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Why I don't do debates.

SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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6/2/2012 1:07:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.

You have a good point. It's always unfortunate to badly argue for a great position. However, you could always specifically request a tie.

Enjoy the Queen's Jubilee, mate.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/2/2012 1:07:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

Don't you think being able to articulate your views is important?


2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

Don't you think being able to effectively argue your point is important?


3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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6/2/2012 1:26:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

Welcome to DDO.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

DDO is not a place for settling moral high ground, nor is it a place for figuring out who is correct and who is not. It is a place for testing how well one debates, not the validity of the position.

I'll say this to you without even knowing you: The position you hold is wrong. The position your friend holds is wrong as well. That having been said, you both do your best to prove me wrong. That's what DDO is.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

Yes, this is true, a majority can be biased. However, no one here should vote according to who they believe most. We have our own codes and rubrics for judging the winner of a debate and all of them are independent of which position they agree with most. We value sources, facts, a logically structured response. We value good conduct and attention-grabbing techniques.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.

You can set the debate time with your friend. A debate can be finished in a matter of hours if not minutes.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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6/2/2012 3:13:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 1:07:35 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

Don't you think being able to articulate your views is important?

Yes, but if I argue my point badly, it could cause someone else to believe that I was wrong in my view, when in fact my view could be right just argued badly.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

Don't you think being able to effectively argue your point is important?

I do argue my views but not in any sort of competitive way. I could argue why it is wrong to rape, and someone else could argue contrary to it and win the argument their position on it may not be right but it would appear as though it was, due to the lack of my communication skills.


3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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6/2/2012 3:24:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 1:26:29 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

Welcome to DDO.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

DDO is not a place for settling moral high ground, nor is it a place for figuring out who is correct and who is not. It is a place for testing how well one debates, not the validity of the position.

I'll say this to you without even knowing you: The position you hold is wrong. The position your friend holds is wrong as well. That having been said, you both do your best to prove me wrong. That's what DDO is.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

Yes, this is true, a majority can be biased. However, no one here should vote according to who they believe most. We have our own codes and rubrics for judging the winner of a debate and all of them are independent of which position they agree with most. We value sources, facts, a logically structured response. We value good conduct and attention-grabbing techniques.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.

You can set the debate time with your friend. A debate can be finished in a matter of hours if not minutes.

I see no point in making it competitive. However I do see how it can cause harm, because I could argue against something I feel very passionately about and argue my point badly this could cause someone else to take the opposing persons point of view, because they have put forward better arguments. Aborton for example I feel this is morally wrong, if I debated this topic badly and lost the debate I could cause more people to see it as morally right. I sometimes find it diffciult to put ino words what I am trying to get across. So much so at night I pray that I am making a difference to those I discuss, and debate with on this site, and that my words and my posts do not let me down, but have an impact for the good and glory of God.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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6/2/2012 3:47:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 3:24:05 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I see no point in making it competitive. However I do see how it can cause harm, because I could argue against something I feel very passionately about and argue my point badly this could cause someone else to take the opposing persons point of view, because they have put forward better arguments. Aborton for example I feel this is morally wrong, if I debated this topic badly and lost the debate I could cause more people to see it as morally right. I sometimes find it diffciult to put ino words what I am trying to get across. So much so at night I pray that I am making a difference to those I discuss, and debate with on this site, and that my words and my posts do not let me down, but have an impact for the good and glory of God.

Isn't your burden as a Christian to spread the Good News and make disciples of all nations?

Think of it this way: You are given an opportunity to express your beliefs, beliefs you think are quite important, and beliefs you uphold in the moral and religious fiber of your being.

Are you comfortable being held back by the fear that the presentation of your beliefs will be inadequate to sway people? Are you comfortable giving up the opportunity to relay these beliefs?

Even if you lose one debate, isn't it possible you can learn from your mistakes and win two in the future?

Ask yourself whether or not you're comfortable giving up an opportunity to train yourself. If you really crusade for your savior, then you must temper your sword, not let it sit and rust.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/2/2012 4:04:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do YOU debate anymore, Kleptin?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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6/2/2012 4:23:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 4:04:49 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Do YOU debate anymore, Kleptin?

Nope. The forums are my retirement home.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/2/2012 4:27:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 4:23:21 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 6/2/2012 4:04:49 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Do YOU debate anymore, Kleptin?

