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Arguing about abortion is idiotic.

YYW
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5/14/2012 11:05:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Some thoughts on the subject of abortion:

I live in South Carolina. In Greenville, on Woodruff Road two individuals "protest" abortion by walking up and down the sidewalk holding signs and pushing a doll in a stroller. This I have seen several times.

DISCLAIMER: Recognize that just because the act of arguing about the topic of abortion may be idiotic, that does not necessarily imply that persons who engage in that act are themselves, idiots. While this may be the case, arguing about abortion is not sufficient to make someone to be an idiot.

Arguing about abortion on here, in so vitriolic a manner as many have, is pointless. I assume that if a person makes fifteen (arbitrarily chosen number, btw) arguments for or against any subject that they have some sort of personal or emotional investment in the issue. Let's explore that personal investment for a minute.

Why would anyone have a personal investment in the choices others make, or that others have the option to easily make the choice? Will society end when abortions are performed? No. Is society harmed that abortions are perfumed? No. Have there been any significant costs which outweigh the benefits of either women being able to make the choice, the consequences of them having the option the choice, or the results for having made the choice in one fashion or another? No, and even if there were none could argue them to any degree of exaction, at least not on DDO.

Now, that is not to say that I am convinced of my own opinion. If SOMEONE can tell me ANY substantive reason why ANYONE would devote SO MUCH time and energy to debate the subject, please don't hesitate in the comments below, but the right to life argument becomes SO tenuous -just like arguments against gay marriage, gay rights, or ANY OTHER SOCIAL NON-ISSUE argued here- when rehashed over and over again.

I ask, honestly ask, what is accomplished by arguing about abortion on DDO? What possible good can anyone achieve by rehashing the arguments made by dogmatic prophets in support of either side of the cause.

Even more so, I humbly submit that Roe v. Wade will NEVER be overturned. NEVER. Reagan came close by almost appointing Bourke to the Supreme Court. Consequently, Bourke got bourked. Irony. Sucks.

Even if the debate had some possible means of achieving ANYTHING on any kind of a social scale, I could understand discussing it, but guess what? Again... abortion is here to stay.

Pro Lifers: You Lost. Two words: Move. On.
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OberHerr
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5/14/2012 11:09:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ok, look at it from our perspective.

You ask if society is hurt when you murder several thousand innocent, unborn children every year, most of them being murdered out of pure inconvenience?

You ask if its a BAD thing when that happens?

Tell me, is society hurt when people are murdered?
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OberHerr
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5/14/2012 11:10:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, and just saying, for your last points, that was often said about slavery I bet as well.
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YYW
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5/14/2012 11:15:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:09:31 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Ok, look at it from our perspective.

No.


You ask if society is hurt when you murder several thousand innocent, unborn children every year, most of them being murdered out of pure inconvenience?

I didn't ask anything. I said that arguing about abortion is idiotic. (Almost as idiotic as constructing emotionally charged straw-men which you manipulate as an easier means to persuade those who feel rather than think. Recognize that the implication here is that not only is arguing about abortion idiotic but many of the arguments themselves are idiotic, where the metric for idiocy is understood to be what I described above.)


You ask if its a BAD thing when that happens?

Nope.


Tell me, is society hurt when people are murdered?

Ahh... to answer that question would require me to argue -inevitably- the merits of abortion -which I will not do because doing so is, as aforementioned, idiotic.

lol.
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YYW
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5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:10:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Oh, and just saying, for your last points, that was often said about slavery I bet as well.

Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).
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Zaradi
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5/14/2012 11:25:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I generally don't topic discriminate (people who wanna debate a topic can debate a topic all they want), but the only problem I have with these types of debates (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) is simple (and probably already touched on): none of the arguments are different in any way, shape, or form. Not even any of the rebuttals are different. It's always the same debate over and over again, and it's tediously boring.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
YYW
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5/14/2012 11:27:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:25:23 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I generally don't topic discriminate (people who wanna debate a topic can debate a topic all they want), but the only problem I have with these types of debates (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) is simple (and probably already touched on): none of the arguments are different in any way, shape, or form. Not even any of the rebuttals are different. It's always the same debate over and over again, and it's tediously boring.

I 100% agree.
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Lordknukle
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5/14/2012 11:29:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:15:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:09:31 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Ok, look at it from our perspective.

No.

Lol


You ask if society is hurt when you murder several thousand innocent, unborn children every year, most of them being murdered out of pure inconvenience?

I didn't ask anything. I said that arguing about abortion is idiotic. (Almost as idiotic as constructing emotionally charged straw-men which you manipulate as an easier means to persuade those who feel rather than think. Recognize that the implication here is that not only is arguing about abortion idiotic but many of the arguments themselves are idiotic, where the metric for idiocy is understood to be what I described above.)

We construct the emotional straw men? Lol.

Does this sound familiar:

"The women has an ultimate right to control her own body, and that entails doing anything she wants with it. Arguing otherwise is anti-woman."

You ask if its a BAD thing when that happens?

Nope.


Tell me, is society hurt when people are murdered?

Ahh... to answer that question would require me to argue -inevitably- the merits of abortion -which I will not do because doing so is, as aforementioned, idiotic.

So you proclaim that abortion is good, while arguing it is idiotic to argue it? So basically, you say to take your position as axiomatic while saying that arguing contrary to it is absurd. Wow...

lol.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
16kadams
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5/14/2012 11:32:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:09:31 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Ok, look at it from our perspective.

You ask if society is hurt when you murder several million innocent, unborn children every year, most of them being murdered out of pure inconvenience?

You ask if its a BAD thing when that happens?

Tell me, is society hurt when people are murdered?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
OberHerr
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5/14/2012 11:32:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:25:23 PM, Zaradi wrote:
I generally don't topic discriminate (people who wanna debate a topic can debate a topic all they want), but the only problem I have with these types of debates (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) is simple (and probably already touched on): none of the arguments are different in any way, shape, or form. Not even any of the rebuttals are different. It's always the same debate over and over again, and it's tediously boring.

I have to agreed. They tend to come down to personal beliefs.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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16kadams
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5/14/2012 11:33:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:10:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Oh, and just saying, for your last points, that was often said about slavery I bet as well.

Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).

See argument 3
http://www.christianaction.org.za...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
OberHerr
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5/14/2012 11:34:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thanks for the fix Adams.

so here is your argument.

It's stupid to argue about X, because I say I'm right about X, so I'm right about X, so therefore, attempting to refute my arguments about X is stupid, because i'm right about X.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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16kadams
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5/14/2012 11:39:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:34:38 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Thanks for the fix Adams.

so here is your argument.

It's stupid to argue about X, because I say I'm right about X, so I'm right about X, so therefore, attempting to refute my arguments about X is stupid, because i'm right about X.

1. X ~> y
2. X -> X
3. X ~> y =/= X
4. X = X

I have no idea what I wrote, so yeah. I put random letters in a similar order to your wording and it made me feel special.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
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5/14/2012 11:39:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:29:45 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:15:30 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:09:31 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Ok, look at it from our perspective.

No.

Lol


You ask if society is hurt when you murder several thousand innocent, unborn children every year, most of them being murdered out of pure inconvenience?

I didn't ask anything. I said that arguing about abortion is idiotic. (Almost as idiotic as constructing emotionally charged straw-men which you manipulate as an easier means to persuade those who feel rather than think. Recognize that the implication here is that not only is arguing about abortion idiotic but many of the arguments themselves are idiotic, where the metric for idiocy is understood to be what I described above.)

We construct the emotional straw men? Lol.

Does this sound familiar:

"The women has an ultimate right to control her own body, and that entails doing anything she wants with it. Arguing otherwise is anti-woman."

Wow. You're almost funny. I love how you just assume that because I think pro-life arguments are idiotic that I must obviously embrace pro-choice arguments OR that I don't think pro-choice arguments are idiotic. +1 for making unfounded logical leaps. (Hint: both are idiotic.)


You ask if its a BAD thing when that happens?

Nope.


Tell me, is society hurt when people are murdered?

Ahh... to answer that question would require me to argue -inevitably- the merits of abortion -which I will not do because doing so is, as aforementioned, idiotic.

So you proclaim that abortion is good, while arguing it is idiotic to argue it? So basically, you say to take your position as axiomatic while saying that arguing contrary to it is absurd. Wow...

lol.

Did you go look at the debates on my profile? I'm almost flattered. I've argued that abortion is societally beneficial.

In case anyone was curious, I have argued about this myself in the past. Here's the link!

http://www.debate.org...

To say that abortion is societally beneficial is not to say that it is -in and of itself- good.

Moreover, I thought arguing about abortion was equally stupid then, I just found it entertaining to argue at the time. Now... that is less the case. I more enjoy kicking the hornets nest of sorts.
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16kadams
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5/14/2012 11:40:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Isn't your opinion about being correct subjective?
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
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5/14/2012 11:40:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:39:13 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:34:38 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Thanks for the fix Adams.

so here is your argument.

It's stupid to argue about X, because I say I'm right about X, so I'm right about X, so therefore, attempting to refute my arguments about X is stupid, because i'm right about X.

1. X ~> y
2. X -> X
3. X ~> y =/= X
4. X = X

I have no idea what I wrote, so yeah. I put random letters in a similar order to your wording and it made me feel special.

ROFLMAO
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YYW
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5/14/2012 11:45:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:33:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:10:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Oh, and just saying, for your last points, that was often said about slavery I bet as well.

Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).

See argument 3
http://www.christianaction.org.za...

That similar arguments have been made do not mean that the issues are the same.
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YYW
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5/14/2012 11:49:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:39:13 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:34:38 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Thanks for the fix Adams.

so here is your argument.

It's stupid to argue about X, because I say I'm right about X, so I'm right about X, so therefore, attempting to refute my arguments about X is stupid, because i'm right about X.

1. X ~> y
2. X -> X
3. X ~> y =/= X
4. X = X

I have no idea what I wrote, so yeah. I put random letters in a similar order to your wording and it made me feel special.

Unterfrau:
This just gets better and better. I literally burst into laughter -not common for me- when I saw this. Here is my argument, in words that I hope everyone can understand:

It is stupid to argue about things which one cannot change.
Neither side on DDO can change anything because the supreme court already invented a right to an abortion.
Therefore, it is stupid to argue about abortion.

I am neither a pro-lifer or a pro-choicer. I fundamentally don't care. Understand this.
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16kadams
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5/14/2012 11:50:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:45:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:33:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:10:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Oh, and just saying, for your last points, that was often said about slavery I bet as well.

Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).

See argument 3
http://www.christianaction.org.za...

That similar arguments have been made do not mean that the issues are the same.

The same? No. Similar? Sure.

Fetus - not a legal person
Black person - not a legal person [former]
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
LibertyCampbell
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5/14/2012 11:52:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was hoping for a thread to explain why abortion is an irrelevant issue, or explain how the Republican views of rights and the arguments against abortion contradict one another. But no. Its some flamed social liberal.

Slavery and Abortion are similar if you see the simlilarly; you are depriving rights from human beings.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
YYW
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5/14/2012 11:53:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:50:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:45:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:33:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:10:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Oh, and just saying, for your last points, that was often said about slavery I bet as well.

Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).

See argument 3
http://www.christianaction.org.za...

That similar arguments have been made do not mean that the issues are the same.

The same? No. Similar? Sure.

Fetus - not a legal person
Black person - not a legal person [former]

For your general interest:

Defintion of "tantamount"

"The same as or virtually similar to"

Tantamount is higher on the ladder of exaction than similar. If something is tantamount to something else it is similar, but if something is similar it is not necessarily tantamount.

And now:

Did you have a point?
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/14/2012 11:53:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM, YYW wrote:
Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).

The issue with slavery is that the right of the individual to be free is greater than the rights of the slave owner to own property or the rights of society to have the economic benefit derived from using slaves. The issue in abortion is that the right to life of the unborn is greater than the right of the mother to avoid the cost and difficulty of raising a child. The issue can be extended to the right of society to have more (to counter underpopulation after a war or disaster) or fewer citizens (to counter burdensome overpopulation) for the welfare of the state as a whole.

It's a common theme on many issues to have individual rights in conflict with the rights of society.

Abortion is a serious issue and hardly idiotic. Personally, I don't think it can be resolved by debate, because it involves the moral sense of the individual. I cop out by favoring the mother's rights in the first trimester and the developing fetus's rights thereafter.
16kadams
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5/14/2012 11:55:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:53:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:50:02 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:45:33 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:33:33 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:10:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Oh, and just saying, for your last points, that was often said about slavery I bet as well.

Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).

See argument 3
http://www.christianaction.org.za...

That similar arguments have been made do not mean that the issues are the same.

The same? No. Similar? Sure.

Fetus - not a legal person
Black person - not a legal person [former]

For your general interest:

Defintion of "tantamount"

"The same as or virtually similar to"

Tantamount is higher on the ladder of exaction than similar. If something is tantamount to something else it is similar, but if something is similar it is not necessarily tantamount.

And now:

Did you have a point?

Roy summed it up in his post
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
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5/14/2012 11:57:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:52:47 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
I was hoping for a thread to explain why abortion is an irrelevant issue,

I will be happy to oblige. Here is the explanation. It is very simple. Behold: Roe v. Wade.

It has been decided by powers higher than DDO.

or explain how the Republican views of rights and the arguments against abortion contradict one another.

Why ever would you hope for that?

But no. Its some flamed social liberal.

If I am that social liberal, I would humbly submit that I am apathetic, not liberal.


Slavery and Abortion are similar if you see the simlilarly; you are depriving rights from human beings.

How magnificently insightful.
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YYW
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5/14/2012 11:59:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:53:24 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 5/14/2012 11:16:51 PM, YYW wrote:
Slavery and abortion are in no way, shape or form tantamount to one another. Do you have a point, or are you just spitting in the wind? (forgive the metaphor, or don't, it really is of no consequence to me).

The issue with slavery is that the right of the individual to be free is greater than the rights of the slave owner to own property or the rights of society to have the economic benefit derived from using slaves. The issue in abortion is that the right to life of the unborn is greater than the right of the mother to avoid the cost and difficulty of raising a child. The issue can be extended to the right of society to have more (to counter underpopulation after a war or disaster) or fewer citizens (to counter burdensome overpopulation) for the welfare of the state as a whole.

It's a common theme on many issues to have individual rights in conflict with the rights of society.

Abortion is a serious issue and hardly idiotic. Personally, I don't think it can be resolved by debate, because it involves the moral sense of the individual. I cop out by favoring the mother's rights in the first trimester and the developing fetus's rights thereafter.

Ok, that I can buy, sort of. I'm curious though. Why the first trimester and not the point of viability? (Roe logic v. Planned Parenthood of PA v. Casey logic?)
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unitedandy
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5/15/2012 6:20:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:05:50 PM, YYW wrote:
Some thoughts on the subject of abortion:

I live in South Carolina. In Greenville, on Woodruff Road two individuals "protest" abortion by walking up and down the sidewalk holding signs and pushing a doll in a stroller. This I have seen several times.

DISCLAIMER: Recognize that just because the act of arguing about the topic of abortion may be idiotic, that does not necessarily imply that persons who engage in that act are themselves, idiots. While this may be the case, arguing about abortion is not sufficient to make someone to be an idiot.

Arguing about abortion on here, in so vitriolic a manner as many have, is pointless. I assume that if a person makes fifteen (arbitrarily chosen number, btw) arguments for or against any subject that they have some sort of personal or emotional investment in the issue. Let's explore that personal investment for a minute.

Why would anyone have a personal investment in the choices others make, or that others have the option to easily make the choice? Will society end when abortions are performed? No. Is society harmed that abortions are perfumed? No. Have there been any significant costs which outweigh the benefits of either women being able to make the choice, the consequences of them having the option the choice, or the results for having made the choice in one fashion or another? No, and even if there were none could argue them to any degree of exaction, at least not on DDO.

Now, that is not to say that I am convinced of my own opinion. If SOMEONE can tell me ANY substantive reason why ANYONE would devote SO MUCH time and energy to debate the subject, please don't hesitate in the comments below, but the right to life argument becomes SO tenuous -just like arguments against gay marriage, gay rights, or ANY OTHER SOCIAL NON-ISSUE argued here- when rehashed over and over again.

I ask, honestly ask, what is accomplished by arguing about abortion on DDO? What possible good can anyone achieve by rehashing the arguments made by dogmatic prophets in support of either side of the cause.

Even more so, I humbly submit that Roe v. Wade will NEVER be overturned. NEVER. Reagan came close by almost appointing Bourke to the Supreme Court. Consequently, Bourke got bourked. Irony. Sucks.

Even if the debate had some possible means of achieving ANYTHING on any kind of a social scale, I could understand discussing it, but guess what? Again... abortion is here to stay.

Pro Lifers: You Lost. Two words: Move. On.

This is maybe the one issue where I think the left is not only clearly wrong, but arrogantly so. The question of whether abortion should be legal is a difficult one, and there are all sorts of things to consider. The act of ending a potential life for reasons like convenience is an ugly reality, and one which we should always question the morality of. Abortion is not something I've looked at a great deal, but the attitude of dismissing Pro-life arguments away is both very common (especially in the UK) and pretty horrifying. All one has to do to "get" the right to life argument is to either watch or read a description of a late-term abortion.
Stephen_Hawkins
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5/15/2012 6:51:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am for abortion. This person does not speak for the majority of the (intelligent) "pro-choice" community.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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YYW
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5/15/2012 10:56:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 6:51:37 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I am for abortion. This person does not speak for the majority of the (intelligent) "pro-choice" community.

I don't speak for either side. Recognize, as you clearly seem incapable of doing so, that I am neither pro life nor pro choice, if you are intellectually capable.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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5/15/2012 11:14:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 6:20:08 AM, unitedandy wrote:

This is maybe the one issue where I think the left is not only clearly wrong,

Clearly wrong? You seem to comprehensively have missed the point of what was said. Again, this is not especially uncommon, because people -stupidly- believe that if one is not pro life then they must be pro choice, but recognize that I am neither.

but arrogantly so.

A vice which I have frequently been accused of, but to generalize the entire "left" as arrogant on this issue is a bit pretentious. I could respond in kind by saying that the entire pro life movement is hopelessly deranged for swimming so hopelessly up stream, but I won't, because I have never been a fan of rhetorical beau geste.

The question of whether abortion should be legal is a difficult one, and there are all sorts of things to consider.

No it isn't. Although perhaps I should have been more specific. Arguing about wether abortion should be legal in America is idiotic. Here's why though, since, again, you seem a bit predisposed to miss things:

It is legal. It has been for some time and will always be. It never will be illegal. Given that this status quo is untenable by ANYONE on DDO, why argue about it?

The act of ending a potential life for reasons like convenience is an ugly reality, and one which we should always question the morality of.

LOL

Abortion is not something I've looked at a great deal, but the attitude of dismissing Pro-life arguments away is both very common (especially in the UK) and pretty horrifying.

The reason, I suppose, that pro life arguments are commonly dismissed is because people who either are pro-choice or who do not embrace either side (me) get frustrated when we see people fighting things they will NEVER change. Abortion is here to stay in much of the developed world. This is a reality which pro-life people seem unwilling to accept.

Abortion, therefore, is a moot issue. To argue the merits of an issue that has already been decided seems not only nonsensical, but idiotic. Moreover, where NO possible change could be effectuated (DDO), it seems even more idiotic to argue about it here.

All one has to do to "get" the right to life argument is to either watch or read a description of a late-term abortion.

My argument is that it is stupid to advance either argument (life or choice). And sure, watching a late term abortion is horrific -or would be, I suppose. Watching most medical procedures, regardless of what they are about, is horrific. But then again, horrific is a subjective word, and not all people view things in that way. I'm guessing you had a point to that, but in reality even if you did, you can't change anything, so you're really not accomplishing much.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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5/15/2012 11:27:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 10:56:29 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/15/2012 6:51:37 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
I am for abortion. This person does not speak for the majority of the (intelligent) "pro-choice" community.

I don't speak for either side. Recognize, as you clearly seem incapable of doing so, that I am neither pro life nor pro choice, if you are intellectually capable.

So... my comment was correct.

Point two: law of non-contradiction: either you're for abortion, or you're not. You specifically and explicitly say you're not not for abortion, i.e. you're not a pro-lifer, which makes you a pro-choicer.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...