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Peace impossible: Life is designed for strife

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/30/2012 7:42:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In a determined universe, things happen because there is no other way it canhappen. An event occurs because the preceding conditions force them to occur. Arguing is probably among the smallest and least powerful causes in this system. We don't change our minds through some force of reason like we think we do. Logic is insignificant. It is a preceding mental condition, preceding societal condition and other elusive factors unbeknownst to us that determine opinion.

Now add to that the fact that things are neither good nor bad....they just are, the presuppositions on which we make our arguments are faulty from the start. Morals are not objective, and they vary from person to person. Good cannot prevail for good does not exist. Evil cannot prevail for evil does not exist. Yet we all have different senses of what is good and bad and each of us earnestly believe that our perceptions are the more virtuous. It is a futile crossfire aimed at an imaginary goal. This makes the crossfire endless, and the unrest perpetual.

At the core of why we don't even bother to debate about methods of ending war is this fact. Humanity is made to chase it's own tail in dismal frustration all the while, like a confused dog, believing it is on a linear path to peace.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/30/2012 7:43:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For the whole post: +1
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thett3
Posts: 14,348
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5/30/2012 7:54:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 7:42:32 PM, 000ike wrote:


At the core of why we don't even bother to debate about methods of ending war is this fact. Humanity is made to chase it's own tail in dismal frustration all the while, like a confused dog, believing it is on a linear path to peace.

That's probably the greatest simile I have ever heard.
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: thett was right
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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5/30/2012 8:08:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 7:42:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
In a determined universe, things happen because there is no other way it canhappen. An event occurs because the preceding conditions force them to occur.
Can alternate events be induced by these "preceding conditions"? Or is there only a general type of effect that you speak of...
Arguing is probably among the smallest and least powerful causes in this system. We don't change our minds through some force of reason like we think we do. Logic is insignificant. It is a preceding mental condition, preceding societal condition and other elusive factors unbeknownst to us that determine opinion.

Now add to that the fact that things are neither good nor bad....they just are, the presuppositions on which we make our arguments are faulty from the start. Morals are not objective,
How would you disprove the existence of objective, shared values, ike? Just curious to see that statement...
and they vary from person to person. Good cannot prevail for good does not exist. Evil cannot prevail for evil does not exist.
As what?
Yet we all have different senses of what is good and bad and each of us earnestly believe that our perceptions are the more virtuous. It is a futile crossfire aimed at an imaginary goal. This makes the crossfire endless, and the unrest perpetual.
Can it be that there are shared, universal agreements on what constitutes as 'good' or 'bad' that defy any individual aspects we grant such views?

At the core of why we don't even bother to debate about methods of ending war is this fact. Humanity is made to chase it's own tail in dismal frustration all the while, like a confused dog, believing it is on a linear path to peace.
So life is designed for strife but yet contains no objective morals despite being designed, irregardless of good or evil?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
TheOrator
Posts: 172
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5/30/2012 8:45:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
However, this theory only stands up when one accepts the metaphysical philosophy of determinism. Although your twist on it was a new one to me, unfortunately it is still rooted in the cynical belief that there is nothing we can do, in this case that there is nothing we can do to prevent us from killing each other. Unfortunately this is a flawed philosophyas all humans have the ability to exercise free will, and just because bad things happen to people, it's not as though the only reason we exist is so that these bad things will happen.

Seriously though, you might want to see a counselor if you're in a state to accept that philosophy
My legend begins in the 12th century
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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5/30/2012 8:46:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 7:54:42 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 5/30/2012 7:42:32 PM, 000ike wrote:


At the core of why we don't even bother to debate about methods of ending war is this fact. Humanity is made to chase it's own tail in dismal frustration all the while, like a confused dog, believing it is on a linear path to peace.

That's probably the greatest simile I have ever heard.

Poetry...
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/30/2012 11:18:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Awesome, ike. I'm glad you're back.
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Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/2/2012 7:10:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 8:45:09 PM, TheOrator wrote:
However, this theory only stands up when one accepts the metaphysical philosophy of determinism. Although your twist on it was a new one to me, unfortunately it is still rooted in the cynical belief that there is nothing we can do, in this case that there is nothing we can do to prevent us from killing each other. Unfortunately this is a flawed philosophyas all humans have the ability to exercise free will, and just because bad things happen to people, it's not as though the only reason we exist is so that these bad things will happen.

Seriously though, you might want to see a counselor if you're in a state to accept that philosophy

The deterministic philosophy is evidence based, mostly regarding causation. Also, justification for applying it to human beings is based on neuroscience, so this philosophy does not seem to have emotional foundations or entail psychological issues in it's advocates like you fallaciously implied. Of course, who knows how much weight determinism holds in light of quantum indeterminacy.