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Plato

jedipengiun
Posts: 169
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11/23/2012 3:25:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have an essay to do on plato, and i've been putting it off for a few week. You see. Here's the thing, I cannot stand plato, at all. I really don't like him. Can anyone tell me a way that I can read him (Phaedo) without topping myself? How do you philosophy you don't like?
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: At 6/22/2012 1:46:11 PM, Kinesis wrote:
: Also, as an Englishman I'm obligated to be prejudiced against gingers and the French.

: At 8/27/2012 10:00:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
: Every self-respecting philosopher needs to smoke a pipe.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/23/2012 5:14:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't like him much either but some of his ontological dualism is interesting. What's the paper on? Just his philosophy?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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11/23/2012 5:17:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't agree with most of what he wrote but I really liked reading the dialogues. He was a literary genius brosky. Doesn't mean anything he said was coherent.
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: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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jedipengiun
Posts: 169
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11/23/2012 6:55:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 5:17:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I don't agree with most of what he wrote but I really liked reading the dialogues. He was a literary genius brosky. Doesn't mean anything he said was coherent.

I guess that's how i'm going to try and read it then :)

At 11/23/2012 5:14:11 PM, phantom wrote:
I don't like him much either but some of his ontological dualism is interesting. What's the paper on? Just his philosophy?

Either why the body is a hindrance on the soul, or the best analysis of his/socrates argument from recollection, there are more but I'm most likely going to write it on either of these.
Things that make me happy!

: At 6/22/2012 1:46:11 PM, Kinesis wrote:
: Also, as an Englishman I'm obligated to be prejudiced against gingers and the French.

: At 8/27/2012 10:00:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
: Every self-respecting philosopher needs to smoke a pipe.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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11/23/2012 7:47:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 5:14:11 PM, phantom wrote:
I don't like him much either but some of his ontological dualism is interesting. What's the paper on? Just his philosophy?

<(XD)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/23/2012 8:37:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 7:47:17 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 11/23/2012 5:14:11 PM, phantom wrote:
I don't like him much either but some of his ontological dualism is interesting. What's the paper on? Just his philosophy?

<(XD)

I did say just some.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,732
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11/25/2012 1:33:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you have to do the Phaedo? I'm assuming it is the dialectic style that is turning you off and the Apology is more of a speech than a dialogue.

I personally think Plato is the best. He settled issues 2500 years ago that still plague us today, mostly because we ignore his reasoning.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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11/25/2012 3:56:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 5:14:11 PM, phantom wrote:
I don't like him much either but some of his ontological dualism is interesting. What's the paper on? Just his philosophy?

The Fool: Blasphemous! that is what happens when you learn philosophy backwards.

Your Lens Are all dirty, full of opinions of others, and modern conceptions which did not exist then. But those are now the shades of you Pupils, Which blind you from the seeing the things how they truly are.

Conceptions like Ontology, epistemology or all such types would be completely foreign to them.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/25/2012 5:15:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 3:56:43 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 11/23/2012 5:14:11 PM, phantom wrote:
I don't like him much either but some of his ontological dualism is interesting. What's the paper on? Just his philosophy?

The Fool: Blasphemous! that is what happens when you learn philosophy backwards.

Your Lens Are all dirty, full of opinions of others, and modern conceptions which did not exist then. But those are now the shades of you Pupils, Which blind you from the seeing the things how they truly are.

Conceptions like Ontology, epistemology or all such types would be completely foreign to them.

Why do you hate me recently?

(And I've heard it referred to as ontological dualism. I hardly know much about him except from the little I've read and heard.)
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/25/2012 10:12:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
One could argue quite convincingly that all of Western Philosophy is but a footnote to the issues probed and discussed by Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. That is to say, really, Plato and Aristotle, because the Socrates we know is, functionally, just a mouthpiece for Plato (Socrates didn't write anything; we know him through Plato's writings and some other first hand accounts). When it comes to all three of these men and their works, I do not necessarily agree with their conclusions, but I think that they asked many of the right questions and really got ball rolling. Most of Western progress in the realms of intellect, freedom, technology, society, etc. can be ultimately traced back to one or more of those three men or certainly at least the Greco-Roman culture in which their ideas were formed.

That being said, you might not agree with some of Plato's propositions, but if you really ponder the questions he raised and think about why the answers you disagree with are incorrect in your opinion, you'll definitely learn a lot and think many interesting and worthwhile thoughts along the way. If you're at all interested in the history/progress of Western culture and ideas, you will benefit immensely from a reading and understanding of some of Plato's writings.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,732
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11/29/2012 5:53:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 10:12:01 PM, jat93 wrote:
One could argue quite convincingly that all of Western Philosophy is but a footnote to the issues probed and discussed by Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. That is to say, really, Plato and Aristotle, because the Socrates we know is, functionally, just a mouthpiece for Plato (Socrates didn't write anything; we know him through Plato's writings and some other first hand accounts). When it comes to all three of these men and their works, I do not necessarily agree with their conclusions, but I think that they asked many of the right questions and really got ball rolling. Most of Western progress in the realms of intellect, freedom, technology, society, etc. can be ultimately traced back to one or more of those three men or certainly at least the Greco-Roman culture in which their ideas were formed.

That being said, you might not agree with some of Plato's propositions, but if you really ponder the questions he raised and think about why the answers you disagree with are incorrect in your opinion, you'll definitely learn a lot and think many interesting and worthwhile thoughts along the way. If you're at all interested in the history/progress of Western culture and ideas, you will benefit immensely from a reading and understanding of some of Plato's writings.

Right. His conclusions are actually not that important, which is why I value Plato far above any other philosophers - he focuses on the process, while other philosophers seem to always just make a bunch of assumptions and then draw conclusions based on them. Other philosophers often seem to have an agenda (e.g., proving God exists), while Plato's only agenda is preparing you for critical thinking. Plato is not a philosopher to me, he's something more fundamental.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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11/29/2012 6:00:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What don't you like about Plato? I have to say, an entire shelf of my book case is dedicated to the man.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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11/29/2012 6:07:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Rob1billion - always good hearing a voice of reason around here :) Perfectly stated.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/29/2012 6:31:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/23/2012 5:17:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I don't agree with most of what he wrote but I really liked reading the dialogues. He was a literary genius brosky. Doesn't mean anything he said was coherent.

Isn't that the truth.

I'll tell ya -- if not for the philosophic content, I'd read The Symposium purely for entertainment purposes, and write a reactionary piece for your assignment.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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11/29/2012 7:29:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater