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Who does a living creatures life belong to?

Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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7/11/2011 10:45:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Question: Who does a creatures life or body belong to if it does not belong to them self?

Assuming you have a right arm on "your" body,.... who (if not yourself) does it belong to?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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7/12/2011 7:29:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 1:41:33 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Ownership is an invention. Whoever the man with the gun says owns it.

I understand that concept.

However, objectively speaking and using only the ability to observe and report, can it not be observed that a creatures body "belongs" to itself? That its life (the life it is living) belongs to itself?

And no. It's not a trick question.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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7/12/2011 7:50:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Allah, the most wise, merciful, and sexy of course.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/12/2011 7:58:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/11/2011 10:45:11 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
Question: Who does a creatures life or body belong to if it does not belong to them self?

I'm with FREEDO when we define the ownership of creatures. Most creatures can't even comprehend the concept of ownership beyond the concept of winner-take-all. For most species, the strong can take of the weak whatever they wish. Humanity, however, through civilization, has moved past this barbarism.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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7/12/2011 12:27:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 7:58:29 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/11/2011 10:45:11 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
Question: Who does a creatures life or body belong to if it does not belong to them self?

I'm with FREEDO when we define the ownership of creatures. Most creatures can't even comprehend the concept of ownership beyond the concept of winner-take-all. For most species, the strong can take of the weak whatever they wish. Humanity, however, through civilization, has moved past this barbarism.

If I may,.... I have to wonder why someone or something has to be "aware" or able to comprehend "ownership" in order to own something or in order to have something that belongs to themself.

Where has it been established that a creature of any sort (man included) must be "self aware" or have the ability to understand the concept,.... in order to have something that belongs to themself.

Specifically, their body and their life.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Pozzo
Posts: 139
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7/12/2011 12:57:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 12:27:35 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
If I may,.... I have to wonder why someone or something has to be "aware" or able to comprehend "ownership" in order to own something or in order to have something that belongs to themself.

Where has it been established that a creature of any sort (man included) must be "self aware" or have the ability to understand the concept,.... in order to have something that belongs to themself.

Specifically, their body and their life.

Right, I think I might finally have a handle on your philosophy. Correct me if I'm wrong.
When you say belong, or talk about ownership, you mean to possess/have power over something and be able to effect a change regarding that which is "owned"? Eg, I own my legs because I can use them. I own my shoes because I wear them and use them. Somebody can stop me owning my shoes by taking them from me, thus ending my possession and ability to effect a change. That's somewhat more difficult with my legs but I assume they could amputate them and take them away home with them, thus "owning" them. Close-ish?
Chuz-Life
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7/12/2011 3:05:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 12:57:23 PM, Pozzo wrote:
Right, I think I might finally have a handle on your philosophy (Chuz). Correct me if I'm wrong.
When you say belong, or talk about ownership, you mean to possess/have power over something and be able to effect a change regarding that which is "owned"? Eg, I own my legs because I can use them. I own my shoes because I wear them and use them. Somebody can stop me owning my shoes by taking them from me, thus ending my possession and ability to effect a change. That's somewhat more difficult with my legs but I assume they could amputate them and take them away home with them, thus "owning" them. Close-ish?

I am multi taking now and am unable to respond as I would like to.

I'll try again soon!
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/12/2011 6:19:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Opinion: Your power to own anything physical (even physical life) corresponds directly with your power to physically defend what you claim ownership to.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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7/12/2011 9:55:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 12:57:23 PM, Pozzo wrote:
Right, I think I might finally have a handle on your philosophy (Chuz). Correct me if I'm wrong.

OK

When you say belong, or talk about ownership, you mean to possess/have power over something and be able to effect a change regarding that which is "owned"?

Mainly, I am talking about possession. For example, a person in a coma's arms and legs belong to themselves whether they can do anything with them or even are aware of them or not.

Eg, I own my legs because I can use them. I own my shoes because I wear them and use them.

Yeah,... that's not the point I've been trying to make. Sorry.

You are pretty much on target though with your comments about "possession."

Somebody can stop me owning my shoes by taking them from me, thus ending my possession and ability to effect a change.

True.

But does that mean that you never has a right to them or does that mean you have a right to them but that your right was violated and or you were deprived of your right to them?

That's somewhat more difficult with my legs but I assume they could amputate them and take them away home with them, thus "owning" them. Close-ish?

Somewhat close.

I am interested in your comments about what I said above.

Especially what your thoughts are on the fact that say an animal has a right to their body and their life,... and when another animal kills and eats them.... It's not an indication that they don't have rights,.... but that the rights they have can be deprived or violated.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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