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The Mind-Body Schism

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/2/2012 11:46:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
P1: If there is such a thing as the "mind", knowledge exists in it (rather than in the brain)
P2: The mind acts on the brain, the brain does not act on the mind
C1: Events in the brain cannot cause a loss of knowledge
P3: Events in the brain do in fact cause a loss of knowledge
C2: Either the brain must act on the mind, or the mind does not exist, and knowledge exists in the brain
C3: Either the will is determined, or there is no will altogether, and actions are determined
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/3/2012 12:04:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The reason why "all this matter" adds up to consciousness is that we haven't figured out what consciousness is made out of yet. There is a major piece of the puzzle missing. This is why in the robotics thread I was saying that making a sophisticated machine with all the neurons and otherwise other brain functions we have would not produce consciousness. Like Chalmer says, it would be a "mindless automaton." IOWs, the mindless automaton that modern science predicts we should be now is what we would create using sophisticated machinery. The element of consciousness has not been manipulated by us at all up to date, and perhaps one day when we do capture it we can make a rock just as conscious as a human independent of its sophistication.
Rob
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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7/3/2012 1:28:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 11:46:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
P1: If there is such a thing as the "mind", knowledge exists in it (rather than in the brain)
P2: The mind acts on the brain, the brain does not act on the mind

I think P2 would be debated here: I don't know of many people who accept that. Either the mind/soul is resident in the brain, or the mind/soul has a symbiotic relation with the brain, or they are one of the same.

C1: Events in the brain cannot cause a loss of knowledge
P3: Events in the brain do in fact cause a loss of knowledge
C2: Either the brain must act on the mind, or the mind does not exist, and knowledge exists in the brain
C3: Either the will is determined, or there is no will altogether, and actions are determined
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thett3
Posts: 14,334
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7/3/2012 1:35:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 11:46:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
P1: If there is such a thing as the "mind", knowledge exists in it (rather than in the brain)
P2: The mind acts on the brain, the brain does not act on the mind
C1: Events in the brain cannot cause a loss of knowledge
P3: Events in the brain do in fact cause a loss of knowledge
C2: Either the brain must act on the mind, or the mind does not exist, and knowledge exists in the brain
C3: Either the will is determined, or there is no will altogether, and actions are determined
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Nome
Posts: 40
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7/3/2012 5:43:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
How can body see mind in how it can know mind? A mind is there as the manifested cross-hair between the thought which conceives it and the brain it makes up. There is no thought beyond it's own.