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Existence

Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/20/2012 9:53:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll ask a straightforward question I casually once asked to another DDO member, but in another form, abstracted and removed of the context it was in: Is existence a property, state, or condition?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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10/20/2012 10:20:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/20/2012 9:53:07 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I'll ask a straightforward question I casually once asked to another DDO member, but in another form, abstracted and removed of the context it was in: Is existence a property, state, or condition?

It's an obligation. Once the universe was born, anything and everything was generated from the energies that started it. Everything that was created inside our universe had no choice. There was no other possibility than to find a way to exist because the "forces that be" wouldn't allow anything to not exist.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/20/2012 11:46:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A state. You could say that 'heat doesn't exist in this area' in an area without heat.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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10/20/2012 11:58:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/20/2012 11:46:17 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
A state. You could say that 'heat doesn't exist in this area' in an area without heat.

Is that in response to me or the OP?
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/21/2012 12:15:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/20/2012 11:58:11 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 10/20/2012 11:46:17 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
A state. You could say that 'heat doesn't exist in this area' in an area without heat.

Is that in response to me or the OP?

To the OP.
To respond to your blurb, how do you know? If I see ten black swans in my life but no white ones, can I say that white swans do not exist without a doubt?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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10/21/2012 12:27:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/21/2012 12:15:58 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 10/20/2012 11:58:11 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 10/20/2012 11:46:17 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
A state. You could say that 'heat doesn't exist in this area' in an area without heat.

Is that in response to me or the OP?

To the OP.
To respond to your blurb, how do you know? If I see ten black swans in my life but no white ones, can I say that white swans do not exist without a doubt?

No, but you could assume your color blind. Did you ask anyone else what color swans they see?
If we all see different color swans, does that make us all correct or all wrong?

Either way, wouldn't it be more logical to find a tolerable agreement that suits everyones individuality rather than everyone as a whole?

I'd also like to add, according to my understandings of the laws of science, nothing had a choice after the bubble popped during or after the expansion. It wasn't until life within the universe existed that free will came about.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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10/21/2012 12:32:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Existence is an illusion.
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pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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10/21/2012 12:42:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/21/2012 12:32:04 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Existence is an illusion.

I don't think existence is the illusion. I think physicality is.
ObiWan
Posts: 732
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10/21/2012 4:41:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/21/2012 12:32:04 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Existence is an illusion.

cogito ergo sum?
These are not the droids you're looking for.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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10/21/2012 5:06:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/21/2012 4:41:55 AM, ObiWan wrote:
At 10/21/2012 12:32:04 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Existence is an illusion.

cogito ergo sum?

What if I said I think therefore I am not?
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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10/21/2012 5:46:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/21/2012 5:06:08 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 10/21/2012 4:41:55 AM, ObiWan wrote:
At 10/21/2012 12:32:04 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Existence is an illusion.

cogito ergo sum?

What if I said I think therefore I am not?

You wouldn't be making sense.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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10/21/2012 5:52:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/20/2012 9:53:07 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I'll ask a straightforward question I casually once asked to another DDO member, but in another form, abstracted and removed of the context it was in: Is existence a property, state, or condition?

Properties instantiate, so based on the way it is used by philosophers, I think it is a property.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/22/2012 12:56:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/20/2012 9:53:07 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I'll ask a straightforward question I casually once asked to another DDO member, but in another form, abstracted and removed of the context it was in: Is existence a property, state, or condition?

I think we'll have to figure out how we (this universe) got here first to properly answer that question. Than we would have to define what we would consider existence to be. To consider existence a property or condition would mean that existence is a property of something non-existent or a condition of something non-existent. Both hard to wrap your mind around.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/22/2012 11:26:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I will have to ask that you define existence without consideration of its initiation or gestation, and more from both abstract and concrete contemplations of what it means/is....gentlemen. :)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/23/2012 1:10:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 11:26:08 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I will have to ask that you define existence without consideration of its initiation or gestation, and more from both abstract and concrete contemplations of what it means/is....gentlemen. :)

How could something exist without an initiation. You'd have to consider it when trying to define existence. But in that case I don't see why existence would be considered all three. Especially when defining the very fabric of reality. You literally trying to define everything as 1 of 3 things. For anything to be considered they first have to exist. Then they can be considered properties, states or conditions.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/23/2012 1:14:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/23/2012 1:10:17 AM, Df0512 wrote:
At 10/22/2012 11:26:08 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I will have to ask that you define existence without consideration of its initiation or gestation, and more from both abstract and concrete contemplations of what it means/is....gentlemen. :)

But in that case I don't see why existence wouldn't be considered all three.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/23/2012 7:42:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/23/2012 1:10:17 AM, Df0512 wrote:
At 10/22/2012 11:26:08 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I will have to ask that you define existence without consideration of its initiation or gestation, and more from both abstract and concrete contemplations of what it means/is....gentlemen. :)

How could something exist without an initiation. You'd have to consider it when trying to define existence. But in that case I don't see why existence would be considered all three.
For the record, this thread began with an inquiry, not a proposition or argument.
Especially when defining the very fabric of reality. You literally trying to define everything as 1 of 3 things.
To be fair, no one here is constrained to simply responding that it is one of the three I mentioned. And I hope I haven't restricted the conversation to such parameters, which is a move that would stifle the discourse in my view.
For anything to be considered they first have to exist.
Unfortunately, I do not know what you mean when you say "they first have to exist." Please clarify.
Then they can be considered properties, states or conditions.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/23/2012 10:45:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/23/2012 7:42:03 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/23/2012 1:10:17 AM, Df0512 wrote:
At 10/22/2012 11:26:08 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
I will have to ask that you define existence without consideration of its initiation or gestation, and more from both abstract and concrete contemplations of what it means/is....gentlemen. :)

How could something exist without an initiation. You'd have to consider it when trying to define existence. But in that case I don't see why existence would be considered all three.
For the record, this thread began with an inquiry, not a proposition or argument.
Especially when defining the very fabric of reality. You literally trying to define everything as 1 of 3 things.
To be fair, no one here is constrained to simply responding that it is one of the three I mentioned. And I hope I haven't restricted the conversation to such parameters, which is a move that would stifle the discourse in my view.
For anything to be considered they first have to exist.
Unfortunately, I do not know what you mean when you say "they first have to exist." Please clarify.
Then they can be considered properties, states or conditions.

Sorry, me not so great with words lol. And sorry if you weren't looking for a argument. I answered the question the best way I saw fit. I kinda just assumed every one here was ready for a good debate.

Anyway what I mean is that existence itself wouldn't be considered a property or condition because that would make existence a property of something that does not exist. Same with it being a condition. My point whole is that we can only define existence as how we know it today. Yet, we do not truly understand existence itself. We can only define it according to our own laws of physics, which we also don't understand. I just think we have to many questions to answer before it can properly be defined.