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If a rational individual wants

keepinitreal
Posts: 58
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11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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11/12/2012 5:20:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM, keepinitreal wrote:
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?

Then he's not a rational person.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/12/2012 6:40:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 5:20:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM, keepinitreal wrote:
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?

Then he's not a rational person.

Lol wut? Rationality is dictated by desire for autonomy? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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11/12/2012 8:18:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 6:40:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:20:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM, keepinitreal wrote:
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?

Then he's not a rational person.

Lol wut? Rationality is dictated by desire for autonomy? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

It depends what you mean by autonomy. Rational individuals by their very nature follow reason, by becoming a slave you're subjecting yourself to the whims of another individual as opposed to reason. I can't think of any reason why a rational individual would want to become a slave for the sake of being a slave. I suppose if it's for a broader purpose for a limited amount of time it's excusable, but the way described in the OP doesn't make sense whatsoever. No free, rational individual would choose to become someone's slave.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/12/2012 8:23:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 8:18:38 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 6:40:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:20:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM, keepinitreal wrote:
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?

Then he's not a rational person.

Lol wut? Rationality is dictated by desire for autonomy? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

It depends what you mean by autonomy. Rational individuals by their very nature follow reason, by becoming a slave you're subjecting yourself to the whims of another individual as opposed to reason. I can't think of any reason why a rational individual would want to become a slave for the sake of being a slave. I suppose if it's for a broader purpose for a limited amount of time it's excusable, but the way described in the OP doesn't make sense whatsoever. No free, rational individual would choose to become someone's slave.

Rational just means that you evaluate the benefit and cost of an action before proceeding to either embark upon it or disregard it. The cost and benefit of each action is purely subjective and based on an individual's preferences. I'm sure that most people would not want to be enslaved and lose their autonomy, but there are probably some that do. Some engage in S&M while others are sexually attracted to pain. Surely, these people aren't "rational" from society's POV, but they evaluate the benefits and costs of their own actions dependent on their individual desires.

If somebody is sexually, physically, emotionally, and psychologically attracted to being enslaved, does that make them not "rational?"
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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11/12/2012 8:33:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 8:23:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 8:18:38 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 6:40:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:20:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM, keepinitreal wrote:
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?

Then he's not a rational person.

Lol wut? Rationality is dictated by desire for autonomy? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

It depends what you mean by autonomy. Rational individuals by their very nature follow reason, by becoming a slave you're subjecting yourself to the whims of another individual as opposed to reason. I can't think of any reason why a rational individual would want to become a slave for the sake of being a slave. I suppose if it's for a broader purpose for a limited amount of time it's excusable, but the way described in the OP doesn't make sense whatsoever. No free, rational individual would choose to become someone's slave.

Rational just means that you evaluate the benefit and cost of an action before proceeding to either embark upon it or disregard it. The cost and benefit of each action is purely subjective and based on an individual's preferences. I'm sure that most people would not want to be enslaved and lose their autonomy, but there are probably some that do. Some engage in S&M while others are sexually attracted to pain. Surely, these people aren't "rational" from society's POV, but they evaluate the benefits and costs of their own actions dependent on their individual desires.

If somebody is sexually, physically, emotionally, and psychologically attracted to being enslaved, does that make them not "rational?"

I don't feel like engaging you and being drawn into a mess of subjectivity. If we're just arguing different concepts then let sleeping dogs lie, I don't feel like going on for pages if we're just going to be talking past each other.

Yes, if you are psychologically attracted to the idea of being someone's slave and obeying they're every whim that's pretty much the epitome of irrationality.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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11/12/2012 8:38:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 8:33:30 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 8:23:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 8:18:38 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 6:40:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:20:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM, keepinitreal wrote:
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?

Then he's not a rational person.

Lol wut? Rationality is dictated by desire for autonomy? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

It depends what you mean by autonomy. Rational individuals by their very nature follow reason, by becoming a slave you're subjecting yourself to the whims of another individual as opposed to reason. I can't think of any reason why a rational individual would want to become a slave for the sake of being a slave. I suppose if it's for a broader purpose for a limited amount of time it's excusable, but the way described in the OP doesn't make sense whatsoever. No free, rational individual would choose to become someone's slave.

Rational just means that you evaluate the benefit and cost of an action before proceeding to either embark upon it or disregard it. The cost and benefit of each action is purely subjective and based on an individual's preferences. I'm sure that most people would not want to be enslaved and lose their autonomy, but there are probably some that do. Some engage in S&M while others are sexually attracted to pain. Surely, these people aren't "rational" from society's POV, but they evaluate the benefits and costs of their own actions dependent on their individual desires.

If somebody is sexually, physically, emotionally, and psychologically attracted to being enslaved, does that make them not "rational?"

I don't feel like engaging you and being drawn into a mess of subjectivity. If we're just arguing different concepts then let sleeping dogs lie, I don't feel like going on for pages if we're just going to be talking past each other.

Yes, if you are psychologically attracted to the idea of being someone's slave and obeying they're every whim that's pretty much the epitome of irrationality.

Lol k. Objective morals are a big no-no, but objective rationality? I'm all in.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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11/12/2012 8:39:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 8:38:16 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 8:33:30 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 8:23:09 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 8:18:38 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 6:40:39 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:20:14 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 11/12/2012 5:07:08 PM, keepinitreal wrote:
to be a slave to another individual out of free will, and without any coercion, that s/he should be allowed to do so and that it is not immoral to do so.

Agree or Disagree?

Then he's not a rational person.

Lol wut? Rationality is dictated by desire for autonomy? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.

It depends what you mean by autonomy. Rational individuals by their very nature follow reason, by becoming a slave you're subjecting yourself to the whims of another individual as opposed to reason. I can't think of any reason why a rational individual would want to become a slave for the sake of being a slave. I suppose if it's for a broader purpose for a limited amount of time it's excusable, but the way described in the OP doesn't make sense whatsoever. No free, rational individual would choose to become someone's slave.

Rational just means that you evaluate the benefit and cost of an action before proceeding to either embark upon it or disregard it. The cost and benefit of each action is purely subjective and based on an individual's preferences. I'm sure that most people would not want to be enslaved and lose their autonomy, but there are probably some that do. Some engage in S&M while others are sexually attracted to pain. Surely, these people aren't "rational" from society's POV, but they evaluate the benefits and costs of their own actions dependent on their individual desires.

If somebody is sexually, physically, emotionally, and psychologically attracted to being enslaved, does that make them not "rational?"

I don't feel like engaging you and being drawn into a mess of subjectivity. If we're just arguing different concepts then let sleeping dogs lie, I don't feel like going on for pages if we're just going to be talking past each other.

Yes, if you are psychologically attracted to the idea of being someone's slave and obeying they're every whim that's pretty much the epitome of irrationality.

Lol k. Objective morals are a big no-no, but objective rationality? I'm all in.

Oh, I believe in objective morality. Just keep in mind that if you're going to deconstruct rationality you've basically got nothing left to build up from.