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Do babies under 2 have the right to live?

1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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5/8/2012 9:55:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Apparently RoyalPaladin thinks infanticide is justified as long as their below 2.
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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5/8/2012 10:09:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 9:55:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Apparently RoyalPaladin thinks infanticide is justified as long as their below 2.

**they're

Also, lol.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/9/2012 12:35:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I dare not speak it's name.

Where is ragnar when you need him.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2012 12:45:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
According to some experiments I read about in high school psychology, babies are probably rational after a few months, but not right at birth.

The reciprocity criterion, I'm aware of nothing testing that, so dunno.

Either way, of course, they don't have a right to be fed.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/9/2012 12:57:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 12:45:52 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
According to some experiments I read about in high school psychology, babies are probably rational after a few months, but not right at birth.

The reciprocity criterion, I'm aware of nothing testing that, so dunno.

Either way, of course, they don't have a right to be fed.

Ragnar uses a chainsaw to cut through red tape.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2012 1:14:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 12:57:00 AM, Oryus wrote:
Ragnar uses a chainsaw to cut through red tape.

Why thank you my dear.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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5/9/2012 1:21:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 12:45:52 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
According to some experiments I read about in high school psychology, babies are probably rational after a few months, but not right at birth.

The reciprocity criterion, I'm aware of nothing testing that, so dunno.

Either way, of course, they don't have a right to be fed.

What do you mean by rational?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/9/2012 1:24:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
No one has the right to life. Everything is justified. All things are permitted. There are no rules anywhere. Hail Eris.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2012 1:31:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:21:39 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 5/9/2012 12:45:52 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
According to some experiments I read about in high school psychology, babies are probably rational after a few months, but not right at birth.

The reciprocity criterion, I'm aware of nothing testing that, so dunno.

Either way, of course, they don't have a right to be fed.

What do you mean by rational?

The ability to form and operate upon concepts.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2012 1:32:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:24:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
No one has the right to life. Everything is justified. All things are permitted.
Including me dispermitting things of you.

A contradiction cannot exist in reality.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/9/2012 1:33:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:32:27 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/9/2012 1:24:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
No one has the right to life. Everything is justified. All things are permitted.
Including me dispermitting things of you.

A contradiction cannot exist in reality.

Good things reality doesn't exist. herpy derpy, I'm a toaster.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2012 1:38:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:33:49 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/9/2012 1:32:27 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/9/2012 1:24:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
No one has the right to life. Everything is justified. All things are permitted.
Including me dispermitting things of you.

A contradiction cannot exist in reality.

Good things reality doesn't exist. herpy derpy, I'm a toaster.

Drugs belong in the health forum.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/9/2012 1:41:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:38:30 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/9/2012 1:33:49 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/9/2012 1:32:27 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/9/2012 1:24:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
No one has the right to life. Everything is justified. All things are permitted.
Including me dispermitting things of you.

A contradiction cannot exist in reality.

Good things reality doesn't exist. herpy derpy, I'm a toaster.

Drugs belong in the health forum.

Then the health forum belongs in my head.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2012 1:42:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Only if it uses proper protection.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/9/2012 1:46:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
How can a baby fit in a toaster?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/9/2012 1:52:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:46:11 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
How can a baby fit in a toaster?

It's a big toaster.

Or some idiot put the fetus jelly on the bread before toasting it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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5/9/2012 11:22:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 9:55:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Apparently RoyalPaladin thinks infanticide is justified as long as their below 2.

Did RoyalPaladin actually say that, or are you inferring it from something she said?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/9/2012 11:27:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 11:22:56 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 5/8/2012 9:55:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Apparently RoyalPaladin thinks infanticide is justified as long as their below 2.

Did RoyalPaladin actually say that, or are you inferring it from something she said?

He's taking something out of context, then posting it as if it is a general statement.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/9/2012 3:20:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I believe that after the start of the third trimester, a fetus has the right to not be harmed or terminated (it's during this time, in which the neotox develops). However, I logically see nothing wrong with abortions during the first or second trimester. However, once the child is born, to terminate the child would not be morally acceptable.

Whoever said terminating a child who is born, as long as they are under 2, needs to get their head checked (assuming of course, this statement was actually laid down as a legitimate opinion).
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/9/2012 3:27:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Babies are shapeless bags of fat that do not deserve life outside of mah belly.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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5/9/2012 3:29:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 11:22:56 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 5/8/2012 9:55:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Apparently RoyalPaladin thinks infanticide is justified as long as their below 2.

Did RoyalPaladin actually say that, or are you inferring it from something she said?

Nope, she actually said that. Ober has the link.
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/9/2012 4:32:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:14:27 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/9/2012 12:57:00 AM, Oryus wrote:
Ragnar uses a chainsaw to cut through red tape.

Why thank you my dear.

It's the truth!
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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5/9/2012 4:35:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The age is not so relavant at the situation at hand. Its not so cut and dry, its layered. What are the condition in the each particular situation?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
SM1970
Posts: 1
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5/9/2012 7:26:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 3:20:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I believe that after the start of the third trimester, a fetus has the right to not be harmed or terminated (it's during this time, in which the neotox develops). However, I logically see nothing wrong with abortions during the first or second trimester. However, once the child is born, to terminate the child would not be morally acceptable.

Whoever said terminating a child who is born, as long as they are under 2, needs to get their head checked (assuming of course, this statement was actually laid down as a legitimate opinion).

Why? Google the Post Birth Abortion paper. Technically infants under around 18 months dont have self awareness and are therefore not persons.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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5/9/2012 8:56:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 7:26:18 PM, SM1970 wrote:

Technically infants under around 18 months dont have self awareness and are therefore not persons.

Technically you are quite ignorant of the meaning of "technical."

I have a daughter who is about 18 months old. She is not going through any major change right now that is going to qualify her for personhood. Self-awareness is not only poorly defined, but it has no seemingly relevant implications to your personhood or your life's value. At best it is just one factor among many which we would take into account..

You are all looking at this question from the wrong angle. Do not ask yourselves what value an infant has, either toward its own ends or towards society's - ask yourselves what situation would present itself in which taking a baby's life would be justified. If you need outrageously unlikely scenarios to achieve a moral result in killing an infant, then you have your answer. If there are somewhat typical situations in which taking an infant's life is justified, then you have the opposite answer.
Rob
YYW
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5/10/2012 2:52:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This. Is. Hilarious.

You will all politely forgive my dark sense of humor.

I suppose that rather redefines the term late-term abortion. From third trimester (which I almost feel compelled to point out to all who still evaluate the moral worth of an abortion from the perspective of trimesters are, well, behind the times) or after a period of viability to post-birth abortions. I suppose if you really wanted to push the envelope, why cast the death penalty as the death penalty? Why not just call it an -exceptionally late term- abortion?
Tsar of DDO
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/10/2012 11:17:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 8:56:55 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 5/9/2012 7:26:18 PM, SM1970 wrote:

Technically infants under around 18 months dont have self awareness and are therefore not persons.

Technically you are quite ignorant of the meaning of "technical."

I have a daughter who is about 18 months old. She is not going through any major change right now that is going to qualify her for personhood. Self-awareness is not only poorly defined, but it has no seemingly relevant implications to your personhood or your life's value. At best it is just one factor among many which we would take into account..

Except that self-consciousness is important. Does a fly care about whether it lives or dies? Of course not, because without self-consciousness it does not have any goals or desires for the long term. No non-self-conscious being can desire a car, or to pay off a mortgage, or whether it lives or dies. Thus, it is the most important factor when taking into account the interests of those involved.

Now, is it poorly defined? We have many empirical experiments showing that at 18-24, a child gains self-awareness. When you put a sticker to its face or blush, a child wipes it of its own face the majority of the time, not from the mirror. This is because it is self-aware. The studies explain how this works well.

You are all looking at this question from the wrong angle. Do not ask yourselves what value an infant has, either toward its own ends or towards society's - ask yourselves what situation would present itself in which taking a baby's life would be justified.

No, generalise the question. What situation is it OK to end a conscious, but not self-conscious, life. From that, we get the best accomplishments.

If you need outrageously unlikely scenarios to achieve a moral result in killing an infant, then you have your answer. If there are somewhat typical situations in which taking an infant's life is justified, then you have the opposite answer.

...relativism? I don't think it is needed.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/10/2012 12:45:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 12:38:17 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 5/10/2012 11:20:58 AM, drafterman wrote:
Yes.

Next question.

Do chickens have large talons?

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