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The Teleporter Dilemma

The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/11/2012 4:10:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: This is a common dilemma brought up in an ethics or philosophy of mind class. But I would like to see how DDO answers this.

Now the teleporter on Star Trek works by vaporizing your current body and transporting the Data(the formula of you) to where you are reconstructed with the matter from the area you are arriving at.

If this technology was out and there hasn't been any defects would you use it?

If no why not?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 4:42:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:10:41 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This is a common dilemma brought up in an ethics or philosophy of mind class. But I would like to see how DDO answers this.

Now the teleporter on Star Trek works by vaporizing your current body and transporting the Data(the formula of you) to where you are reconstructed with the matter from the area you are arriving at.

If this technology was out and there hasn't been any defects would you use it?

If no why not?

No, because I think I'd lose me in the process, and a perfect copy will replace me.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 4:44:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:10:41 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This is a common dilemma brought up in an ethics or philosophy of mind class. But I would like to see how DDO answers this.

Now the teleporter on Star Trek works by vaporizing your current body and transporting the Data(the formula of you) to where you are reconstructed with the matter from the area you are arriving at.

If this technology was out and there hasn't been any defects would you use it?

If no why not?
Hell no! I would let others try it first! Now, once I saw that it was OK...
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/11/2012 4:44:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:10:41 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This is a common dilemma brought up in an ethics or philosophy of mind class. But I would like to see how DDO answers this.

Now the teleporter on Star Trek works by vaporizing your current body and transporting the Data(the formula of you) to where you are reconstructed with the matter from the area you are arriving at.

If this technology was out and there hasn't been any defects would you use it?

If no why not?

I don't see why not... All the atoms in my body are periodically replaced over time anyways... In this case it would just be instantaneous rather than gradual... Same process when you get down to essentials.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 4:45:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:42:28 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:41 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This is a common dilemma brought up in an ethics or philosophy of mind class. But I would like to see how DDO answers this.

Now the teleporter on Star Trek works by vaporizing your current body and transporting the Data(the formula of you) to where you are reconstructed with the matter from the area you are arriving at.

If this technology was out and there hasn't been any defects would you use it?

If no why not?


No, because I think I'd lose me in the process, and a perfect copy will replace me.
But that already happens every 7 or so years of your life!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/11/2012 4:46:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Whether or not it causes defects isn't the teleporter's dilemma. That isn't even philosophical.

The question is whether you are actually the same person when you come out the other end.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 4:47:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:46:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Whether or not it causes defects isn't the teleporter's dilemma. That isn't even philosophical.

The question is whether you are actually the same person when you come out the other end.

Yes, and I think I won't be the same person. That's why I won't do it.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 4:48:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:46:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Whether or not it causes defects isn't the teleporter's dilemma. That isn't even philosophical.

The question is whether you are actually the same person when you come out the other end.
So? Are you? Are you even the same person every 7 to 10 years?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/11/2012 4:50:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:48:27 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:46:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Whether or not it causes defects isn't the teleporter's dilemma. That isn't even philosophical.

The question is whether you are actually the same person when you come out the other end.
So? Are you? Are you even the same person every 7 to 10 years?

Having a persisting ego at all doesn't make any actual sense.

You're not the same person each moment to the next.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/11/2012 4:52:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: The Idea is there is no observable defects. To the best of our knowledge it runs just fine!!.

Still no?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/11/2012 4:53:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:52:54 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: The Idea is there is no observable defects. To the best of our knowledge it runs just fine!!.

Still no?

That has nothing to do with philosophy.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 4:53:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:48:27 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:46:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Whether or not it causes defects isn't the teleporter's dilemma. That isn't even philosophical.

The question is whether you are actually the same person when you come out the other end.
So? Are you? Are you even the same person every 7 to 10 years?

Having a persisting ego at all doesn't make any actual sense.

You're not the same person each moment to the next.
And so then what's the difference between that and teleporter? There isn't any!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/11/2012 4:57:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: It has to do with our basic intuitions about mind and body, does merely replacing your physical body Guarentee that you mind will go with it!!

We tend to shrug our shoulder at the thought of it.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/11/2012 4:58:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: except tboone which I was expecting to be more okay with it, If you are okay with the mind=brain.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/11/2012 5:01:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:42:28 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:41 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: This is a common dilemma brought up in an ethics or philosophy of mind class. But I would like to see how DDO answers this.

Now the teleporter on Star Trek works by vaporizing your current body and transporting the Data(the formula of you) to where you are reconstructed with the matter from the area you are arriving at.

If this technology was out and there hasn't been any defects would you use it?

If no why not?


No, because I think I'd lose me in the process, and a perfect copy will replace me.

The Fool: This is what I think.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/11/2012 5:01:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Having a persisting ego at all doesn't make any actual sense.

You're not the same person each moment to the next.

