Total Posts:15|Showing Posts:1-15
Jump to topic:

Does the Soul Exist If God Does Not?

Hambone
Posts: 18
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/13/2011 5:34:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So I definitely believe you can achieve morality without referencing a God. There can be Good and Evil without referencing whatever higher power to which you may subscribe. However, I have a hard time coming up with an answer for whether or not the soul exists if God does not. I guess it depends on one's definition of a soul. Mine is the driving force of the engine of your body, from which we get original inspiration and uniqueness and feelings and all that happy business. I could see there being a soul outside of a body, maybe after death. But can you imagine a soul without the existence of God? Is it merely a matter of linking the afterlife with God? Can you believe in Souls while not believing in God?

They seem too connected to me, and not necessarily to one God in particular.
Hot and Dangerous
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/13/2011 5:48:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What does God have to do with souls? Souls can exist regardless of God's existence.

In fact, one of the major religions of the world, Jainism, believes in souls but no God.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/13/2011 7:25:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You can always think of the soul as the software to the little organic computer we call our brain.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 12:47:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/13/2011 5:34:57 PM, Hambone wrote:
I guess it depends on one's definition of a soul. Mine is the driving force of the engine of your body, from which we get original inspiration and uniqueness and feelings and all that happy business.

Our inspiration comes from our experience. That has nothing to do with a soul. Feelings are also biological (this is proven through neuroscience), so I don't see why a soul is relevant.

I could see there being a soul outside of a body, maybe after death.

How? Even by your definition of soul (which I personally find silly, but I digress), it wouldn't make sense that a soul can exist outside of a body after death, considering it would no longer be the "driving engine of your body," and beyond death you wouldn't have feelings. Your life functions cease meaning your ability to feel, think, etc. also ceases when your brain stops working. You would have to prove that some concept of a "soul" can exist without a brain, or that feelings and thoughts transcend physical reality which is just poppycock.

But can you imagine a soul without the existence of God? Is it merely a matter of linking the afterlife with God? Can you believe in Souls while not believing in God? They seem too connected to me, and not necessarily to one God in particular.

Of course they're connected. Theists tend to have issues with their own mortality, which is why they fabricated an idea about perpetuating our existence after death. Why would a rational person believe that you can continue to have thoughts after death without a functioning brain? If you're going to believe that then you might as well go all out and accept other things that are completely non-sensical, such as things surrounding the concept of God. Believing in God is a great coping mechanism; I sometimes wish I was naive enough to believe.
President of DDO
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 12:49:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yes, the concept of a soul could exist seperately from that of God, sadly there is no real evidence for a soul and the idea seems illogical.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 12:50:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/13/2011 5:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What does God have to do with souls? Souls can exist regardless of God's existence.

In fact, one of the major religions of the world, Jainism, believes in souls but no God.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The first thing that link says about souls is that every soul is potentially divine, with innate qualities of infinite knowledge, perception, power and bliss. I'm pretty sure that divinity is a religious concept. You might not have to believe in the monotheistic God, but it's a supernatural concept which I think is what the OP was asking. Something described as having INFINITE knowledge, power, bliss, etc. certainly seems very God-like to me. I would love for you to explain how a soul (as soul was described either by the OP or this link) could exist without God because I don't seem to get it.
President of DDO
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 1:02:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/13/2011 5:34:57 PM, Hambone wrote:
So I definitely believe you can achieve morality without referencing a God. There can be Good and Evil without referencing whatever higher power to which you may subscribe. However, I have a hard time coming up with an answer for whether or not the soul exists if God does not. I guess it depends on one's definition of a soul. Mine is the driving force of the engine of your body, from which we get original inspiration and uniqueness and feelings and all that happy business. I could see there being a soul outside of a body, maybe after death. But can you imagine a soul without the existence of God? Is it merely a matter of linking the afterlife with God? Can you believe in Souls while not believing in God?

They seem too connected to me, and not necessarily to one God in particular.

Depends on how you define "soul," as you said. Based on the definition you provided, a God is not needed.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 1:03:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:50:35 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 7/13/2011 5:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What does God have to do with souls? Souls can exist regardless of God's existence.

In fact, one of the major religions of the world, Jainism, believes in souls but no God.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The first thing that link says about souls is that every soul is potentially divine, with innate qualities of infinite knowledge, perception, power and bliss. I'm pretty sure that divinity is a religious concept. You might not have to believe in the monotheistic God, but it's a supernatural concept which I think is what the OP was asking. Something described as having INFINITE knowledge, power, bliss, etc. certainly seems very God-like to me. I would love for you to explain how a soul (as soul was described either by the OP or this link) could exist without God because I don't seem to get it.

That is not how a soul is ordinarily defined however... is it?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 1:17:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 1:03:59 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is not how a soul is ordinarily defined however... is it?

Define soul any way you want, and I'll point out why it either doesn't exist or has nothing to do with God. The driving force behind our existence is evolution, not a soul. Our inspiration, feelings, etc. come from our brain - not a soul. Soul is just a word people like to use because it sounds nice. "I feel it in my soul." "You're my soulmate." "After death the soul goes on." Wtf do these things even mean? These are such non-sensical declarations but we're used to hearing them in our culture despite their absurdity. Especially soulmate. Lol.
President of DDO
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 1:20:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 1:17:16 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 7/15/2011 1:03:59 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
That is not how a soul is ordinarily defined however... is it?

Define soul any way you want, and I'll point out why it either doesn't exist or has nothing to do with God. The driving force behind our existence is evolution, not a soul. Our inspiration, feelings, etc. come from our brain - not a soul. Soul is just a word people like to use because it sounds nice. "I feel it in my soul." "You're my soulmate." "After death the soul goes on." Wtf do these things even mean? These are such non-sensical declarations but we're used to hearing them in our culture despite their absurdity. Especially soulmate. Lol.

I don't believe in the soul either, it is a desperate attempt to conquer the fear of death.

However, I can see how conceptually a belief in the soul does not require belief in God.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/15/2011 2:31:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:50:35 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 7/13/2011 5:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What does God have to do with souls? Souls can exist regardless of God's existence.

In fact, one of the major religions of the world, Jainism, believes in souls but no God.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The first thing that link says about souls is that every soul is potentially divine, with innate qualities of infinite knowledge, perception, power and bliss. I'm pretty sure that divinity is a religious concept. You might not have to believe in the monotheistic God, but it's a supernatural concept which I think is what the OP was asking

No he specifically asked how souls can exist without God.

Something described as having INFINITE knowledge, power, bliss, etc. certainly seems very God-like to me.

Yes, souls in Jainism have th potential to have super powers and super knowledge, but thats really an irrelevant point.

I would love for you to explain how a soul (as soul was described either by the OP or this link) could exist without God because I don't seem to get it.

Well, tell me why God has to exist for their to be souls? Jainism is already a perfect example of existing souls without God. Nevermind the abilities of the souls.

There are many things that simply just exist and its possible that souls are a fact of existence while God is nonexistent.

It's almost as if you're demanding a designer like a Theist would.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2011 11:10:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 2:31:15 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
There are many things that simply just exist and its possible that souls are a fact of existence while God is nonexistent.

Okay, so explain how a supernatural soul can exist without a God. At best you can say the Abrahamic God doesn't have to exist, but there would still have to be a divine source (which most loosely call God).

It's almost as if you're demanding a designer like a Theist would.

"Chance is a word void of sense; nothing can exist without a cause" -- Voltaire
President of DDO
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2011 1:28:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The soul is made up of the electrical impulses that go on in your head. The soul clearly exists in a natural form. The existence of a supernatural soul isn't something I'd consider to be a rational belief.

To believe in the supernatural is to deny rationality. If the supernatural exists, that would make the human race very insane. I'm not talking about in the obvious way that we are insane, either.

Now depending on your definition of God, the soul may or may not require God.

According to my definition of God, God clearly exists, and a belief in it is a given.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/17/2011 6:04:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/17/2011 11:10:36 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 7/15/2011 2:31:15 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
There are many things that simply just exist and its possible that souls are a fact of existence while God is nonexistent.

Okay, so explain how a supernatural soul can exist without a God. At best you can say the Abrahamic God doesn't have to exist, but there would still have to be a divine source (which most loosely call God).

Why?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
joze14rock
Posts: 2
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/20/2011 2:07:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
According to Aristotle, yes the soul exists even without a God.
His Prime Mover is not really a God in the Judeo-Christian sense. That's Aquinas screwing about Aristotle.
Soul = Form