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Philosophy Question

Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/29/2012 6:10:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
An interpreted presence or existence that's greater than humanity in proportion to how much greater humanity is than other sentient organisms on earth.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/29/2012 6:20:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 6:10:50 PM, Ren wrote:
An interpreted presence or existence that's greater than humanity in proportion to how much greater humanity is than other sentient organisms on earth.

This causes large problems if you value human life as equal to animal life.

However, more problems emerge when you realise that "an interpreted presence" is relative (and so what is classified as a god is relative), as well as the relativity of difference of "greater than humanity".
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/29/2012 8:10:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 6:20:21 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/29/2012 6:10:50 PM, Ren wrote:
An interpreted presence or existence that's greater than humanity in proportion to how much greater humanity is than other sentient organisms on earth.

This causes large problems if you value human life as equal to animal life.

What? Explain.

Are you saying that it's the responsibility of a God to smite those below Him/Her/It?

However, more problems emerge when you realise that "an interpreted presence" is relative (and so what is classified as a god is relative), as well as the relativity of difference of "greater than humanity".

Well, everything is an interpreted presence, making everything relative in that regard.

However, this does not belie its actuality.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/30/2012 1:45:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 8:10:53 PM, Ren wrote:
At 4/29/2012 6:20:21 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/29/2012 6:10:50 PM, Ren wrote:
An interpreted presence or existence that's greater than humanity in proportion to how much greater humanity is than other sentient organisms on earth.

This causes large problems if you value human life as equal to animal life.

What? Explain.

Are you saying that it's the responsibility of a God to smite those below Him/Her/It?

If human life is equal to animal life, then god is equal to humans, and that is not how the statement was originally intended (that, and it makes cats equal to Zeus).

However, more problems emerge when you realise that "an interpreted presence" is relative (and so what is classified as a god is relative), as well as the relativity of difference of "greater than humanity".

Well, everything is an interpreted presence, making everything relative in that regard.

However, this does not belie its actuality.

It completely destroys the purpose of language though.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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4/30/2012 11:29:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/30/2012 1:45:45 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/29/2012 8:10:53 PM, Ren wrote:
At 4/29/2012 6:20:21 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/29/2012 6:10:50 PM, Ren wrote:
An interpreted presence or existence that's greater than humanity in proportion to how much greater humanity is than other sentient organisms on earth.

This causes large problems if you value human life as equal to animal life.

What? Explain.

Are you saying that it's the responsibility of a God to smite those below Him/Her/It?

If human life is equal to animal life, then god is equal to humans, and that is not how the statement was originally intended (that, and it makes cats equal to Zeus).

Nonono, if the value of animal life is equal to human life, then the value of god's life is equal to the value of human life.

That isn't to say that we haven't acheived a state of being and consciousness so far advanced from animals, we often understand them better than they understand themselves.

An ancient Egyptian mythology, cats were equal to Zeus (so to speak).

However, more problems emerge when you realise that "an interpreted presence" is relative (and so what is classified as a god is relative), as well as the relativity of difference of "greater than humanity".

Well, everything is an interpreted presence, making everything relative in that regard.

However, this does not belie its actuality.

It completely destroys the purpose of language though.

??? I would figure that it would give purpose to language -- to bridge the otherwise insurmountable gap between people's varied interpretation to help facilitate cooperation.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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4/30/2012 11:40:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Creator
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/30/2012 11:40:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/30/2012 11:40:14 AM, phantom wrote:
Creator

Zeus
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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4/30/2012 11:41:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
hmmm

Powerful?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Stephen_Hawkins
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4/30/2012 11:47:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/30/2012 11:41:55 AM, phantom wrote:
hmmm

Powerful?

I can't think of a way to respond in a single word, so:

1. Power is subjective and shifts the public language problem I presented.
2. Gods who are weaker than other Gods count? Cos I can name some titans, for example.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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4/30/2012 12:46:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
See Wittgenstein on language games and family resemblance. The word 'god' is used in a huge range of overlapping ways. There is no necessary condition that unites all uses of the word.
Stephen_Hawkins
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4/30/2012 12:50:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/30/2012 12:46:54 PM, Kinesis wrote:
See Wittgenstein on language games and family resemblance. The word 'god' is used in a huge range of overlapping ways. There is no necessary condition that unites all uses of the word.

Which makes the entire terminology useless.

And you saying "see wittgenstein" connotes a lack of full understanding on Wittgenstein. I imagine you are referring to his later years, but I support the early year wittgenstein, not the older one.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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4/30/2012 7:38:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This question is so so so so important. People just can't seem to understand.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/30/2012 8:11:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 6:06:04 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
http://debateorg.blogspot.co.uk...

Thoughts?

It would be polite to put your topic in your thread title.

If you don't put it in your title, you should at least put it in your opening post.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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4/30/2012 8:19:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would be tempted to go back to powerful. Show me a culture where God is less powerful than your everyday human being. By "power" I would mean something like possessing capabilities outside the norm for human beings.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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4/30/2012 8:40:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/30/2012 8:19:33 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
I would be tempted to go back to powerful. Show me a culture where God is less powerful than your everyday human being. By "power" I would mean something like possessing capabilities outside the norm for human beings.

Actually I suppose various kings have been referred to as Gods.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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5/1/2012 2:22:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd say that what all Gods have in common is that they're superior to all living beings (that are not them) in at least one way.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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5/1/2012 8:06:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 2:22:02 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
I'd say that what all Gods have in common is that they're superior to all living beings (that are not them) in at least one way.

Superior to all living beings is not a "thing". Nore is betterness or existence, nor is powerfull, nore is omnipotent, nor is perfection, nor is Goodness, nor is holyness, you need to explain in what form is it superior, or better, or existing, or omnipotent(all says nothing in particluar), in what way is he good, in what way is he superior, they are hollow, concepts intill those are defining.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
SarcasticIndeed
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5/1/2012 8:34:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 8:06:04 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 5/1/2012 2:22:02 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
I'd say that what all Gods have in common is that they're superior to all living beings (that are not them) in at least one way.

Superior to all living beings is not a "thing". Nore is betterness or existence, nor is powerfull, nore is omnipotent, nor is perfection, nor is Goodness, nor is holyness, you need to explain in what form is it superior, or better, or existing, or omnipotent(all says nothing in particluar), in what way is he good, in what way is he superior, they are hollow, concepts intill those are defining.

Superior to living beings is a property all Gods have. In which way superior, it varies.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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5/1/2012 8:36:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 8:34:58 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 5/1/2012 8:06:04 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 5/1/2012 2:22:02 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
I'd say that what all Gods have in common is that they're superior to all living beings (that are not them) in at least one way.

Superior to all living beings is not a "thing". Nore is betterness or existence, nor is powerfull, nore is omnipotent, nor is perfection, nor is Goodness, nor is holyness, you need to explain in what form is it superior, or better, or existing, or omnipotent(all says nothing in particluar), in what way is he good, in what way is he superior, they are hollow, concepts intill those are defining.

Superior to living beings is a property all Gods have. In which way superior, it varies.

Exaclty and what is the property without being circular?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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5/1/2012 8:39:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Its not a property in itself. It depend on something else. aka a computer is superior if it is faster then another. Its the ability to process faster, which makes it better. Betterness or perfection or superiority are meaningless with out an actual property.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL