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Enlightenment

Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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6/11/2012 11:24:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 9:28:42 PM, Lasagna wrote:
What is enlightenment to you?
To me, it's the general insight of knowledge and the embrace of intellectualism.

Are you enlightened?
It took me a while, but I'd say so.
turn down for h'what
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/12/2012 10:39:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A pretentious title that hippies, new agers, and other knob heads like to give themselves in order to satisfy their egos or appear more authoritative.

Am I enlightened? Sure, why not?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/12/2012 10:43:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/12/2012 10:39:14 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
A pretentious title that hippies, new agers, and other knob heads like to give themselves in order to satisfy their egos or appear more authoritative.

Am I enlightened? Sure, why not?

At the risk of agreeing with cosmicalfonzo, I'm going to agree with cosmicalfonzo.

I don't think "enlightenment" means much of anything, really. But it is good for inflating egos.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/12/2012 10:46:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 9:28:42 PM, Lasagna wrote:
What is enlightenment to you?

Are you enlightened?

Well, I think that would be a pretty difficult question to answer without sounding self-righteous.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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6/12/2012 10:56:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What Ren said. Everyone thinks of themselves as more "enlightened" than they were a year ago, five years ago. I personally don't believe in it. Enlightenment is basically believing you or others were in the dark and now you have been shown the light lol. I don't think there is a specific set of knowledge we can achieve and truly say "okay, I know everything worth knowing".
yang.
Aayu
Posts: 65
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6/12/2012 11:20:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 9:28:42 PM, Lasagna wrote:
What is enlightenment to you?

I don't know why everyone's being so diplomatic in answering the question.

Enlightenment is 'knowing the truth'.

For me, enlightenment would be the state when I can answer every question I've ever raised in my lifetime. The origin of the universe, the nature of the universe, the purpose of life, everything. The way I see it, every human is struggling to come to terms with their existence, striving to achieve their 'truth'.

Are you enlightened?

At 18? No. Not even remotely.

I wonder if I'd like to be enlightened. I am too much in love with the process of striving to achieve enlightenment, if that makes any sense.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/12/2012 12:00:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/12/2012 10:43:57 AM, Oryus
At the risk of agreeing with cosmicalfonzo, I'm going to agree with cosmicalfonzo.

There is no shame in agreeing with me, I'm right most of the time. Most people just don't like what I say because it's either too blunt or from a vantage point that they haven't seen things from.

DDO always comes around to accepting this silently though. I am always met with initial hostility, and then later on, I find people adopting what I say.

I am secure in what I say, it just so happens that most of the people around here are slow, both bad at comprehension and asking questions when they aren't completely sure what is being communicated. They are young, naive, and lacking a discernment that will hopefully but probably not come with age.

I won't discuss it more in this topic.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/12/2012 1:03:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/12/2012 12:00:34 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 6/12/2012 10:43:57 AM, Oryus
At the risk of agreeing with cosmicalfonzo, I'm going to agree with cosmicalfonzo.


There is no shame in agreeing with me, I'm right most of the time. Most people just don't like what I say because it's either too blunt or from a vantage point that they haven't seen things from.

DDO always comes around to accepting this silently though. I am always met with initial hostility, and then later on, I find people adopting what I say.

I am secure in what I say, it just so happens that most of the people around here are slow, both bad at comprehension and asking questions when they aren't completely sure what is being communicated. They are young, naive, and lacking a discernment that will hopefully but probably not come with age.

I won't discuss it more in this topic.

No worries. I was actually making fun of the stigma with that comment, not you yourself.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/12/2012 1:04:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/12/2012 12:59:14 PM, tulle wrote:
At 6/12/2012 12:00:34 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:

Ridiculously condescending and self-righteous post.

hhaha Twas bitterness.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/12/2012 1:11:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Enlightenment doesn't exist...

But, first of all, it's inherently subjective. It means that you've assumed knowledge or spirituality. To become informed. But, of and about what? Well, that's the thing -- it depends on the context.

In that regard, enlightenment is one of those grand terms that are best discussed panoramically. That is to say, after the truth has been confirmed, you can revisit older perspectives and identify those that were enlightened.

Accordingly, enlightenment as a description ("that person is generally enlightened") assumes some sort of authority that doesn't make sense when you're talking about yourself, unless you picked yourself up from a negative state and brought yourself the same degree of enlightenment as everyone else, or you're comparing yourself to sometime in the past (in which case, you can generally extrapolate that most people are enlightened, as most of us know more today than we did yesterday).
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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6/13/2012 3:46:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As I approach enlightenment, I feel a growing apathy for large-scale social structures/culture and I feel closer to death. Although I've yet to experience any real pain from aging (I'm only in my early 30s) I can see that at some point I am going to have to come to terms with the fact that death will become increasingly imminent and the process of enlightening myself seems to ease the transition away from life. I am impressed at the story of Socrates and how easily he took his own life and I hope that when the time comes that I am enlightened enough to be able to greet death warmly and without fear.
Rob
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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6/13/2012 3:52:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/13/2012 3:46:50 PM, Lasagna wrote:
As I approach enlightenment, I feel a growing apathy for large-scale social structures/culture and I feel closer to death. Although I've yet to experience any real pain from aging (I'm only in my early 30s) I can see that at some point I am going to have to come to terms with the fact that death will become increasingly imminent and the process of enlightening myself seems to ease the transition away from life. I am impressed at the story of Socrates and how easily he took his own life and I hope that when the time comes that I am enlightened enough to be able to greet death warmly and without fear.

But what does enlightenment mean to you?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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6/13/2012 3:58:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
'Self-actualization' and 'enlightenment' carry different meanings for me. I think more people are 'self-actualized' - self-actualized is more like a truly successful human being: A faithful spouse, loving children, a job they love, a strong intellectual and moral outlook. Enlightenment is much more cryptic, and since I just finished the Upanishads I'm thinking of the term in a much more spiritual sense. Enlightenment in this sense entails complete non-attachment to material and physical pleasures, and an utter commitment to a kind of underlying truth about the universe expressed through a figure like Yahweh, Brahmin, God, or some other divine being which is known to be true through some kind of divine revelation.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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6/13/2012 9:45:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Going along with the Biebs, I would say someone like Jesus Christ, Plato, or Ghandi were good examples of "enlightened." They have learned that material possessions are BS, and they have found the strength within themselves to love all people unconditionally and perform in a morally positive manner in all aspects of their lives. This is sort of why I equate enlightenment with death, even though it is a crude analogy... For once you have become enlightened, you no longer fear death, no longer put your life above others, and it seems to me that you can view death as more of a moving on as opposed to an end. Of course, anyone can say this (e.g., Christians and Heaven) but to find that ultimate peace and understanding with your surroundings that allows you to truly perceive death is a rare level of achievement. As I get older, I am hoping I can achieve this perception somehow and I hope that my death is not meaningless or accidental. I would like to grow old but I don't want to die of old age.

I was watching "Waking Life" the other night (which BTW is something you all should watch if you use this site, available on youtube in full) and a quote stuck out to me:

"The [intelligence] gap between, say, Plato or Nietzsche and the average human… is greater than the gap between...[a] chimpanzee and the average human. The realm of the real spirit, the true artist, the saint, the philosopher, is rarely achieved. Why so few? Why is world history and evolution not stories of progress… but rather this endless and futile addition of zeroes? No greater values have developed. Hell, the Greeks three thousand years ago were just as advanced as we are. So what are these barriers that keep people… from reaching anywhere near their real potential? The answer to that can be found in another question, and that's this: Which is the most universal human characteristic - fear or laziness?"

I am not as studied in specific matters as many are. I started my formal education in the humanities, moved to the natural sciences, and then moved to the social sciences. But by getting a well-rounded (and economically non-viable) education, I noticed that I can approach philosophical matters more clearly than others. Scientists can get into depth about detailed scientific matters but are unable to apply them socially. For example, most scientists agree on global warming, but don't have a clue as to how to actually address it politically (smother us with regulations, perhaps?). Social scientists understand culture and human interaction but lack any compass as to what is truly right or wrong... for instance a successful social scientist might know how to attack the policy process but very well might use those abilities for the wrong objective - like perhaps helping those who insist humans are not affecting the environment negatively. Philosophers get into some sticky intellectual details that have almost no practicality at all... but without the philosophical perspective, the social and natural scientist are unable to transcend the petty culturally-pervasive interpretations of their peers and sink into the fold without ever making a real impact (although they can make breakthroughs confined to their fields).

My best guess is that the difference between the enlightened fellow and the one who is not is that they can harness many different disciplines into one worldview. I believe that morality is where the different disciplines intersect. Morality to me is not just "right and wrong" in an ethical sense, but it is a blueprint for deciding what decisions will lead you toward success or failure in life. Jesus, if real, was the greatest man that ever lived. There's no question about that, even if some would disagree (they would never be able to name a more influential or legendary person). Jesus achieved what he did through morality alone - knowing right and wrong and being able to live by those standards perfectly. One need not be incredibly intelligent or learned of scholastic endeavors to achieve enlightenment methinks.
Rob
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/14/2012 5:05:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
enlightenment to me is knowing when someone is full of crap or knowing an idea to solve a problem wont work before wasting precious time and resources on it.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/14/2012 5:09:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Huh, double post after being told my post is not unique. I agree with my self, all is good.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%