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Nothing ever touches anything

Nosaj5q
Posts: 175
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4/27/2012 10:06:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
On the atomic level every piece of matter in existence is just ever so slightly repelled by the electrons of whatever you are near like standing on the street the electron of your sneakers and the electrons of the pavement are not touching each other. I just think it's a little screwed up that we all just sort of levitate everywhere. thoughts?
Slimy yet satisfying"
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/27/2012 10:35:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, if your'e talking about subatomic particles, then technically, electrons are something, but the other subatomic particles are just energy fields, anyway.

On the other hand, we're just as much waves as we are particles, and our frequencies interact with other frequencies all the time.

Constantly, in fact.

Life, is but a beautiful song.
Nosaj5q
Posts: 175
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4/27/2012 10:42:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
yes but the electrons of two different substances can never touch because the negative partials repel unless of course they bond covalently.
Slimy yet satisfying"
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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4/27/2012 10:43:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:28:20 AM, Nosaj5q wrote:
just feelin the lectrons bro

I am an idiot when it comes to science so forgive my ignorance if this is dumb question, am I not then coming into contact with electrons then?
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/27/2012 10:45:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, even in a covalent bond, they still don't necessarily touch, although they interact on the macro level -- on the other hand, the photons and gravitons everything's emitting touch all over everything else.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/27/2012 10:48:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Depends.

"Do you really want me in your gravitational field right now? Just how hard do you wanna feel my gravitons?"

^^^ I guess those would be appropriate questions to ask a lady quantum physicist with whom you're flirting.
Nosaj5q
Posts: 175
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4/27/2012 10:51:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A proton walked into a bar buys drink and says "put it on my tab", the bartender asks "are you sure?" "I'm POSITIVE"
Slimy yet satisfying"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/27/2012 8:13:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Technically, atoms don't really exist.

But no, everything is connected. Physics would not work if this wasn't the case.

At the tiniest level, everything is touching, but there is no tiniest level, because the universe is infinite in magnification. Plenty of physicists would dispute this, but that is because they still believe in the mathematics they use.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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4/28/2012 11:25:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's why if the electromagnetic field that keeps us apart wasn't the right strength you could fall of a building an crash through the Earth.

I always found that fascinating.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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4/29/2012 12:23:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 8:13:29 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Technically, atoms don't really exist.

But no, everything is connected. Physics would not work if this wasn't the case.

At the tiniest level, everything is touching, but there is no tiniest level, because the universe is infinite in magnification. Plenty of physicists would dispute this, but that is because they still believe in the mathematics they use.

I believe they think that the universe has a lower limit at something called a Planck length.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/29/2012 7:46:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 12:23:07 AM, Indophile wrote:
I believe they think that the universe has a lower limit at something called a Planck length.

At 4/27/2012 8:13:29 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Plenty of physicists would dispute this, but that is because they still believe in the mathematics they use.

Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/29/2012 8:06:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 8:13:29 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Technically, atoms don't really exist.

But no, everything is connected. Physics would not work if this wasn't the case.

At the tiniest level, everything is touching, but there is no tiniest level, because the universe is infinite in magnification. Plenty of physicists would dispute this, but that is because they still believe in the mathematics they use.

What's your challenge to mathematics?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/29/2012 9:26:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was specifically talking about the formulas that they use. Obviously our understanding of physics could be more precise.

However, the way human beings perceive and process information handicaps us from ever having a perfect understanding of physics.

I still assert that there is no limit to how far you can zoom in. There is no such thing as the tiniest, there will always be something smaller.

I understand the futility of backing such an assertion, but it just makes more sense to me.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/29/2012 2:45:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 9:26:09 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I was specifically talking about the formulas that they use. Obviously our understanding of physics could be more precise.

However, the way human beings perceive and process information handicaps us from ever having a perfect understanding of physics.

I still assert that there is no limit to how far you can zoom in. There is no such thing as the tiniest, there will always be something smaller.

I understand the futility of backing such an assertion, but it just makes more sense to me.

You know what I'll bet would make the most sense to you?

M-theory.

Believe me, Fonzie, physics is absolutely beautiful, and I invite you to truly explore it.

You know what M-theory proposes?

It's a series of derivations and extrapolations leading to the composite of quarks, electrons, photons, gravitons, bosons, and other fundamental particles. They're a series of "strings that can be either open or closed in a loop. They vibrate, like say, the strings of an instrument, and the "note" they produce is essentially what indicates what sort of particle it produces. Well, essentially, bosons or fermions, which translate to either energy or matter, respectively.

The song of reality.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/29/2012 2:49:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 12:09:37 PM, Rusty wrote:
How do atoms not exist?

First, lets say we have an apple.
You could say that apple exists.
Or, you could inspect it further and see that it's actually a bunch of separate chemicals interacting with each other.
You could say those chemicals exist.
Or, you could look closer at those chemicals and see that they are mostly empty space with the occasional atom inside it.
You could say those atoms exist.
Or, you could look closer and see that those atoms are mostly empty space with the occasional neutron, proton or electron.
You could say those exist.
Or, you could look closely and see that those are mostly empty space with the occasional quark.
And there's really no limit to how far this goes except our own limitations in observance.

The point is, every time we say something "exists", it's actually just a made up contrast we use to make sense of things.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/29/2012 2:52:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In the real world, nothing "exists", other than ways that are in no way related to how we impose meaning. Because the world is not limited by our perceptions.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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4/29/2012 3:54:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 2:49:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/29/2012 12:09:37 PM, Rusty wrote:
How do atoms not exist?

First, lets say we have an apple.
You could say that apple exists.
Or, you could inspect it further and see that it's actually a bunch of separate chemicals interacting with each other.
You could say those chemicals exist.
Or, you could look closer at those chemicals and see that they are mostly empty space with the occasional atom inside it.
You could say those atoms exist.
Or, you could look closer and see that those atoms are mostly empty space with the occasional neutron, proton or electron.
You could say those exist.
Or, you could look closely and see that those are mostly empty space with the occasional quark.
And there's really no limit to how far this goes except our own limitations in observance.

The point is, every time we say something "exists", it's actually just a made up contrast we use to make sense of things.

I understand that subatomic particles exist. I also understand that "atom" is a word that we've created. What do either of these things have to do with the existence of atoms though?
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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4/29/2012 9:53:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 2:45:47 PM, Ren wrote:
At 4/29/2012 9:26:09 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I was specifically talking about the formulas that they use. Obviously our understanding of physics could be more precise.

However, the way human beings perceive and process information handicaps us from ever having a perfect understanding of physics.

I still assert that there is no limit to how far you can zoom in. There is no such thing as the tiniest, there will always be something smaller.

I understand the futility of backing such an assertion, but it just makes more sense to me.

You know what I'll bet would make the most sense to you?

M-theory.

Believe me, Fonzie, physics is absolutely beautiful, and I invite you to truly explore it.

You know what M-theory proposes?

It's a series of derivations and extrapolations leading to the composite of quarks, electrons, photons, gravitons, bosons, and other fundamental particles. They're a series of "strings that can be either open or closed in a loop. They vibrate, like say, the strings of an instrument, and the "note" they produce is essentially what indicates what sort of particle it produces. Well, essentially, bosons or fermions, which translate to either energy or matter, respectively.

The song of reality.

Why do they vibrate? Does somebody pluck those strings? Or is it in their nature to vibrate?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/30/2012 2:40:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 11:56:51 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/29/2012 3:19:48 AM, FREEDO wrote:
If you really want to get into it, nothing is anything.

Is this a defeatist philosophy?

Tis Liberation, my friend.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
RONPAULISJESUS
Posts: 29
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4/30/2012 2:56:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 2:52:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
In the real world, nothing "exists", other than ways that are in no way related to how we impose meaning. Because the world is not limited by our perceptions.

MY CAMPAIN OF PAIN STILL EXISTS
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/1/2012 1:58:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
@rusty

An atom is an imprecise box we place around phenomena that exhibits certain behaviors and functions in a certain way. Atoms exist, but they don't really. Even when you are comparing apples, you can say there are 2 apples.. but neither of the apples are equal. What we are comparing is the boxes, the symbols, not the actual objects that they are referring to. Because of this, the mathematics are not truly precise. When not all "1"s are the same, it reveals error in our understanding.

This is something that pops up in any field of study, and is an unavoidable product of the human cognitive process.

@Ren

I'm familiar with m-theory, and the string theories. They remind me of the convoluted attempts of medieval astronomers and math wizards to explain how everything rotates around Earth.

Don't get me wrong, it's all very interesting, even if a lot of it skirts that fine line between science and pseudo science.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp