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Thought on two omnipotent beings existing.

phantom
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5/2/2012 12:33:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Random thought I had that suggests that it would be impossible for two omnipotent beings existing together in the same universe.

Omnipotence entails maximal ability, with restriction to logic. Having two omnipotent beings gives us a paradox however, for what if Omnipotent being#1 wants b while OB2 wants a? For example suppose OB1 wants humans to live on while OB2 wants the human race to die? It's a paradox. Logically, any omnipotent being could cause the human race to become extinct or live on. Therefore both beings logically can act upon their wishes, but if they wish two opposite things one or both of them are prevented from doing what they want to do. Thus they cannot do something within in the realm of potential reality and are not omnipotent.

Thoughts?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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5/2/2012 12:46:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 12:37:32 AM, FREEDO wrote:
A more important question is why omnipotence must entail a restriction by logic.

Well it really depends on how you define it, but I think it more likely that God could not make the sentance, I am a completely green orange happy depressed man, logical. From my experience, most people view omnipotence as the ability make any potential reality, reality.

Either way though the point remains.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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5/2/2012 12:46:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 12:46:05 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/2/2012 12:37:32 AM, FREEDO wrote:
A more important question is why omnipotence must entail a restriction by logic.

Well it really depends on how you define it, but I think it more likely that God could not make the sentance, I am a completely green orange happy depressed man, logical. From my experience, most people view omnipotence as the ability to make any potential reality, reality.


Either way though the point remains.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
johnnyboy54
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5/2/2012 12:50:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
For this reason I have always thought 2 separate Omnipotent beings to be impossible. An Omnipotent being cannot be subject to the will of another being.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
WriterDave
Posts: 934
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5/2/2012 3:56:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 12:33:42 AM, phantom wrote:
Random thought I had that suggests that it would be impossible for two omnipotent beings existing together in the same universe.

Omnipotence entails maximal ability, with restriction to logic. Having two omnipotent beings gives us a paradox however, for what if Omnipotent being#1 wants b while OB2 wants a? For example suppose OB1 wants humans to live on while OB2 wants the human race to die? It's a paradox. Logically, any omnipotent being could cause the human race to become extinct or live on. Therefore both beings logically can act upon their wishes, but if they wish two opposite things one or both of them are prevented from doing what they want to do. Thus they cannot do something within in the realm of potential reality and are not omnipotent.

Thoughts?

Spot on. Omnipotence means you can subvert anyone else's will, and that your own will cannot be subverted. Two omnipotent beings in the same causal domain is impossible.
Writer. Liberal atheist. Official "Official of the FREEDO Bureaucracy" of the FREEDO Bureaucracy.

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FREEDO
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5/2/2012 4:00:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 3:56:19 AM, WriterDave wrote:
At 5/2/2012 12:33:42 AM, phantom wrote:
Random thought I had that suggests that it would be impossible for two omnipotent beings existing together in the same universe.

Omnipotence entails maximal ability, with restriction to logic. Having two omnipotent beings gives us a paradox however, for what if Omnipotent being#1 wants b while OB2 wants a? For example suppose OB1 wants humans to live on while OB2 wants the human race to die? It's a paradox. Logically, any omnipotent being could cause the human race to become extinct or live on. Therefore both beings logically can act upon their wishes, but if they wish two opposite things one or both of them are prevented from doing what they want to do. Thus they cannot do something within in the realm of potential reality and are not omnipotent.

Thoughts?

Spot on. Omnipotence means you can subvert anyone else's will, and that your own will cannot be subverted. Two omnipotent beings in the same causal domain is impossible.

You are leaving out the possibility of them having identical will.

However, at that point, I think we would need to be asking ourselves what would justify calling them separate beings.
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fnord
OberHerr
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5/2/2012 9:03:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I never got the idea that God can't go against logic.

I mean, if he is the creator of everything, then he wrote the laws of logic, so he should be able to transcend them.

Sooo, many questions after I die for him.
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WriterDave
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5/2/2012 9:35:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 9:03:02 AM, OberHerr wrote:
I never got the idea that God can't go against logic.

I mean, if he is the creator of everything, then he wrote the laws of logic, so he should be able to transcend them.

Sooo, many questions after I die for him.

I think it was Wiploc who drew a distinction between two types of omnipotence. Being able to do everything including circumvent the laws of logic is true omnipotence. Being able to do everything short of circumventing the laws of logic is "punk omnipotence." As in, God is a punk whose toadies want people to THINK he's omnipotent.

When we walk about omnipotence we almost always mean the latter, because a) omnipotence is otherwise logically incoherent, and b) any apologist or theologian with a couple of brain cells to rub together for warmth mean punk rather than true omnipotence when they talk about God.
Writer. Liberal atheist. Official "Official of the FREEDO Bureaucracy" of the FREEDO Bureaucracy.

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