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Thought of the Day #4

GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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4/26/2012 5:25:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anything but religion?

It occurred to me, as things do, that Christianity cannot be a religion, as it does not centre us around how well we behave.

Sam Harris made a very good point in one of his debates against William Lane Craig. It goes as follows...

What is healthy, how fast should a healthy person be able to run? That isn't a concern to us, there is no absolute answer to that question, but when it comes to religion, there are answers with equally contextual questions that have 'absolute' answers. Such as, a moral person never tell a lie. Just like there is no scale for how fast a healthy person should run, there is no scale for how may lies one should make until he or she is immoral.

That is a very good point, and it could run right across religions that centre us on morality;
'Do this, be this, promise this, and you will get into heaven!'
'Run this fast, run faster than this, run like this, and you will be a healthy person!'

Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Again, explain your view on this matter, no feelings, logic and reason only.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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4/26/2012 7:09:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/26/2012 5:25:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Anything but religion?

It occurred to me, as things do, that Christianity cannot be a religion, as it does not centre us around how well we behave.

Sam Harris made a very good point in one of his debates against William Lane Craig. It goes as follows...

What is healthy, how fast should a healthy person be able to run? That isn't a concern to us, there is no absolute answer to that question, but when it comes to religion, there are answers with equally contextual questions that have 'absolute' answers. Such as, a moral person never tell a lie. Just like there is no scale for how fast a healthy person should run, there is no scale for how may lies one should make until he or she is immoral.

That is a very good point, and it could run right across religions that centre us on morality;
'Do this, be this, promise this, and you will get into heaven!'
'Run this fast, run faster than this, run like this, and you will be a healthy person!'

Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Again, explain your view on this matter, no feelings, logic and reason only.

Don't ask from somebody what you aren't willing to dish out yourself. Your threads are horrible.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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4/27/2012 5:45:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/26/2012 7:09:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 4/26/2012 5:25:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Anything but religion?

It occurred to me, as things do, that Christianity cannot be a religion, as it does not centre us around how well we behave.

Sam Harris made a very good point in one of his debates against William Lane Craig. It goes as follows...

What is healthy, how fast should a healthy person be able to run? That isn't a concern to us, there is no absolute answer to that question, but when it comes to religion, there are answers with equally contextual questions that have 'absolute' answers. Such as, a moral person never tell a lie. Just like there is no scale for how fast a healthy person should run, there is no scale for how may lies one should make until he or she is immoral.

That is a very good point, and it could run right across religions that centre us on morality;
'Do this, be this, promise this, and you will get into heaven!'
'Run this fast, run faster than this, run like this, and you will be a healthy person!'

Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Again, explain your view on this matter, no feelings, logic and reason only.


Don't ask from somebody what you aren't willing to dish out yourself. Your threads are horrible.

Feelings I see, I'm just doing 7 of these thoughts of the day things. Come on, can't you respond better than that? What is wrong with what I have said here?
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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4/27/2012 6:50:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/26/2012 5:25:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Anything but religion?

It occurred to me, as things do, that Christianity cannot be a religion, as it does not centre us around how well we behave.


Seems like a subjective analysis.

Sam Harris made a very good point in one of his debates against William Lane Craig. It goes as follows...

What is healthy, how fast should a healthy person be able to run? That isn't a concern to us, there is no absolute answer to that question, but when it comes to religion, there are answers with equally contextual questions that have 'absolute' answers. Such as, a moral person never tell a lie. Just like there is no scale for how fast a healthy person should run, there is no scale for how may lies one should make until he or she is immoral.

That is a very good point, and it could run right across religions that centre us on morality;
'Do this, be this, promise this, and you will get into heaven!'
'Run this fast, run faster than this, run like this, and you will be a healthy person!'

Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Again, explain your view on this matter, no feelings, logic and reason only.

I seem to recall that the Bible is full of moral prescriptions. In fact, in one part there is something called 'the ten commandments'....

Maybe I read the wrong book though.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/27/2012 7:08:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 6:50:16 AM, Meatros wrote:
At 4/26/2012 5:25:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Anything but religion?

It occurred to me, as things do, that Christianity cannot be a religion, as it does not centre us around how well we behave.


Seems like a subjective analysis.

Sam Harris made a very good point in one of his debates against William Lane Craig. It goes as follows...

What is healthy, how fast should a healthy person be able to run? That isn't a concern to us, there is no absolute answer to that question, but when it comes to religion, there are answers with equally contextual questions that have 'absolute' answers. Such as, a moral person never tell a lie. Just like there is no scale for how fast a healthy person should run, there is no scale for how may lies one should make until he or she is immoral.

That is a very good point, and it could run right across religions that centre us on morality;
'Do this, be this, promise this, and you will get into heaven!'
'Run this fast, run faster than this, run like this, and you will be a healthy person!'

Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Again, explain your view on this matter, no feelings, logic and reason only.

I seem to recall that the Bible is full of moral prescriptions. In fact, in one part there is something called 'the ten commandments'....

Maybe I read the wrong book though.

Dafuq? In my bible, Snape is currently joining the death eaters... I think you've got the wrong book.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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4/28/2012 9:28:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/26/2012 5:25:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Anything but religion?

It occurred to me, as things do, that Christianity cannot be a religion, as it does not centre us around how well we behave.

Your redefining what makes something a religion. Even if a religion doesn't center around "how well you behave" if its still revolves around the existence of a deity, guess what, you got yourself a religion there bud.

Chess isn't a sport..........cause people don't run around.


Sam Harris made a very good point in one of his debates against William Lane Craig. It goes as follows...

What is healthy, how fast should a healthy person be able to run? That isn't a concern to us, there is no absolute answer to that question, but when it comes to religion, there are answers with equally contextual questions that have 'absolute' answers. Such as, a moral person never tell a lie. Just like there is no scale for how fast a healthy person should run, there is no scale for how may lies one should make until he or she is immoral.

That is a very good point, and it could run right across religions that centre us on morality;
'Do this, be this, promise this, and you will get into heaven!'

Accept Jesus as your personal savior and you will get into heaven, have certain beliefs, make certain affirmations and you will go to heaven...........you mean like that ?

'Run this fast, run faster than this, run like this, and you will be a healthy person!'


Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Even if you subscribed to that Jesus "work" is the merit thus there is no merit on your part as a refutation of some kind of merit based system, this only refutes a religion with a merit based system not morality.

If you believe that you "ought" to believe Jesus died as some kind of salvation "work", or you "ought" to believe that no merit on your part determines you getting into heaven, then this is still morality, a religion with a morality attached to it.

If you reject any kind of self merit in order to get to heaven, why not go all the way ? not only rejecting acts such as being honest and such but even acts such as choosing what to believe.

In other words even choosing to believe in Jesus is open to the charge of an "act" of self merit, Why not also reject this claim ? But this would go against the standard you gotta believe Jesus (a choice on your part) in order to get to heaven.

Again, explain your view on this matter, no feelings, logic and reason only.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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4/28/2012 10:01:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/26/2012 5:25:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Anything but religion?

It occurred to me, as things do, that Christianity cannot be a religion, as it does not centre us around how well we behave.

Sam Harris made a very good point in one of his debates against William Lane Craig. It goes as follows...

What is healthy, how fast should a healthy person be able to run? That isn't a concern to us, there is no absolute answer to that question, but when it comes to religion, there are answers with equally contextual questions that have 'absolute' answers. Such as, a moral person never tell a lie. Just like there is no scale for how fast a healthy person should run, there is no scale for how may lies one should make until he or she is immoral.

That is a very good point, and it could run right across religions that centre us on morality;
'Do this, be this, promise this, and you will get into heaven!'
'Run this fast, run faster than this, run like this, and you will be a healthy person!'

Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Again, explain your view on this matter, no feelings, logic and reason only.

Unsure what this is doing in the philosophy section. But it seems a misunderstanding has taken hold on what Christianity is all about (PS, it's in the name).

The message of a Christian isn't,

"I'm OK, you're not"

Nor is it,

"I'm OK, you're OK"

Instead I think it's a bit more realistic,

"We're all not doing too well"

But what it is certainly not is,

"I'm doing OK enough, now Heaven!"

(If that were the case more Christians would be in hell than you can imagine, myself included... we're basically one big recovery group of low-lives pretending to be like God... there's hope though)

Rather Christ paraphrased says,

"I've not called servants, I've called you friends- let me make you whole"

Does Christianity centre on morality, self merit or self achievement, like Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism?

Not at all, the reason the Catholic church had a schism was due to corrupt priests making it all about works... they still do!

But Christ gave eternal life as a free gift so that no one can boast about their works. We all distance ourselves from the Good (God) and it took a miracle and an atonement to close that distance. Hell is simply the product of God being a gentleman and honoring that choice of distance from people who want to keep it. Distance from the ultimate Good can only be bad. (badder?)

Now 'absolute' is misleading, something can be wrong without it being absolutely wrong, eg taking life is often wrong, but I'll defend my family to death with justice that may involve killing... in which case it isn't murder.

Sam Harris confuses the difference between a number or moral/immoral acts vs a standard to which each act can be judged. Not as good of a point as claimed it seems.