' without using any synonyms of wrong.

Not conducive to one's life as a rational animal, in the context of having chosen to live.
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Kinesis
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5/21/2011 2:59:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 2:51:46 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/21/2011 8:07:41 AM, Kinesis wrote:
Define 'wrong' without using any synonyms of wrong.

Not conducive to one's life as a rational animal, in the context of having chosen to live.

Ok, but I don't see how normative conclusions can be drawn out of that.
Justin_Chains
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5/21/2011 3:42:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is stealing wrong?

The answer to that question would depend on your personal beliefs and personal moral code.

If you feel it is your right to keep personal possessions, then it is wrong to steal.

The majority of people agree with this mentality, so it is enforced on a large scale.
GodSands
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5/21/2011 4:29:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:05:50 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Read the OP.

On the most part, absolutely yes. But if, I believe, given that Jesus came to fulfill the law with love, that if you must steal in order to prevent a greater sin, then one might say stealing in that particular context was right. But since it was still stealing, you must return to the person you stole from and explain what you did and to explain why stealing at that point in time was totally necessary and unavoidable. You must owe yourself to that person for stealing from him.
CosmicAlfonzo
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5/21/2011 4:44:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wrong for what?
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innomen
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5/21/2011 4:52:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I really wish i had the exact study, but i remember this a couple years ago where 200 college kids were asked if it is worse to litter than to steal from a large company, and 97% found littering to be worse.

If that was asked 60 years ago, I'm fairly confident the numbers would be pretty much backwards to that.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/21/2011 5:07:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 2:12:42 PM, neoanarchy wrote:
In most cases, I would consider stealing the ultimate act of selfishness. Then again, humans are selfish my nature (some more then others).

http://plato.stanford.edu...

Is selfishness bad?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
OMGJustinBieber
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5/21/2011 5:24:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 3:42:43 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Is stealing wrong?

The answer to that question would depend on your personal beliefs and personal moral code.

If you feel it is your right to keep personal possessions, then it is wrong to steal.

The majority of people agree with this mentality, so it is enforced on a large scale.

If I feel that stealing is ok wouldn't it become an objective truth just as valid as your personal truth that your possessions belong to you?
Justin_Chains
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5/21/2011 7:02:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 5:24:22 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 5/21/2011 3:42:43 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Is stealing wrong?

The answer to that question would depend on your personal beliefs and personal moral code.

If you feel it is your right to keep personal possessions, then it is wrong to steal.

The majority of people agree with this mentality, so it is enforced on a large scale.

If I feel that stealing is ok wouldn't it become an objective truth just as valid as your personal truth that your possessions belong to you?

Absolutely not. The fact that you are doing something based on how "you feel" never makes it an objective truth. The existence of stealing is an objective truth, your reasons for doing it are completely subjective.

And we could have completely different moral codes. You may feel that stealing is ok and I don't. We would then be in opposition. That is where defense and offense come into play, when opposition takes motion. Morality is different for every conscious being. Every person's morality is valid in their own personal reality.