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The Five Regimes

Plato_ATODT
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9/1/2011 12:32:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
ATODT

http://gaplauche.com...

Plato adequately and accurately describes how regimes fall and degrade into eventual democracy and tyranny. However, very little is dedicated to how to go from Tyranny back to the ideal form of Aristocracy. Plato wisely recognizes that even Aristocracy will decline into Timocracy in enough time, however he gives us hope by showing how it is likely to happen and thus allowing our philosophers to recognize it prior to collapse.

This is currently meaningless to us, as we are not in an Aristocracy to maintain. We have sunk down to a democracy and must find a path back. But while we are in a democracy, there are surely philosophers among us. Individuals that can find a way to restore the virtue of justice to the military and law enforcement so that we can retake the land and restore the Aristocracy.
The Philosopher King will rule when the time is right.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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9/1/2011 1:41:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have been becoming less satisfied with democracy as of late myself - at least at the macro scale. People are so easily molded by the aristocracy, and when our choices are conveniently limited to a dual-party system in which each of the candidates is pretty status-quo (and in the pockets of the rich who they depend on to finance their election campaign), it would seem that this is actually the perfect vehicle for tyrrany.

We have always been ruled tyrannically by the rich; the only difference now is that the rich are learning. They know that outright oppression and crude tactics trigger uprisings, and they don't want to end up like the French royalty several hundred years ago! There are many tools the aristocracy use to control us. Nationalism, capitalism, and socialism are probably the main three but with some more thought that list would be refined. One key factor that I notice is complexity; in previous centuries, peasants would pay landlords outright. In today's complex world of banking, taxing, etc., money is like water in a lake; as you work, you add to the lake in small amounts until it is time to extract your payment. You never quite know how much you truly put into the lake, you never truly know how the currents are appropriating the funds underwater, or where there are pipes underground extracting it. When landlords would simply take half of what you produced they didn't enjoy this cloak of secrecy, not to mention the legitimacy that comes with attaching "democracy" to our system and stoking the flames of nationalism.

Americans' efforts at justice are redirected towards people of different countries, when it is the rich in this country that we should be leary about. If you haven't gotten it already, there's a chain email about reading bar-codes circulating around, where they direct you to read the first few digits and make sure it is American-made and not from overseas.
Rob
Plato_ATODT
Posts: 21
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9/2/2011 12:22:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The Oligarchy is superior to Democracy. While not ideal, it is a step in the right direction. When those with souls of Gold are not able to take their proper place as rulers of a nation, they often fall into the elite of business. So an oligarchy puts them closer to control again.
The Philosopher King will rule when the time is right.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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9/2/2011 1:19:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 12:22:35 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
The Oligarchy is superior to Democracy. While not ideal, it is a step in the right direction. When those with souls of Gold are not able to take their proper place as rulers of a nation, they often fall into the elite of business. So an oligarchy puts them closer to control again.

I would say that the truly gold-standard people would not fall into this petty venture of business you speak of. If you disagree, then I would only ask you: "why would they choose this path?"
Rob
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/2/2011 3:42:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 1:41:29 PM, Lasagna wrote:
I have been becoming less satisfied with democracy as of late myself - at least at the macro scale. People are so easily molded by the aristocracy, and when our choices are conveniently limited to a dual-party system in which each of the candidates is pretty status-quo (and in the pockets of the rich who they depend on to finance their election campaign), it would seem that this is actually the perfect vehicle for tyrrany.

We have always been ruled tyrannically by the rich; the only difference now is that the rich are learning. They know that outright oppression and crude tactics trigger uprisings, and they don't want to end up like the French royalty several hundred years ago! There are many tools the aristocracy use to control us. Nationalism, capitalism, and socialism are probably the main three but with some more thought that list would be refined. One key factor that I notice is complexity; in previous centuries, peasants would pay landlords outright. In today's complex world of banking, taxing, etc., money is like water in a lake; as you work, you add to the lake in small amounts until it is time to extract your payment. You never quite know how much you truly put into the lake, you never truly know how the currents are appropriating the funds underwater, or where there are pipes underground extracting it. When landlords would simply take half of what you produced they didn't enjoy this cloak of secrecy, not to mention the legitimacy that comes with attaching "democracy" to our system and stoking the flames of nationalism.

Americans' efforts at justice are redirected towards people of different countries, when it is the rich in this country that we should be leary about. If you haven't gotten it already, there's a chain email about reading bar-codes circulating around, where they direct you to read the first few digits and make sure it is American-made and not from overseas.

Wise words. When more people start realize this truth... A new system can be designed and implemented properly.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Plato_ATODT
Posts: 21
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9/6/2011 8:17:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 1:19:26 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/2/2011 12:22:35 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
The Oligarchy is superior to Democracy. While not ideal, it is a step in the right direction. When those with souls of Gold are not able to take their proper place as rulers of a nation, they often fall into the elite of business. So an oligarchy puts them closer to control again.

I would say that the truly gold-standard people would not fall into this petty venture of business you speak of. If you disagree, then I would only ask you: "why would they choose this path?"

They would choose this path, as it allows them to gather power, by the standards of that society so that they can return power to an Aristocracy. In order to get back to Aristocracy, they need power. Those with true souls of gold will not be corrupted in the process of gathering financial power.
The Philosopher King will rule when the time is right.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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9/6/2011 11:33:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 8:17:40 PM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
At 9/2/2011 1:19:26 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/2/2011 12:22:35 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
The Oligarchy is superior to Democracy. While not ideal, it is a step in the right direction. When those with souls of Gold are not able to take their proper place as rulers of a nation, they often fall into the elite of business. So an oligarchy puts them closer to control again.

