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A thought on thoughts...

Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?
DanielChristopherBlowes
Posts: 1,066
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10/22/2012 2:02:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM, Df0512 wrote:
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?

The world says that we think with our minds.. But how then can we observe thoughts?

The Bible teaches that our thoughts emanate from our hearts, our centres.. Our mind observes and judges those thoughts..

We Christians have the 'mind of Christ' so we can at last have a true judgment of our hearts; they are evil and endlessly self deceiving.

Without Jesus our thoughts are like rats in a maze..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/22/2012 6:02:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 2:02:09 PM, DanielChristopherBlowes wrote:
At 10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM, Df0512 wrote:
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?

The world says that we think with our minds.. But how then can we observe thoughts?

The Bible teaches that our thoughts emanate from our hearts, our centres.. Our mind observes and judges those thoughts..

We Christians have the 'mind of Christ' so we can at last have a true judgment of our hearts; they are evil and endlessly self deceiving.

Without Jesus our thoughts are like rats in a maze..

So you are saying that what I am seeing when I think is coming from my heart? Interesting. I don't agree but it would answer the question if I were christian. The bible teaches a lot of things none of which can be proven. I was hoping Id get more of a scientific answer.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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10/22/2012 7:43:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM, Df0512 wrote:
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?

Obviously, you're doing it all wrong, when you close your eyes you are supposed to see Salma Hayek, try again, and concentrate this time.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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10/22/2012 7:50:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Real and unreal are abstract concepts.
When we call something "real", what we need to ask ourselves is the practical utility of doing so.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

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jat93
Posts: 1,440
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10/22/2012 11:19:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It seems to me that you're asking more about the nature of imagination than thoughts, no? Imagination as in feeling like you're perceiving something with your senses that isn't actually there and is just a construct of your mind, usually frommemories of things you've experienced with the senses in the past.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/23/2012 1:21:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 11:19:52 PM, jat93 wrote:
It seems to me that you're asking more about the nature of imagination than thoughts, no? Imagination as in feeling like you're perceiving something with your senses that isn't actually there and is just a construct of your mind, usually frommemories of things you've experienced with the senses in the past.

I get what your saying but I understand what cause thoughts but your right, I'm considering the fact that we do perceive thoughts with our senses. Or at least with what seems to be our senses. How it got there isn't the point, I'm asking could a thought exist, in some way shape or form, because we can see it in our minds? Imagination or not I can see Salma Hayek...and her two friends.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/23/2012 1:30:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 7:50:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Real and unreal are abstract concepts.
When we call something "real", what we need to ask ourselves is the practical utility of doing so.

Well this is what I am trying to help figure out. Considering real and unreal at this point would be premature because things, as we know them, either are real or not. And considering things to be real just seems to be useful in the most obvious of ways, and finding that line between the two, if one exists, adds value.
Brain_crazy
Posts: 242
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10/24/2012 4:17:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM, Df0512 wrote:
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?

Interesting question. I'm not exactly sure I know what you mean, but certainly thoughts have a physical basis; i.e. electrical impulses. Mental images are often described as being within the so-called "mind's eye". Visualizing tends to help us better remember, as more associative hooks are often attached. At the same time you could in some sense say that visualizing batman is like hallucinating, as the underlining brain processes would be very similar. As for a deeper philosophical argument right now I'll leave that to the armchair philosophers out there. :)
Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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10/24/2012 10:11:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 1:03:01 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Descarte for the win.
Disciple of Koopin
Right Hand Chicken of the Grand Poobah DDO Vice President FREEDO

Servant of Kfc
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,732
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10/24/2012 11:37:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM, Df0512 wrote:
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?

Let's figure out if reality is real first and then we'll tackle thoughts...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/28/2012 10:27:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 11:37:47 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM, Df0512 wrote:
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?

Let's figure out if reality is real first and then we'll tackle thoughts...

I think we can assume it is. In the world you and I live in we haven't discovered that reality isn't real and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we won't discover it isn't. But lets assume it is.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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10/28/2012 10:32:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 4:17:00 PM, Brain_crazy wrote:
At 10/22/2012 12:43:37 AM, Df0512 wrote:
Are thoughts real? What I mean is do the things we see in our minds exist. Right now when I close my eyes, I can see Batman. What is that image? Is that image (not necessarily Batman) real? I can literally see Batman. I can even hear him. Not with my eyes or ears of course but I am assuming in my mind. Or what seems to be my mind. If I can see and hear it does that thought exist some how or is it like an hallucination? Also, where is it that I am actually seeing these images? What do you think?

Interesting question. I'm not exactly sure I know what you mean, but certainly thoughts have a physical basis; i.e. electrical impulses. Mental images are often described as being within the so-called "mind's eye". Visualizing tends to help us better remember, as more associative hooks are often attached. At the same time you could in some sense say that visualizing batman is like hallucinating, as the underlining brain processes would be very similar. As for a deeper philosophical argument right now I'll leave that to the armchair philosophers out there. :)

You understood the question perfectly and bring up a valid point as well. Thoughts could be a sort of hallucination. But thoughts seem to be more. Brain activity is a real physical thing and changes with your thoughts. But then I suppose hallucinations do as well. It is just that, the fact that I can see these things at my will using these senses astounds me. Even more so that they seem to be located in my mind.