That view has some interesting implications. For example, if the you who exists one year from now is a different person, you have no particular reason to care about what happens to him. No reason to plan ahead for the future or restrain yourself from anything in the now that will harm 'him' in the future. We also couldn't hold anyone responsible, good deeds or bad deeds, for what their past selves did or will do.

It destroys all notions of responsibility, and all notions of planning for the future.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 5:01:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:58:42 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: except tboone which I was expecting to be more okay with it, If you are okay with the mind=brain.
Relax, I'm just waiting for others to step in and make sure it's working properly! No sense in ruining a perfectly good T-Boone!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/11/2012 5:03:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Consider the following addition: what if the teleporter vaporised your body and used the data collected to create two copies of you. If you think you survive the process, which one is you?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/11/2012 5:05:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:01:56 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Having a persisting ego at all doesn't make any actual sense.

You're not the same person each moment to the next.

That view has some interesting implications. For example, if the you who exists one year from now is a different person, you have no particular reason to care about what happens to him. No reason to plan ahead for the future or restrain yourself from anything in the now that will harm 'him' in the future. We also couldn't hold anyone responsible, good deeds or bad deeds, for what their past selves did or will do.

It destroys all notions of responsibility, and all notions of planning for the future.

Correct. It's a part of what I classify into my "anti-philosophy" which I can clearly see has a much more pronounced effect on the way one lives than other philosophies being simple mental masturbation.

It's not the full picture though. I have many other variables like this one which create my odd result.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
SarcasticIndeed
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7/11/2012 5:06:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:03:54 PM, Kinesis wrote:
Consider the following addition: what if the teleporter vaporised your body and used the data collected to create two copies of you. If you think you survive the process, which one is you?

This is why I think I'd lose me. If you can create infinite copies of me, they wouldn't be me, since only I can be myself.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/11/2012 5:07:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:03:54 PM, Kinesis wrote:
Consider the following addition: what if the teleporter vaporised your body and used the data collected to create two copies of you. If you think you survive the process, which one is you?

The Fool: That is the heart of it. Is it Really you at all after. Even thought it has the same memories and knowledge that you had.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 5:07:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:03:54 PM, Kinesis wrote:
Consider the following addition: what if the teleporter vaporised your body and used the data collected to create two copies of you. If you think you survive the process, which one is you?
Hehe! That's how this whole post got started!

The answer is you can't tell! Both copies (and they are both copies) would think that they are the original. And both would be .... actually it would be impossible to tell all 3 apart (ie original and 2 copies.)
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 5:08:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:07:03 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/11/2012 5:03:54 PM, Kinesis wrote:
Consider the following addition: what if the teleporter vaporised your body and used the data collected to create two copies of you. If you think you survive the process, which one is you?

The Fool: That is the heart of it. Is it Really you at all after. Even thought it has the same memories and knowledge that you had.

I'm guessing you're gonna lose your own consciousness, and a new will be created that was the same as the one before. It still won't be the original you.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
Kinesis
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7/11/2012 5:09:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:05:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Correct. It's a part of what I classify into my "anti-philosophy" which I can clearly see has a much more pronounced effect on the way one lives than other philosophies being simple mental masturbation.

It's not the full picture though. I have many other variables like this one which create my odd result.

If you actually lived that way, you probably wouldn't still be alive. If you aren't a morbidly obese drug addict you aren't living your philosophy.
FREEDO
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7/11/2012 5:11:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:09:11 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/11/2012 5:05:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Correct. It's a part of what I classify into my "anti-philosophy" which I can clearly see has a much more pronounced effect on the way one lives than other philosophies being simple mental masturbation.

It's not the full picture though. I have many other variables like this one which create my odd result.

If you actually lived that way, you probably wouldn't still be alive. If you aren't a morbidly obese drug addict you aren't living your philosophy.

Like I said, you're missing a lot of it. Particularly, the more important parts.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
tBoonePickens
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7/11/2012 5:12:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:08:59 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
I'm guessing you're gonna lose your own consciousness, and a new will be created that was the same as the one before.
No more and no less than you loose your consciousness when you sleep...actually less because it would be quicker than sleep.

It still won't be the original you.
Maybe, but your statement cannot be shown to be true.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/11/2012 5:12:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: Now the Moral twist is this..

If your mother was dying on some other planet and the only way to be with here in her last days was to take the teleporter. Would you?? now?/
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 5:13:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:12:10 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Now the Moral twist is this..


If your mother was dying on some other planet and the only way to be with here in her last days was to take the teleporter. Would you?? now?/

I'd have her beamed to me!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 5:14:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:12:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/11/2012 5:08:59 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
I'm guessing you're gonna lose your own consciousness, and a new will be created that was the same as the one before.
No more and no less than you loose your consciousness when you sleep...actually less because it would be quicker than sleep.

It still won't be the original you.
Maybe, but your statement cannot be shown to be true.

It can, those are the different atoms, so it's not the original me.

And I'm not talking about counsciousness, rather, the mind. The process would erase my mind and create new ones.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac