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Thoughts from The Hill p2

The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/8/2012 6:51:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: I came across this thought today. I thought it would be a good brain tickler.

Of Freedom and necessity

The idea is this: Lets say you were left in space with a protection suit where there was nothing around but black space. That is, there would be no more recognizable factors of external determinations.

1. Could we say that you are actually free from external determination?

2. Since all action from this point must come from within Should we say that are of your own, necessary nature? aka of your own nature.

Hmm? What to do, what to DOOOOO!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
YYW
Posts: 36,364
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8/8/2012 7:38:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/8/2012 6:51:51 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: I came across this thought today. I thought it would be a good brain tickler.

Of Freedom and necessity

The idea is this: Lets say you were left in space with a protection suit where there was nothing around but black space. That is, there would be no more recognizable factors of external determinations.

1. Could we say that you are actually free from external determination?

2. Since all action from this point must come from within Should we say that are of your own, necessary nature? aka of your own nature.

Hmm? What to do, what to DOOOOO!

Hmmm... a bit paradoxical. If you are in space then you would not be subject to the law of gravity, ergo there would be nothing to hold your body together. Your body would rapidly expand because there would be no atmospheric pressure to preserve your bodily structure. But, you have a body suit... which would (theoretically) prevent that. The body suit is itself a protection from external determination (sort of) but to be free from any external influence would mean imminent death (or really imminent nonexistence, because in the absence of gravity the unprotected human body would be ripped apart by the vacuum that is -truly- empty space). I suppose in that sense, to be free of external determination (or generalized external influence) is to invite your ceasing to be, because to be truly free from all external influence would mean that you are in some theoretical place devoid of all material, substance or force.
Tsar of DDO
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/8/2012 7:54:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/8/2012 6:51:51 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: I came across this thought today. I thought it would be a good brain tickler.

Of Freedom and necessity

The idea is this: Lets say you were left in space with a protection suit where there was nothing around but black space. That is, there would be no more recognizable factors of external determinations.

1. Could we say that you are actually free from external determination?

2. Since all action from this point must come from within Should we say that are of your own, necessary nature? aka of your own nature.

Hmm? What to do, what to DOOOOO!

It's impossible to escape the influence of external forces. Space itself has gravity, light, heat....and as a matter of fact there will always be particles though few and far between sometimes. There are no perfect vacuums in space. So your thought experiment is defeating of an imaginary causal system, not the one we live in.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
Posts: 36,364
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8/8/2012 8:27:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/8/2012 7:54:41 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/8/2012 6:51:51 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: I came across this thought today. I thought it would be a good brain tickler.

Of Freedom and necessity

The idea is this: Lets say you were left in space with a protection suit where there was nothing around but black space. That is, there would be no more recognizable factors of external determinations.

1. Could we say that you are actually free from external determination?

2. Since all action from this point must come from within Should we say that are of your own, necessary nature? aka of your own nature.

Hmm? What to do, what to DOOOOO!

It's impossible to escape the influence of external forces. Space itself has gravity, light, heat....and as a matter of fact there will always be particles though few and far between sometimes. There are no perfect vacuums in space. So your thought experiment is defeating of an imaginary causal system, not the one we live in.

Perhaps that is the point... absence of external influence is theoretically inconceivable.
Tsar of DDO
Brain_crazy
Posts: 242
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8/8/2012 8:46:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/8/2012 6:51:51 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: I came across this thought today. I thought it would be a good brain tickler.

Of Freedom and necessity

The idea is this: Lets say you were left in space with a protection suit where there was nothing around but black space. That is, there would be no more recognizable factors of external determinations.

1. Could we say that you are actually free from external determination?

2. Since all action from this point must come from within Should we say that are of your own, necessary nature? aka of your own nature.

Hmm? What to do, what to DOOOOO!

It depends on what you consider to be 'free'. As Benjamin Libet first demonstrated you're influenced by unconscious stirrings in which you're completely unaware of. The unconscious brain has been shown to have locked into a decision a whole 7 seconds before the thought has even entered conscious awareness. An environment is still an environment. Now it depends on what age and prior experiences this person has had developmentally, but your scenario doesn't make room for what I would consider true 'free' will. You have will, but it is seemingly never free of your biases. -These causes include internal ones as well-.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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8/10/2012 4:39:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You would start hallucinating. We are constantly bombarded by external stimulation, and in the absence of it our brains react in strange ways.

"You don't need psychedelic drugs to start seeing colors and objects that aren't really there. Just 15 minutes of near-total sensory deprivation can bring on hallucinations in many otherwise sane individuals."
"Sensory deprivation is a naturalistic analogue to drugs like ketamine and cannabis for acting as a psychosis-inducing context"
http://www.wired.com...

Try to conceive of how total sensory deprivation for prolonged periods of time would affect your brain. Would you eventually become accustomed to it? Would you develop multiple mental disorders? Would it kill you?

NOTE: The space suit's oxygen/nitrogen mix would allow for sound to travel to your ears. Let's just assume you're sitting in space somehow.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.