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addressing a common misconception

CosmicAlfonzo
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12/17/2011 1:48:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Too many people seem to look at philosophy as how one should live their life. Instead, when reading a philosophy, think of it as an observation of how things are.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with the observations, you will come to a better understanding of a philosophy if you attempt to make sense of it from that angle.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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12/17/2011 1:51:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree, but that's probably because philosophy has different meanings in various contexts. If you say, "That's the philosophy I live by," then you're saying it's the way you think you should live your life. However if someone uses it in the context of, "Well that's his philosophy," then they're acknowledging the word to mean an observation rather than a guideline, necessarily. But yeah, there are a ton of philosophies. Some are observations. Some are opinions. Some are right. Some are wrong. I'm starting to agree with your "Everything is absurd" POV more and more ;)
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darkkermit
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12/17/2011 1:57:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yea, it is preferable to look at things through a postivist point of view rather than a normative point of view. It allows less bias, and more accurate view of the world picture. Once we realize that actions are neither good or bad, they just are, we can learn truths, some that others might find horrifying, and not even shrug from a moral perspective.
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belle
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12/17/2011 2:02:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
i don't think they're entirely distinct... the way things are has profound implications for how you should live your life. even if you don't set out to study ethics you can't completely purge your mind of your various goals and desires... and if by doing philosophy you discover something about how the world is that will likely effect how you choose to go about your life from that point on. as it should.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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12/19/2011 12:49:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't completely understand, some philosophers don't really preach while others do give a good amount of their work as direct advice on how to live. Why should we view something that is direct advice on how to live as a description of "how things are?" If it's, say, Peter Singer writing on animal rights or world poverty it's a clear description of both how things are combined with moral arguments to reach that normative level.
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 1:02:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The goals people have, the things they wish to avoid, personal desire, culture, information, vantage point, and even language itself all effect philosophical output.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
OMGJustinBieber
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12/19/2011 1:19:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So? You're telling me how to read philosophy here, shouldn't I just read that statement as a statement of how things are? You don't escape this charge of being subject to cultural influences, personal desire, etc.

These things, in and of themselves, don't invalidate an argument. I mean, I guess I see where you're coming from in some sense - "Aristotle believes X, Y, and Z and provides such and such a reason" but if you want gain from philosophy you need to personally evaluate those arguments. Philosophy is not just the historical recitation of viewpoints, and if that's how you perceive it you probably find it very boring.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/19/2011 1:29:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 1:19:03 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
So? You're telling me how to read philosophy here, shouldn't I just read that statement as a statement of how things are? You don't escape this charge of being subject to cultural influences, personal desire, etc.

These things, in and of themselves, don't invalidate an argument. I mean, I guess I see where you're coming from in some sense - "Aristotle believes X, Y, and Z and provides such and such a reason" but if you want gain from philosophy you need to personally evaluate those arguments. Philosophy is not just the historical recitation of viewpoints, and if that's how you perceive it you probably find it very boring.

This.

Matter fact, I might sig that
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 2:23:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm informing people of another way of looking at philosophy. Do you see how this is beneficial to philosophical thought?

Why would a particular philosophy tell you what to do? What is gained intellectually from obedience alone? Behind every morality, there is a reason. Usually one that isn't as otherworldly as it might seem.

Part of studying philosophy is looking at the world in a different way than you are used to. Many seemingly contradictory philosophies do not in fact contradict when you understand this.

Many think they understand a philosophy without truly understanding why it may make the claims that it does.

Every conclusion is effected by the tool that is being used to measure.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
OMGJustinBieber
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12/19/2011 3:02:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/19/2011 2:23:22 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I'm informing people of another way of looking at philosophy. Do you see how this is beneficial to philosophical thought?
Eh.
Why would a particular philosophy tell you what to do? What is gained intellectually from obedience alone? Behind every morality, there is a reason. Usually one that isn't as otherworldly as it might seem.

Because the philosophers are putting forth an idea that they perceive as valid or morally binding. Why do you insist on making philosophy devoid of normative prescriptions or substance? That's seemingly what you're trying to do and it renders so much philosophical thought meaningless when it's just boiled down its descriptive essentials. Once of the major questions in philosophy is how one ought to live. It's not "obedience" in a derogatory sense if you truly agree with the argument put forth.

Part of studying philosophy is looking at the world in a different way than you are used to. Many seemingly contradictory philosophies do not in fact contradict when you understand this.

I don't completely understand, if two philosophies contradict each other then they contradict and it's precisely because they see the world in different ways that this contradiction is possible.

Many think they understand a philosophy without truly understanding why it may make the claims that it does.
Ok.
Every conclusion is effected by the tool that is being used to measure.
Ok.
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 3:05:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What are we disagreeing on?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 3:09:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"How you should live your life" is meaningless without attaching "if *fill in the blank*".

This itself is philosophy, maybe even metaphilosophy(which almost sounds redundant), but it is true none tge less.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
OMGJustinBieber
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12/19/2011 3:09:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Too many people seem to look at philosophy as how one should live their life. Instead, when reading a philosophy, think of it as an observation of how things are."
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 3:16:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What can you do without altering the text to make it a true statement? Don't say that it can't be made true.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
OMGJustinBieber
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12/19/2011 3:30:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
To make what a true statement?

Whatever, I'm going back to my first point: If you're not reading philosophy to further your own understanding about how one ought to live or any other of the major questions philosophy seeks to answer then you're not getting the full worth of that text.
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 3:41:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A philosopher you are not.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 3:53:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
First of all, I thought you were 16 or 14, or something. Secondly, anyone who goes to school for philosophy is a tool.

Thirdly, you are lazy minded. I'll talk with you further on the subject when you pull your head out your arse. Of course, since you are likely offended at my words, the odds of you doing so in a timely manner are next to nil.

Wonka wonka.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
OMGJustinBieber
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12/19/2011 4:10:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Now you've resorted to insults because I disagree with you, and I almost didn't comment on this thread because I knew if I disagreed with you - who through reading and understanding Principia Discordia and smoking God-knows-how-much marijuana - has reached a spiritual epiphany into the nature of truth and existence allowing you to label those who disagree with your absurdist philosophy as ignorant and stupid. And you're calling me lazy minded?
CosmicAlfonzo
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12/19/2011 4:39:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You won't take part in my mental experiment, and you are going to try to turn my mentally lazy comment around on me?

I can't figure out the riddle for you dawg, I can only point you towards the answer. Don't let your own insecurity prevent you from looking at yourself rather than me. I'm irrelevant.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp