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What are you certain of?

thett3
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7/6/2012 12:41:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm certain that there is some kind of existence. Even if my perceptions are all inaccurate and false, the fact that I can make observations at all proves that something exists.

Or does it? 0.o
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
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7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm certain that:

1. the Christian God is false
2. I exist
3. The reality I see is the objective reality
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
socialpinko
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7/6/2012 12:50:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm certain that:

3. The reality I see is the objective reality

This seems promising.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Kinesis
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7/6/2012 12:51:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:41:19 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm certain that there is some kind of existence. Even if my perceptions are all inaccurate and false, the fact that I can make observations at all proves that something exists.

Or does it? 0.o

Nope, because you don't know that your brain isn't faulty. And that's the thing you're using to draw that conclusion.
thett3
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7/6/2012 12:52:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm certain that:

1. the Christian God is false

1. God exists because the Bible says God exists
2. We know the Bible is true because it's the word of God
3. Therefore, God exists

2. I exist
3. The reality I see is the objective reality

Hmmm... how can you know with absolute certainty that it's objective? I'd really like your thoughts on this
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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7/6/2012 12:53:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:51:41 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/6/2012 12:41:19 PM, thett3 wrote:
I'm certain that there is some kind of existence. Even if my perceptions are all inaccurate and false, the fact that I can make observations at all proves that something exists.

Or does it? 0.o

Nope, because you don't know that your brain isn't faulty. And that's the thing you're using to draw that conclusion.

But how can my brain be faulty if it, or something, isnt in existence? "Faulty" has no meaning if there is no existence...

OR the concept of absolute non existence is too much for my, non existent, mind can comprehend?

I love this thread
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Kinesis
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7/6/2012 12:53:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:50:29 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm certain that:

3. The reality I see is the objective reality

This seems promising.

And patently false. When you look at anything, you're looking at a picture invented by your brain for convenience. The picture you get when you look at a table is nothing like the reality.
000ike
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7/6/2012 12:58:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm certain that:

1. the Christian God is false
2. I exist
3. The reality I see is the objective reality

I missed one very important one.

I'm certain that there is nothing I need to know and nothing I need to do outside of my own subjective preferences. And therefore, even if I don't exist, or what I see is false, or there is a non-Christian God out there (b/c I'm sure the Christian one is false), I wouldn't care.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
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7/6/2012 12:58:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
3. The reality I see is the objective reality

As others have responded, I'd like to chime in: How do you know that our reasoning and mental faculties are sufficient in recording a reality or even creating the observance of an "objective reality"?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Kinesis
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7/6/2012 1:00:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:53:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
But how can my brain be faulty if it, or something, isnt in existence? "Faulty" has no meaning if there is no existence...

A question isn't an argument. I don't know how the propositions: 1. My brain is faulty and 2. Nothing exists. could be both true at the same time. But that might just be because my brain is defective in some way.

Compare: it is impossible to imagine a type of existence with six dimensions instead of four. Does that render such an existence impossible?

OR the concept of absolute non existence is too much for my, non existent, mind can comprehend?

Hum. I'm not sure about this. Are we imagining empty space when we think about nothingness, which would still be existence of some form, or can we actually imagine nothing? Is 'nothingness' even a coherent concept? After all, it's hard to make sense of the claim that 'nothing exists' since that would be attributing existence to non-existence, which is obviously contradictory.
000ike
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7/6/2012 1:02:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:58:49 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
3. The reality I see is the objective reality

As others have responded, I'd like to chime in: How do you know that our reasoning and mental faculties are sufficient in recording a reality or even creating the observance of an "objective reality"?

dude,...just because other people quote something and respond to it, doesn't mean you need to do the same just so you feel like you're creating a mob. This is the 3rd time you've done this in the span of 2 or so days. Stop.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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7/6/2012 1:02:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:00:03 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/6/2012 12:53:18 PM, thett3 wrote:
But how can my brain be faulty if it, or something, isnt in existence? "Faulty" has no meaning if there is no existence...

A question isn't an argument. I don't know how the propositions: 1. My brain is faulty and 2. Nothing exists. could be both true at the same time. But that might just be because my brain is defective in some way.

Compare: it is impossible to imagine a type of existence with six dimensions instead of four. Does that render such an existence impossible?

But I mean, if there's nothing in existence, how can my brain by faulty? The word faulty wouldnt even exist, and certainly not the meaning behind it!

OR the concept of absolute non existence is too much for my, non existent, mind can comprehend?

Hum. I'm not sure about this. Are we imagining empty space when we think about nothingness, which would still be existence of some form, or can we actually imagine nothing? Is 'nothingness' even a coherent concept? After all, it's hard to make sense of the claim that 'nothing exists' since that would be attributing existence to non-existence, which is obviously contradictory.

Hmm that's an interesting thought experiment really. Trying to imagine actual, absolute nothingness
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Kinesis
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7/6/2012 1:03:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
To the thread question: I am certain of many things. I am certain that I exist, that the moon orbits the earth, that my sister loves me, that the theory of evolution is correct, that the root of 64 is 8, that anime should be watched in the original Japanese, that I am currently typing on a computer, and so on and on and on.

Whether these various certainties are actually justified is a separate matter. Certainty =/= truth.
000ike
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7/6/2012 1:05:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:03:43 PM, Kinesis wrote:
To the thread question: I am certain of many things. I am certain that I exist, that the moon orbits the earth, that my sister loves me, that the theory of evolution is correct, that the root of 64 is 8, that anime should be watched in the original Japanese

blasphemy! The voices are too annoying
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
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7/6/2012 1:09:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, I am sure that I exist or perhaps something does exist.

If the periphery of my own world is merely an extension of the mind or uncertain given the inability of external world to be accurately recorded in the frame of the mind, or that there is no objective reality but rather subjective, then perhaps something must exist to permit a sense of this reality to occur. ;)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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7/6/2012 1:10:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:02:08 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/6/2012 12:58:49 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
3. The reality I see is the objective reality

As others have responded, I'd like to chime in: How do you know that our reasoning and mental faculties are sufficient in recording a reality or even creating the observance of an "objective reality"?

dude,...just because other people quote something and respond to it, doesn't mean you need to do the same just so you feel like you're creating a mob. This is the 3rd time you've done this in the span of 2 or so days. Stop.

I like that you focused on the very beginning part of the statement without responding to the actual point of my statement/question...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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7/6/2012 1:11:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:09:18 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Well, I am sure that I exist or perhaps something does exist.

If the periphery of my own world is merely an extension of the mind or uncertain given the inability of external world to be accurately recorded in the frame of the mind, or that there is no objective reality but rather subjective, then perhaps something must exist to permit a sense of this reality to occur. ;)

And I am certain of my likes but unfortunately, at this point of time, not what suits me the best, even regards to the present or the near future.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Kinesis
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7/6/2012 1:11:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:02:48 PM, thett3 wrote:
But I mean, if there's nothing in existence, how can my brain by faulty? The word faulty wouldnt even exist, and certainly not the meaning behind it!

I know that seems really, really, really obvious. Like, there isn't anything more obvious than that for X to exist, something must exist. We can't even conceive that that could be false. But, that doesn't mean that it actually is false. Because we might not be minds that are set up to produce true beliefs. We might be set up to find false things really obviously true.
thett3
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7/6/2012 1:13:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:11:26 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/6/2012 1:02:48 PM, thett3 wrote:
But I mean, if there's nothing in existence, how can my brain by faulty? The word faulty wouldnt even exist, and certainly not the meaning behind it!

I know that seems really, really, really obvious. Like, there isn't anything more obvious than that for X to exist, something must exist. We can't even conceive that that could be false. But, that doesn't mean that it actually is false. Because we might not be minds that are set up to produce true beliefs. We might be set up to find false things really obviously true.

Never thought of it that way. Perhaps "existence" as we perceive it doesnt really exist at all. For that matter, what does "exist" even mean? Hmmm
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
GeoLaureate8
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7/6/2012 1:15:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Existence exists.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

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-- Frederic Bastiat
socialpinko
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7/6/2012 1:17:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm certain that:

3. The reality I see is the objective reality

Anyways, I'd like to understand your thought process and how you came to this conclusion hombre.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
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7/6/2012 1:17:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:15:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Existence exists.

Objectivist pig.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Kinesis
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7/6/2012 1:19:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:05:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
blasphemy! The voices are too annoying

But you're losing so much of the original dialogue with American dubs. Japanese idioms, fluency of speech, lip synching and intended tonality all go out the window. You can't really understand what's happening when the original dialogue is steamed over with English, because the languages are so different.
thett3
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7/6/2012 1:19:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:13:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/6/2012 1:11:26 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/6/2012 1:02:48 PM, thett3 wrote:
But I mean, if there's nothing in existence, how can my brain by faulty? The word faulty wouldnt even exist, and certainly not the meaning behind it!

I know that seems really, really, really obvious. Like, there isn't anything more obvious than that for X to exist, something must exist. We can't even conceive that that could be false. But, that doesn't mean that it actually is false. Because we might not be minds that are set up to produce true beliefs. We might be set up to find false things really obviously true.

Never thought of it that way. Perhaps "existence" as we perceive it doesnt really
exist at all. For that matter, what does "exist" even mean? Hmmm

Of course, this begs the question of what is objectively "true" and how truth is decided. Like our perception might be wrong, but that's only compared to another perception
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
000ike
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7/6/2012 1:20:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:17:07 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/6/2012 12:48:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
I'm certain that:

3. The reality I see is the objective reality

Anyways, I'd like to understand your thought process and how you came to this conclusion hombre.

There is nothing I need to know and nothing I need to do beyond what I am capable of knowing, capable of doing, willing to know, and willing to do. Therefore, my certainty of anything is boxed within those parameters.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
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7/6/2012 1:21:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:19:57 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/6/2012 1:13:52 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/6/2012 1:11:26 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/6/2012 1:02:48 PM, thett3 wrote:
But I mean, if there's nothing in existence, how can my brain by faulty? The word faulty wouldnt even exist, and certainly not the meaning behind it!

I know that seems really, really, really obvious. Like, there isn't anything more obvious than that for X to exist, something must exist. We can't even conceive that that could be false. But, that doesn't mean that it actually is false. Because we might not be minds that are set up to produce true beliefs. We might be set up to find false things really obviously true.

Never thought of it that way. Perhaps "existence" as we perceive it doesnt really
exist at all. For that matter, what does "exist" even mean? Hmmm

Of course, this begs the question of what is objectively "true" and how truth is decided. Like our perception might be wrong, but that's only compared to another perception

Is there even an objective truth outside of how we characterize it and if so, what resources at our disposal can be used to access it?????
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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7/6/2012 1:23:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:15:34 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Existence exists.

What defines existence then?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
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7/6/2012 1:23:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/6/2012 1:19:32 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/6/2012 1:05:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
blasphemy! The voices are too annoying

But you're losing so much of the original dialogue with American dubs. Japanese idioms, fluency of speech, lip synching and intended tonality all go out the window. You can't really understand what's happening when the original dialogue is steamed over with English, because the languages are so different.

That's true, but the benefit outweighs those costs. English voices are more familiar and more easily distinguished, whereas all the characters sound the same in Japanese. Reading is a distraction from the action, and at times requires you to pause the video to read the whole thing.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
caveat
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7/6/2012 1:25:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"My mind is faulty in some way." and "Nothing exists." are contradictory statements.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.