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Mind Uploading

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
RFH
Posts: 56
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11/14/2011 9:32:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.

Well, that's no fun. We agree.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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11/14/2011 12:30:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.

What if rather than copying the data, you transfer it?
RFH
Posts: 56
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11/14/2011 12:50:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 12:30:54 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.

What if rather than copying the data, you transfer it?

But can you transfer brain data to a computer?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/14/2011 1:12:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 12:30:54 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.

What if rather than copying the data, you transfer it?

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, it is a product of your brain, it arises from your brain. You can't transfer it. You may be able to copy or transfer some data, but not your actual mind.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/14/2011 1:19:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 1:12:34 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 12:30:54 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.

What if rather than copying the data, you transfer it?

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, it is a product of your brain, it arises from your brain. You can't transfer it. You may be able to copy or transfer some data, but not your actual mind.

Although your mind derives from your brain, that doesn't necessarily mean that the aggregate functionality of your brain cannot be transfered to a system that's meant to operation precisely like a brain.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I see what you're saying -- it's true that your consciousness depends not only on the synapses travelling throughout your brain, but also the various properties within your brain and the arrangement of your neurological networks.

So, to alter the question a little bit --

Would you change your position if this hypothetical computer were capable of adapting to your mind, i.e., morphologically conforming to your mind in order to produce the same consciousness (arrangement of neurons and the synapses they contain)?
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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11/14/2011 4:09:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

Depends. If you are able to utilize the components of the machine, then yes.
RFH
Posts: 56
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11/15/2011 8:25:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 1:19:09 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/14/2011 1:12:34 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 12:30:54 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.

What if rather than copying the data, you transfer it?

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, it is a product of your brain, it arises from your brain. You can't transfer it. You may be able to copy or transfer some data, but not your actual mind.

Although your mind derives from your brain, that doesn't necessarily mean that the aggregate functionality of your brain cannot be transfered to a system that's meant to operation precisely like a brain.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I see what you're saying -- it's true that your consciousness depends not only on the synapses travelling throughout your brain, but also the various properties within your brain and the arrangement of your neurological networks.

So, to alter the question a little bit --

Would you change your position if this hypothetical computer were capable of adapting to your mind, i.e., morphologically conforming to your mind in order to produce the same consciousness (arrangement of neurons and the synapses they contain)?

Are you talking about "transplanting" a mind into a computer brain?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/15/2011 8:46:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 1:19:09 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/14/2011 1:12:34 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 12:30:54 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, your mind arises from your brain. Or at least seems to do so. You would at best just be creating an intellectual clone, if done perfectly the computer you would be thinking... "wow I've cheated death" whilst YOU would still be sitting in your rotting body thinking... "oh... okay then".

And thats best case scenario.

It's probably best to simply extend the longevity of your mind by adding new brain cells or slowly replacing parts of it with computer bits.

What if rather than copying the data, you transfer it?

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain, it is a product of your brain, it arises from your brain. You can't transfer it. You may be able to copy or transfer some data, but not your actual mind.

Although your mind derives from your brain, that doesn't necessarily mean that the aggregate functionality of your brain cannot be transfered to a system that's meant to operation precisely like a brain.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I see what you're saying -- it's true that your consciousness depends not only on the synapses travelling throughout your brain, but also the various properties within your brain and the arrangement of your neurological networks.

So, to alter the question a little bit --

Would you change your position if this hypothetical computer were capable of adapting to your mind, i.e., morphologically conforming to your mind in order to produce the same consciousness (arrangement of neurons and the synapses they contain)?

I think this would just be a mental clone, from the mind clone's perspective he may have transferred but for you, you are left where you started.

I am assuming that each mind, each consciousness is a unqiue thing directly derived from the brain, indeed is the brain.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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11/15/2011 2:23:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

Yes, you would exist in the computer.

Let's say you didn't die after you were uploaded. Then the answer would be: Yes, two of you now exist.

The mind is the result of (what we regard as) mechanical processes in the brain. If you upload your brain to a computer, then you would have an additional mind supported by the mechanical (in a scence) processes of the computer (a virutal neural network). Both would still be conscious (probably, but why doubt it) and both would be experience themselves to be the real you.

It occured to me the other day that something like this may happen all the time. For any given moment we are alive, or mind is simply destroyed. But, before the mind is destroyed, it is copied into the next moment. We experience this as a continious stream of consciencness. But the important thing to note is that we are always under the illusion that our mind, in any given moment, is old, when in reality it is brand new.

All this sounds insane of course, but that is because our language wasn't designed to express these ideas nor are these ideas meant to be intuitive. It's speculative any way. Who knows how matter or minds truely progress through the dimension of time.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Chthonian
Posts: 247
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11/15/2011 8:52:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/14/2011 9:06:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/14/2011 8:31:13 AM, RFH wrote:
If the contents of your brain were copied to a computer before you died, would you continue to exist afterwards?

No.

Your mind does not exist independently of your brain

I agree with this assessment. The mind is not just manifested by the interconnection of neural networks; the mind is greatly influenced and determined by modifications in the strength of chemical synapses, known as long-term potentiation. There is no contents of the brain that can be downloaded to preserve ones mental existence; the mind can't be simulated by a machine.