Nope. The forums are my retirement home.

What about Logical-Master or Yraelz? Do you debate through them anymore?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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6/2/2012 4:35:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 4:27:26 PM, MouthWash wrote:
What about Logical-Master or Yraelz? Do you debate through them anymore?

HAHAHAHAHA XD

*sigh* old jokes...

Logical-Master and Yraelz aren't accounts of mine. We truly are three different people. I don't see Yraelz on the site much anymore and L-M has been gone forever. Those were good times.

I *have* thought about making a new account and debating again, just for fun, but I simply don't have the time anymore.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/2/2012 4:39:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If it were true it would put you past Danielle.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/2/2012 4:42:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.

Debate isn't about being correct. It's a competition. People debate here for the sake of debating, not to assert their opinions. They come to the forums for that.

I personally greatly enjoy debate. However, I notice that people actually vote based on their personal opinions, rather that the proficiency of the debater. Nonetheless, I haven't been able to resist getting into a debate or 15 in the years I've been here, but I haven't enjoyed any of them except the rapping competitions. It follows, because people don't really assert actual opinions in rapping competitions, so the only thing one is left to vote on is proficiency.

In any case, this site is filled with people who love to debate, though not necessarily people who like reading debate, and especially not any old debate. Accordingly, you have an asssload of great debaters, but just about every voter is pretty shiitty, if only because no one here ever reads entire debates before they vote on them.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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6/2/2012 4:44:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nonsense. I've never taken my debates as seriously as she had. If you take a cursory look at her debates in comparison to mine, you'll see a stark difference in terms of debate quality. I was definitely one of the most prolific, but definitely one of the least talented. There were a few months in which I was involved in several debates a day.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/2/2012 4:49:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I mean the percentile. And holy crap, did you have anything else to do at all?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/2/2012 5:31:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The following post by myself does not contain my actual etiquette, due to the fact that it's after the time where I can articulate myself elegantly, and before the time where I remember I should be elegantly articulate. The only reason I can post this is I remember to c/p it in.

At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

I think you confuse "won a debate" with "moral high ground".

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks a debate decides someone's objective opinion: people only change their mind when they agreed with an argument by their side, then a response by the contender makes them question it. In other words, people don't decide opinions on result, but on the actual debate.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.

Shall I go on about how the Jubilee is sunday as well?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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6/2/2012 10:36:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 4:49:28 PM, MouthWash wrote:
I mean the percentile. And holy crap, did you have anything else to do at all?

At that time, no. When I did have stuff to do, I nearly stopped debating altogether.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/2/2012 10:40:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 3:13:57 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
At 6/2/2012 1:07:35 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

Don't you think being able to articulate your views is important?

Yes, but if I argue my point badly, it could cause someone else to believe that I was wrong in my view, when in fact my view could be right just argued badly.

If you never try to argue your point well, you'll never learn how to do it well.


2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

Don't you think being able to effectively argue your point is important?

I do argue my views but not in any sort of competitive way. I could argue why it is wrong to rape, and someone else could argue contrary to it and win the argument their position on it may not be right but it would appear as though it was, due to the lack of my communication skills.

I didn't say "competitive" I said "effective"



3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/3/2012 3:55:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Can I just point out what this is implicitly saying is "I am right, but I cannot convince people, therefore I don't do debates".
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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6/3/2012 4:32:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
In a debate where it is decided one persons argument is better than another persons is not a good way to decide who wins a debate. The real way to decide if a debate is won or lost is if the opposing person you debate with changes their opinion and takes on your point of view. If you lose a debate is when you take on the opposing persons view, which would actually mean you would not care because you would feel you have been enlightened and are know all the more better for debating with that person. Of course I believe my opinions to be right. If I did not believe myself to be right I would not argue my point this is a silly statement to make, you argue because you believe yourself to be right. If someone argues better than me I still may believe myself to be right.
TheOrator
Posts: 172
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6/3/2012 10:43:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Welcome to debate.org and even though you don't want to debate on a debating site, here's my evaluation of your points:
1.) Although you do have a point in the ability to express your arguments has a factor in whether those arguments win, this stresses the need to learn this articulation. The best to learn is through practice, and as you can see this site has a lot of joke debates. My theory would be to either accept joke debates and/or debates you don't really believe in as practice for how to debate by stating your point logically, and then move on to what you believe with your newly found knowledge.
2.) Again, very good point. However, debating isn't really over who wins or loses, but rather over learning how to state your points rationally and to develop quick thinking skills (although the "quick" part mostly applies to oral debates, you can still practice here). If you win, that's great, but that's not what debating's all about.
3.) Have a good time, I heard it's gonna be nice but I don't really take much interest in it.
My legend begins in the 12th century
TheOrator
Posts: 172
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6/3/2012 10:52:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 4:32:07 AM, SeanMichael wrote:
In a debate where it is decided one persons argument is better than another persons is not a good way to decide who wins a debate. The real way to decide if a debate is won or lost is if the opposing person you debate with changes their opinion and takes on your point of view. If you lose a debate is when you take on the opposing persons view, which would actually mean you would not care because you would feel you have been enlightened and are know all the more better for debating with that person. Of course I believe my opinions to be right. If I did not believe myself to be right I would not argue my point this is a silly statement to make, you argue because you believe yourself to be right. If someone argues better than me I still may believe myself to be right.

1.) http://www.debate.org...
2.) http://www.debate.org...
3.) http://www.debate.org...
4.) http://www.debate.org...

I've taken up this debates, but I don't actually believe in them. I do them because I know it's a challenge, and if I can beat a challenge then I'm that much better than I was earlier. Plus, "If someone argues better than me I still may believe myself to be right." is kind of what we've been trying to convince you of :P. It's not like people are going to see a debate and say "OMG this topic is totally false!", they're going to say "hmm, this guy can't debate this topic well", provided you did as bad as you think you will. That's what I think when I look at arguments, anyway. Only one argument on ehre made me change my views, that was one where I was inteh middle of the road anyway
My legend begins in the 12th century
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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6/3/2012 12:28:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 1:26:29 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

Welcome to DDO.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

DDO is not a place for settling moral high ground, nor is it a place for figuring out who is correct and who is not. It is a place for testing how well one debates, not the validity of the position.

I'll say this to you without even knowing you: The position you hold is wrong. The position your friend holds is wrong as well. That having been said, you both do your best to prove me wrong. That's what DDO is.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

Yes, this is true, a majority can be biased. However, no one here should vote according to who they believe most. We have our own codes and rubrics for judging the winner of a debate and all of them are independent of which position they agree with most. We value sources, facts, a logically structured response. We value good conduct and attention-grabbing techniques.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.

You can set the debate time with your friend. A debate can be finished in a matter of hours if not minutes.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way. I can't use this site to learn how to debate better because the majority of atheists vote against me due to their bias, and their RFD's are simply bad. Even when I point out how their RFD's are bad, they can't justify them. So I'm stuck having to try and learn as I go.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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6/3/2012 12:52:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 12:28:17 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/2/2012 1:26:29 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 6/2/2012 1:03:58 PM, SeanMichael wrote:
I have been challenged to a debate contest. I have been advised to do a debate contest on this site. Well I want people to know my philosohy on why I do not do them. Then the rest of you can put forward and discuss what I have put in this post.

Welcome to DDO.

1. The reason why is because the postion I hold could be perfectly correct. Though my way of articulating my view maybe is below par. Therefore the other person could win the debate, and gets to hold the moral high ground though it is false moral high ground.

DDO is not a place for settling moral high ground, nor is it a place for figuring out who is correct and who is not. It is a place for testing how well one debates, not the validity of the position.

I'll say this to you without even knowing you: The position you hold is wrong. The position your friend holds is wrong as well. That having been said, you both do your best to prove me wrong. That's what DDO is.

2. Who decides who wins a debate?, a majority?. A majority is not always neccessarily right, so how can they decide?, a majority also can sometimes be bias of opinion.

Yes, this is true, a majority can be biased. However, no one here should vote according to who they believe most. We have our own codes and rubrics for judging the winner of a debate and all of them are independent of which position they agree with most. We value sources, facts, a logically structured response. We value good conduct and attention-grabbing techniques.

3. Also on a more lighter note I cannot debate because I only hae a chance to be on the computer from thu to sun. Except this week I am off mon nad tue for the queens jubilee.

You can set the debate time with your friend. A debate can be finished in a matter of hours if not minutes.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way. I can't use this site to learn how to debate better because the majority of atheists vote against me due to their bias, and their RFD's are simply bad. Even when I point out how their RFD's are bad, they can't justify them. So I'm stuck having to try and learn as I go.

I'll grant you that a substantial percentage of the RFD's written on any debate are authentically horrific. And it probably is too the case that some have case ballots against you because they are atheists and voted against you for no other reason then because they are atheists.

This has, from what I've read of what you have debated, not been something you have avoided. However, it is also the case that most of your debates are about things that need not be debated about. God's existence, abortion, etc. I can even grant you abortion is a semi-legitimate topic (in that people still for some reason feel it necessary to argue about it, despite the fact that they can change nothing about it), but trying to logically prove god's existence is as absurd as it is pretentious. I'm not trying to discourage you, but rather to convince you to not waste your time on what cannot be done.

But about you arguing with people about their RFD's. Here's some advice. People, when challenged, defend themselves. I once challenged a formerly prominent member of this site to justify his -idiotically cast- ballot on a debate I overwhelmingly won, and he not only continued the loss but awarded my opponent more points. His reason? He said it was because he didn't get everything the first time. Ultimately, he was just a vindictive pick. That is when I realized that voting on this site is a joke, has always been a joke, and will always be a joke, because the variable in play is not something which can be corrected.

If winning is important to you though, target your debate to the people who are going to be actually voting on it. Many times bad debates will wind up winning because people "don't feel good" about letting the other guy win. On here, for the majority of voters, they have already decided who they are going to give the win to before they even read the debate (subconsciously at least) and then go back and look for reasons to justify their position later. For some that isn't the case, but for most it is.

The other way to win friends and influence people is to build a network of neocons and get then to cast ballots for you at the last minute so that you maintain an unforeseen win ratio. This has been the case with several members. Of course, it's cheating the system, but there will always be cheating. It doesn't bother me, because there is nothing I can do about it, other than complain on the forums.
Tsar of DDO
TheOrator
Posts: 172
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6/3/2012 3:10:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 12:52:12 PM, YYW wrote:

Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way. I can't use this site to learn how to debate better because the majority of atheists vote against me due to their bias, and their RFD's are simply bad. Even when I point out how their RFD's are bad, they can't justify them. So I'm stuck having to try and learn as I go.

I'll grant you that a substantial percentage of the RFD's written on any debate are authentically horrific. And it probably is too the case that some have case ballots against you because they are atheists and voted against you for no other reason then because they are atheists.

This has, from what I've read of what you have debated, not been something you have avoided. However, it is also the case that most of your debates are about things that need not be debated about. God's existence, abortion, etc. I can even grant you abortion is a semi-legitimate topic (in that people still for some reason feel it necessary to argue about it, despite the fact that they can change nothing about it), but trying to logically prove god's existence is as absurd as it is pretentious. I'm not trying to discourage you, but rather to convince you to not waste your time on what cannot be done.

But about you arguing with people about their RFD's. Here's some advice. People, when challenged, defend themselves. I once challenged a formerly prominent member of this site to justify his -idiotically cast- ballot on a debate I overwhelmingly won, and he not only continued the loss but awarded my opponent more points. His reason? He said it was because he didn't get everything the first time. Ultimately, he was just a vindictive pick. That is when I realized that voting on this site is a joke, has always been a joke, and will always be a joke, because the variable in play is not something which can be corrected.

If winning is important to you though, target your debate to the people who are going to be actually voting on it. Many times bad debates will wind up winning because people "don't feel good" about letting the other guy win. On here, for the majority of voters, they have already decided who they are going to give the win to before they even read the debate (subconsciously at least) and then go back and look for reasons to justify their position later. For some that isn't the case, but for most it is.

The other way to win friends and influence people is to build a network of neocons and get then to cast ballots for you at the last minute so that you maintain an unforeseen win ratio. This has been the case with several members. Of course, it's cheating the system, but there will always be cheating. It doesn't bother me, because there is nothing I can do about it, other than complain on the forums.

So you only lose due to the athiestic agenda? You know, you might want to apply to Fox News, I'm sure they'd love you over there :P

I think I've voted up two out of the last seven theistic arguments, and the argument I made in defense of theism won, and the argument I made against theism lost. So no, I don't think that people only vote down due to athiestic bias :P I'm not denying the fact that (Insert DDO-censored plural word) exist on the site, but spewing your own bias isn't going to counteract everyone elses :P

Plus, don't act like arguments don't get voted down due to theistic bias as well, good sir
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YYW
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6/3/2012 4:06:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 3:10:28 PM, TheOrator wrote:
At 6/3/2012 12:52:12 PM, YYW wrote:

Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way. I can't use this site to learn how to debate better because the majority of atheists vote against me due to their bias, and their RFD's are simply bad. Even when I point out how their RFD's are bad, they can't justify them. So I'm stuck having to try and learn as I go.

I'll grant you that a substantial percentage of the RFD's written on any debate are authentically horrific. And it probably is too the case that some have case ballots against you because they are atheists and voted against you for no other reason then because they are atheists.

This has, from what I've read of what you have debated, not been something you have avoided. However, it is also the case that most of your debates are about things that need not be debated about. God's existence, abortion, etc. I can even grant you abortion is a semi-legitimate topic (in that people still for some reason feel it necessary to argue about it, despite the fact that they can change nothing about it), but trying to logically prove god's existence is as absurd as it is pretentious. I'm not trying to discourage you, but rather to convince you to not waste your time on what cannot be done.

But about you arguing with people about their RFD's. Here's some advice. People, when challenged, defend themselves. I once challenged a formerly prominent member of this site to justify his -idiotically cast- ballot on a debate I overwhelmingly won, and he not only continued the loss but awarded my opponent more points. His reason? He said it was because he didn't get everything the first time. Ultimately, he was just a vindictive pick. That is when I realized that voting on this site is a joke, has always been a joke, and will always be a joke, because the variable in play is not something which can be corrected.

If winning is important to you though, target your debate to the people who are going to be actually voting on it. Many times bad debates will wind up winning because people "don't feel good" about letting the other guy win. On here, for the majority of voters, they have already decided who they are going to give the win to before they even read the debate (subconsciously at least) and then go back and look for reasons to justify their position later. For some that isn't the case, but for most it is.

The other way to win friends and influence people is to build a network of neocons and get then to cast ballots for you at the last minute so that you maintain an unforeseen win ratio. This has been the case with several members. Of course, it's cheating the system, but there will always be cheating. It doesn't bother me, because there is nothing I can do about it, other than complain on the forums.

So you only lose due to the athiestic agenda? You know, you might want to apply to Fox News, I'm sure they'd love you over there :P

I think I've voted up two out of the last seven theistic arguments, and the argument I made in defense of theism won, and the argument I made against theism lost. So no, I don't think that people only vote down due to athiestic bias :P I'm not denying the fact that (Insert DDO-censored plural word) exist on the site, but spewing your own bias isn't going to counteract everyone elses :P

Are you talking to me or the guy who I responded to?


Plus, don't act like arguments don't get voted down due to theistic bias as well, good sir

No one even mentioned that. What are you saying that you feel like it's ok to be a bastard so long as everyone is acting like a bastard equally?
Tsar of DDO
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6/3/2012 4:19:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 4:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:

So you only lose due to the athiestic agenda? You know, you might want to apply to Fox News, I'm sure they'd love you over there :P

I think I've voted up two out of the last seven theistic arguments, and the argument I made in defense of theism won, and the argument I made against theism lost. So no, I don't think that people only vote down due to athiestic bias :P I'm not denying the fact that (Insert DDO-censored plural word) exist on the site, but spewing your own bias isn't going to counteract everyone elses :P

Are you talking to me or the guy who I responded to?


Plus, don't act like arguments don't get voted down due to theistic bias as well, good sir
No one even mentioned that. What are you saying that you feel like it's ok to be a bastard so long as everyone is acting like a bastard equally?

"Are you talking to me or the guy who I responded to?"
Sorry, I thought I deleted everything the person above you said, but it looks like I missed that part :\. I was adressing you.

"No one even mentioned that. What are you saying that you feel like it's ok to be a bastard so long as everyone is acting like a bastard equally?"
I'm aware that nobody mentioned that, I proposed it on my own. You also either misunderstand or scew your own understanding to mislead others, but the point I was getting at is " And it probably is too the case that some have case ballots against you because they are atheists and voted against you for no other reason then because they are atheists." is pretty silly as you're singling out one side of the argument for something that both sides do. Once again, consider Fox News, you have potential there.
My legend begins in the 12th century
YYW
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6/3/2012 4:29:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 4:19:06 PM, TheOrator wrote:
At 6/3/2012 4:06:07 PM, YYW wrote:

So you only lose due to the athiestic agenda? You know, you might want to apply to Fox News, I'm sure they'd love you over there :P

I think I've voted up two out of the last seven theistic arguments, and the argument I made in defense of theism won, and the argument I made against theism lost. So no, I don't think that people only vote down due to athiestic bias :P I'm not denying the fact that (Insert DDO-censored plural word) exist on the site, but spewing your own bias isn't going to counteract everyone elses :P

Are you talking to me or the guy who I responded to?


Plus, don't act like arguments don't get voted down due to theistic bias as well, good sir
No one even mentioned that. What are you saying that you feel like it's ok to be a bastard so long as everyone is acting like a bastard equally?

"Are you talking to me or the guy who I responded to?"
Sorry, I thought I deleted everything the person above you said, but it looks like I missed that part :\. I was adressing you.

"No one even mentioned that. What are you saying that you feel like it's ok to be a bastard so long as everyone is acting like a bastard equally?"
I'm aware that nobody mentioned that, I proposed it on my own. You also either misunderstand or scew your own understanding to mislead others, but the point I was getting at is " And it probably is too the case that some have case ballots against you because they are atheists and voted against you for no other reason then because they are atheists." is pretty silly as you're singling out one side of the argument for something that both sides do. Once again, consider Fox News, you have potential there.

lol, calm down dude. Recognize that I wasn't being especially charitable to the post which I originally responded to, and I also wasn't talking about you. I was talking about a member who was here long before you even joined the site.

But yeah, I couldn't work at Fox News. I'm WAY too off the political charts for them. rofl...
Tsar of DDO
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6/3/2012 4:33:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 4:29:11 PM, YYW wrote:

lol, calm down dude. Recognize that I wasn't being especially charitable to the post which I originally responded to, and I also wasn't talking about you. I was talking about a member who was here long before you even joined the site.

But yeah, I couldn't work at Fox News. I'm WAY too off the political charts for them. rofl...

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I came off as angry, but I'm not :) (the smiley confirms it as undeniable proof!). But considering the fact you said that the probably reason he lost a debate was because of atheistic bias accuses all atheists untill you specify, just like accusing all liberals :) (additional smiley face, double the proof!).
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YYW
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6/3/2012 4:42:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/3/2012 4:33:19 PM, TheOrator wrote:
At 6/3/2012 4:29:11 PM, YYW wrote:

lol, calm down dude. Recognize that I wasn't being especially charitable to the post which I originally responded to, and I also wasn't talking about you. I was talking about a member who was here long before you even joined the site.

But yeah, I couldn't work at Fox News. I'm WAY too off the political charts for them. rofl...

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I came off as angry, but I'm not :) (the smiley confirms it as undeniable proof!). But considering the fact you said that the probably reason he lost a debate was because of atheistic bias accuses all atheists untill you specify, just like accusing all liberals :) (additional smiley face, double the proof!).

So... that's not what I said.

Here's what I said:

I'll grant you that a substantial percentage of the RFD's written on any debate are authentically horrific.

Broad statement about all people who judge debates. They are generally stupid.

And it probably is too the case that some have case ballots against you because they are atheists and voted against you for no other reason then because they are atheists.

"Probably" means that it is likely but not necessarily the case. This could happen. I'm not saying that it did, because I couldn't prove it, but I can foresee any judge with a bias allowing that bias to affect the way they cast their ballot. This isn't really all that contentious to propose.

This has, from what I've read of what you have debated, not been something you have avoided.

There are certain users who consistently cast biased votes in all cases. And no, he hasn't avoided it.

However, it is also the case that most of your debates are about things that need not be debated about.

I begin to explain...

God's existence, abortion, etc.

A list of some of the things he perhaps should consider not debating on.

I can even grant you abortion is a semi-legitimate topic (in that people still for some reason feel it necessary to argue about it, despite the fact that they can change nothing about it), but trying to logically prove god's existence is as absurd as it is pretentious.

Qualifying what I said, and contextualizing it...

I'm not trying to discourage you, but rather to convince you to not waste your time on what cannot be done.

And ending on a semi-nice note.

And yeah... if recognizing how people behaved makes me qualified to work at Fox News, then Fox must have changed it's hiring habits lately.
Tsar of DDO