I would say that the truly gold-standard people would not fall into this petty venture of business you speak of. If you disagree, then I would only ask you: "why would they choose this path?"

They would choose this path, as it allows them to gather power, by the standards of that society so that they can return power to an Aristocracy. In order to get back to Aristocracy, they need power. Those with true souls of gold will not be corrupted in the process of gathering financial power.

You seem to insinuate that they are corrupting themselves (by owning property) yet able to not be corrupted... Can you clarify?
Rob
Plato_ATODT
Posts: 21
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9/7/2011 12:12:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 11:33:03 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/6/2011 8:17:40 PM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
At 9/2/2011 1:19:26 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/2/2011 12:22:35 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
The Oligarchy is superior to Democracy. While not ideal, it is a step in the right direction. When those with souls of Gold are not able to take their proper place as rulers of a nation, they often fall into the elite of business. So an oligarchy puts them closer to control again.

I would say that the truly gold-standard people would not fall into this petty venture of business you speak of. If you disagree, then I would only ask you: "why would they choose this path?"

They would choose this path, as it allows them to gather power, by the standards of that society so that they can return power to an Aristocracy. In order to get back to Aristocracy, they need power. Those with true souls of gold will not be corrupted in the process of gathering financial power.

You seem to insinuate that they are corrupting themselves (by owning property) yet able to not be corrupted... Can you clarify?

It is not a corruption, but a failure to reach their true potential. That is not a fault of their own, but a fault of the society that they live in. By accepting this lower potential, which is the best society can offer them, they are actually getting closer to achieving their potential.
The Philosopher King will rule when the time is right.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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9/7/2011 10:03:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 12:12:45 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
At 9/6/2011 11:33:03 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/6/2011 8:17:40 PM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
At 9/2/2011 1:19:26 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/2/2011 12:22:35 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
The Oligarchy is superior to Democracy. While not ideal, it is a step in the right direction. When those with souls of Gold are not able to take their proper place as rulers of a nation, they often fall into the elite of business. So an oligarchy puts them closer to control again.

I would say that the truly gold-standard people would not fall into this petty venture of business you speak of. If you disagree, then I would only ask you: "why would they choose this path?"

They would choose this path, as it allows them to gather power, by the standards of that society so that they can return power to an Aristocracy. In order to get back to Aristocracy, they need power. Those with true souls of gold will not be corrupted in the process of gathering financial power.

You seem to insinuate that they are corrupting themselves (by owning property) yet able to not be corrupted... Can you clarify?

It is not a corruption, but a failure to reach their true potential.

Failure=/=corruption, granted. At least not strictly. But corruption could be considered a failing, for sure.

That is not a fault of their own, but a fault of the society that they live in.

Blaming things on "society" is one of the most ambiguous and least useful explanations for a problem. If you, personally, can be judged on the efficacy of your political philosophy, then you must start to at least consider some kind of specific remedial action aimed at a more specific target than "society."

By accepting this lower potential, which is the best society can offer them, they are actually getting closer to achieving their potential.

Reasoning?
Rob
Plato_ATODT
Posts: 21
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9/8/2011 7:56:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 10:03:01 AM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/7/2011 12:12:45 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
At 9/6/2011 11:33:03 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/6/2011 8:17:40 PM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
At 9/2/2011 1:19:26 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 9/2/2011 12:22:35 AM, Plato_ATODT wrote:
The Oligarchy is superior to Democracy. While not ideal, it is a step in the right direction. When those with souls of Gold are not able to take their proper place as rulers of a nation, they often fall into the elite of business. So an oligarchy puts them closer to control again.

I would say that the truly gold-standard people would not fall into this petty venture of business you speak of. If you disagree, then I would only ask you: "why would they choose this path?"

They would choose this path, as it allows them to gather power, by the standards of that society so that they can return power to an Aristocracy. In order to get back to Aristocracy, they need power. Those with true souls of gold will not be corrupted in the process of gathering financial power.

You seem to insinuate that they are corrupting themselves (by owning property) yet able to not be corrupted... Can you clarify?

It is not a corruption, but a failure to reach their true potential.

Failure=/=corruption, granted. At least not strictly. But corruption could be considered a failing, for sure.

Corruption surely is a type of failure, a failure of the soul and will. Those with real souls of gold can never be corrupted. Many may seem like they have souls of gold, but when tested, they buckle. Not all will.


That is not a fault of their own, but a fault of the society that they live in.

Blaming things on "society" is one of the most ambiguous and least useful explanations for a problem. If you, personally, can be judged on the efficacy of your political philosophy, then you must start to at least consider some kind of specific remedial action aimed at a more specific target than "society."

That is the responsibility of those with souls of gold. They are suppose to be the rulers in the ideal system of Aristocracy, so the methods for them getting us back there are best left to them.


By accepting this lower potential, which is the best society can offer them, they are actually getting closer to achieving their potential.

Reasoning?

They achieve more power to be able to move us in that direction. It takes power to make any changes.
The Philosopher King will rule when the time is right.
Plato_ATODT
Posts: 21
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9/20/2011 10:49:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I doubt that everyone agrees with this, but I'll assume that no one has the ability to refute this.
The Philosopher King will rule when the time is right.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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9/22/2011 9:20:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Plato, this site has a limited amount of members and your thread is simply too specific for this venue. I entertained it for a minute just because I happen to be a big fan of Plato, but you pretty much just got lucky that I was here - and I've actually only read a few works by him. If you want in-depth discussions about a particular thinker, you're better off going to some site that is geared exclusively for them - DDO is much too broad.
Rob