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Male Circumcision

OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:32:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't mind it, and *sorry about making this awkward* make things easier...
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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2/9/2012 3:36:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What's wrong with cutting off body parts?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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2/9/2012 3:37:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It has it hygienic benefits. And a for the child not being able to choose, well that is irrelevant. If babies could choose they wouldn't eat their vegetable or get vaccinated.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/9/2012 3:39:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Parents have a moral responsibility of the child, so I think they should be allowed to perform circumcision on him. If he has unsafe sex or something similar during his teen years where the parents still have full responsibility over him, they have to pay the price. They should be allowed to lower the risk heavily.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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2/9/2012 3:39:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:32:15 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I don't mind it, and *sorry about making this awkward* make things easier...

This topic is actually really complex the more I think into it. The issue that you don't mind it now doesn't tell me much. What the procedure does is literally wack off a part of a child's genitals without his consent, but in earlier stages of brain development. I think if disease resistance stats are balanced on both sides it might be tough to come up with a secular justification.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/9/2012 3:41:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not sure whether it's moral (Newborns don't seem to be demonstrably rational and thus don't seem to have rights... toddlers definitely do.... not sure where the cutoff point, no pun intended, is)... personally don't regard it as a big deal.. politically, the government protecting people who aren't capable of stating a complaint to the court (except in cases like murder where they had the capability before the perp got involved) is just incoherent.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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2/9/2012 3:44:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As a general observation, this initial attitude of dismissing the issue as unimportant is a social construction. I know it's a common first reaction.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:44:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:42:59 PM, Koopin wrote:
Shoot..... lovelife is gonna be all over this.

What, is she against it?
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Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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2/9/2012 3:45:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:44:36 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:42:59 PM, Koopin wrote:
Shoot..... lovelife is gonna be all over this.

What, is she against it?

Indeed.
kfc
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:46:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:39:19 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:32:15 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I don't mind it, and *sorry about making this awkward* make things easier...

This topic is actually really complex the more I think into it. The issue that you don't mind it now doesn't tell me much. What the procedure does is literally wack off a part of a child's genitals without his consent, but in earlier stages of brain development. I think if disease resistance stats are balanced on both sides it might be tough to come up with a secular justification.

Well, I don't see how we can kill a unborn child, and thats totally ok, but if we help his hygiene later in life, thats horrible.

If the parents consent, why not? It helps in the long run, and it doesn't really affect him, in a bad way at least.. And how would we get the babies consent?
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:47:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:45:48 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:44:36 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:42:59 PM, Koopin wrote:
Shoot..... lovelife is gonna be all over this.

What, is she against it?

Indeed.

Hmm, so she if FOR killing unborn babies, but against helping them with hygiene, that doesn't detriment them at all..
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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2/9/2012 3:48:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.

You can consent to getting your wisdom teeth pulled. What if the medical science says STD rates balance between both circumcised and uncircumcised. The umbilical cord is completely necessary, there's no comparison. My initial gripe is that the change will effect the child as he grows up entirely without his consent.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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2/9/2012 3:48:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:36:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
What's wrong with cutting off body parts?

Nothing provided it has medical benefits. We amputate dead limbs all the time to prevent patients from getting septic and dying. We circumcise children because it has hygienic benefits and for religious considerations.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:49:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:48:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.

You can consent to getting your wisdom teeth pulled. What if the medical science says STD rates balance between both circumcised and uncircumcised. The umbilical cord is completely necessary, there's no comparison. My initial gripe is that the change will effect the child as he grows up entirely without his consent.

Well, clearly none of us circumcised males care. I mean, if hordes of men were protesting it, then fine, but I can't think of a downside.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/9/2012 3:50:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:31:09 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
What are DDO's thoughts on it? Do libertarians take issue with the lack of consent? Should it be standard procedure?

It should be banned, but by popular vote rather than in courts to avoid dangerous home versions.
It is horrible, unproductive, has no benefits, and harms children for no reason, the "facts" to support it are the same "facts" used to support female circ, and are, either lies, or pale in comparison to deaths and infections they cause, as well as infringing on another's body against his will.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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2/9/2012 3:51:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:49:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:48:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.

You can consent to getting your wisdom teeth pulled. What if the medical science says STD rates balance between both circumcised and uncircumcised. The umbilical cord is completely necessary, there's no comparison. My initial gripe is that the change will effect the child as he grows up entirely without his consent.

Well, clearly none of us circumcised males care. I mean, if hordes of men were protesting it, then fine, but I can't think of a downside.

Well lets say we did the same thing with earlobes. At birth, parents frequently cut off their child's ear lobe but the culture accepted the practice and only a relatively small number of men complained about this "rights violation."
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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2/9/2012 3:52:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:48:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.

You can consent to getting your wisdom teeth pulled. What if the medical science says STD rates balance between both circumcised and uncircumcised. The umbilical cord is completely necessary, there's no comparison. My initial gripe is that the change will effect the child as he grows up entirely without his consent.

When they are young they do not consent to vaccinations either. Should we quit vaccinating infants?

Besides, uncircumcised males are reportedly more likely to develop penile infections and contract STDs.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:52:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:50:32 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:31:09 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
What are DDO's thoughts on it? Do libertarians take issue with the lack of consent? Should it be standard procedure?

It should be banned, but by popular vote rather than in courts to avoid dangerous home versions.
It is horrible, unproductive, has no benefits, and harms children for no reason, the "facts" to support it are the same "facts" used to support female circ, and are, either lies, or pale in comparison to deaths and infections they cause, as well as infringing on another's body against his will.

Are you a male?

No.

So therefore, you have no say in whether or not its beneficial.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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2/9/2012 3:53:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:51:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:49:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:48:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.

You can consent to getting your wisdom teeth pulled. What if the medical science says STD rates balance between both circumcised and uncircumcised. The umbilical cord is completely necessary, there's no comparison. My initial gripe is that the change will effect the child as he grows up entirely without his consent.

Well, clearly none of us circumcised males care. I mean, if hordes of men were protesting it, then fine, but I can't think of a downside.

Well lets say we did the same thing with earlobes. At birth, parents frequently cut off their child's ear lobe but the culture accepted the practice and only a relatively small number of men complained about this "rights violation."

Well, how does that benefit you? I'm just saying, it is, not trying to make this awkward, helpful.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/9/2012 3:53:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:42:59 PM, Koopin wrote:
Shoot..... lovelife is gonna be all over this.

lawl xD
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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2/9/2012 3:55:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:52:14 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:48:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.

You can consent to getting your wisdom teeth pulled. What if the medical science says STD rates balance between both circumcised and uncircumcised. The umbilical cord is completely necessary, there's no comparison. My initial gripe is that the change will effect the child as he grows up entirely without his consent.

When they are young they do not consent to vaccinations either. Should we quit vaccinating infants?

Besides, uncircumcised males are reportedly more likely to develop penile infections and contract STDs.

Vaccinations have overwhelming utilitarian support and do not permanently alter the body. My ear lobe example is much more analagous.

And there are other diseases which circumcised men are more at risk for. I've done a little research and there's evidence on both sides, and I'm not fully committed to the position, but does it stop being moral if there is no net disease reduction?
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/9/2012 3:56:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:31:09 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
What are DDO's thoughts on it? Do libertarians take issue with the lack of consent? Should it be standard procedure?:

There's literally no reason, whatsoever, to circumcise one's own son. I'm cut, so is my son, but I've since researched it and regret it. It's simply an archaic custom passed down by the Mesopotamian culture.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/9/2012 3:56:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Tho once is age of majority they should be able to alter their body however they want, tats, cut off part or all of their genitals, cut off arms or legs or other body parts, plastic surgery, etc.

No one has a right to force it on anyone else.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/9/2012 3:57:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lovelife, are you serious? Where are you getting your information?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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2/9/2012 3:57:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:53:40 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:51:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:49:18 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:48:05 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:44:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I support the practice. It's like getting your wisdom teeth pulled. We evolved with errors. Circumcision is best done at birth just like they cut the umbilical cord. I don't feel it, remember it, and extremely grateful it's done and over with and dont have to worry about it as an adult.

You can consent to getting your wisdom teeth pulled. What if the medical science says STD rates balance between both circumcised and uncircumcised. The umbilical cord is completely necessary, there's no comparison. My initial gripe is that the change will effect the child as he grows up entirely without his consent.

Well, clearly none of us circumcised males care. I mean, if hordes of men were protesting it, then fine, but I can't think of a downside.

Well lets say we did the same thing with earlobes. At birth, parents frequently cut off their child's ear lobe but the culture accepted the practice and only a relatively small number of men complained about this "rights violation."

Well, how does that benefit you? I'm just saying, it is, not trying to make this awkward, helpful.

Earlobe removal? It wouldn't, but there's a strong argument that the medical benefits in some areas from circumcision are balanced by increased medical risks in other areas. Lets say for now there are no medical benefits: Is the routine moral? Would ear lobe removal be moral if it was found to reduce cancer risk by 5%? 1%? .01%?
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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2/9/2012 3:57:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/9/2012 3:50:32 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 2/9/2012 3:31:09 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
What are DDO's thoughts on it? Do libertarians take issue with the lack of consent? Should it be standard procedure?

It should be banned, but by popular vote rather than in courts to avoid dangerous home versions.
It is horrible, unproductive, has no benefits, and harms children for no reason, the "facts" to support it are the same "facts" used to support female circ, and are, either lies, or pale in comparison to deaths and infections they cause, as well as infringing on another's body against his will.

I have read no studies on the matter that compare male circumcision with female circumcision. Male circumcision is entirely different
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.