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Could The Holocaust Been Avoided If...

pozessed
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12/9/2012 7:13:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If we had the internet and social discussion boards when Hitler was alive and giving orders, could the Holocaust been avoided?

Could the civil war been averted if we had internet and social discussion at that time?

How would moderation of such discussions affect the outcomes?

What behaviors should be moderated inside such discussions in order to achieve the maximum social potentials?

What are the potentials?
drafterman
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12/9/2012 7:18:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 7:13:01 PM, pozessed wrote:
If we had the internet and social discussion boards when Hitler was alive and giving orders, could the Holocaust been avoided?

No. We can't avoid similar types of genocide today. However, it probably would have been made more widely known earlier on.


Could the civil war been averted if we had internet and social discussion at that time?

I think it would have brought it on sooner, lol.


How would moderation of such discussions affect the outcomes?

None. I mean, when you have representatives literally beating each other on the House floor over slavery, internet moderation isn't going to do much to calm the waters.


What behaviors should be moderated inside such discussions in order to achieve the maximum social potentials?

What are the potentials?

I'm not sure what you mean by social potential.
Ragnar_Rahl
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12/9/2012 7:56:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 7:18:37 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 12/9/2012 7:13:01 PM, pozessed wrote:
If we had the internet and social discussion boards when Hitler was alive and giving orders, could the Holocaust been avoided?

No. We can't avoid similar types of genocide today.
We can't avoid genocide in third world countries. First world countries (like Germany, which would probably have had widespread internet access in the years leading up to Hitler if most first world countries did) might be a different story.

Could the civil war been averted if we had internet and social discussion at that time?

I think it would have brought it on sooner, lol.
We never would have had a Union is my guess. The Articles of Confederation would have ended in a contentious but probably low-blood divorce.
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Wnope
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12/9/2012 10:37:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 7:13:01 PM, pozessed wrote:
If we had the internet and social discussion boards when Hitler was alive and giving orders, could the Holocaust been avoided?

Could the civil war been averted if we had internet and social discussion at that time?

How would moderation of such discussions affect the outcomes?

What behaviors should be moderated inside such discussions in order to achieve the maximum social potentials?

What are the potentials?

The one thing I can think of would be that America would have warmed to entering WWII much earlier if they had direct access to graphic images that early in the war. That doesn't necessarily mean they'd have gone in before Pearl Harbor.
Wnope
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12/9/2012 10:38:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 10:37:23 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 12/9/2012 7:13:01 PM, pozessed wrote:
If we had the internet and social discussion boards when Hitler was alive and giving orders, could the Holocaust been avoided?

Could the civil war been averted if we had internet and social discussion at that time?

How would moderation of such discussions affect the outcomes?

What behaviors should be moderated inside such discussions in order to achieve the maximum social potentials?

What are the potentials?

The one thing I can think of would be that America would have warmed to entering WWII much earlier if they had direct access to graphic images that early in the war. That doesn't necessarily mean they'd have gone in before Pearl Harbor.

Oh, and it would have been MUCH harder to coordinate the holocaust, since the early phases depended on Jews not knowing they were inevitably going to die no matter what they do.
FREEDO
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12/9/2012 10:51:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
We've had plenty of worse things than the holocaust and the civil war since we've gotten the internet.
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fnord
FREEDO
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12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.
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fnord
1Devilsadvocate
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12/10/2012 12:22:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

Can you name more than one that has happened since the internet went into wide use?
(I'm with imnotwhoiam, I can't think of any)
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1Devilsadvocate
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12/10/2012 12:27:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 7:13:01 PM, pozessed wrote:
If we had the Internet and social discussion boards when Hitler was alive and giving orders, could the Holocaust been avoided?

Interesting question.

On the one hand I'd think the answer is certainly yes, the question is not if, but how much, of it could have been prevented.
On the other hand with advanced technology Hitler probably would have caused a lot more destruction in a much shorter amount of time.

I'd like to think it would, time will tell.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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FREEDO
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12/10/2012 12:52:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 12:22:56 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

Can you name more than one that has happened since the internet went into wide use?
(I'm with imnotwhoiam, I can't think of any)

About 10.1 million people are in prison, somewhere in the world, right now.

That's much worse than any genocide.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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12/10/2012 12:56:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 12:52:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:22:56 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

Can you name more than one that has happened since the internet went into wide use?
(I'm with imnotwhoiam, I can't think of any)

About 10.1 million people are in prison, somewhere in the world, right now.

That's much worse than any genocide.

And if we're talking all time, the worst holocaust of all time was probably in China between 1851 and 1864. As many as 100 million people may have died. About 2% of the world's population at the time.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
johnnyboy54
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12/10/2012 12:58:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 12:52:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:22:56 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

Can you name more than one that has happened since the internet went into wide use?
(I'm with imnotwhoiam, I can't think of any)

About 10.1 million people are in prison, somewhere in the world, right now.

That's much worse than any genocide.

What? How many of those people actually deserve to be imprisoned for crimes they have committed?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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12/10/2012 1:01:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 7:13:01 PM, pozessed wrote:
If we had the internet and social discussion boards when Hitler was alive and giving orders, could the Holocaust been avoided?

Doubt it. In the early days Hitler was a symbol of hope and rebirth to a shattered Germany so he still would have come into power and become chancellor. After that the Holocaust still would have happened if we assume the rest of the world's military was at the same level as it was in the past during that time period.

Could the civil war been averted if we had internet and social discussion at that time?

Not at all. Slavery was going to cause a Civil War one way or another, the internet and social discussion would only have delayed or maybe even speed up what was inevitable.

How would moderation of such discussions affect the outcomes?

I dont see how ti could make much of a difference.

What behaviors should be moderated inside such discussions in order to achieve the maximum social potentials? What are the potentials?
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johnnyboy54
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12/10/2012 1:05:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 12:58:23 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:52:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:22:56 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

Can you name more than one that has happened since the internet went into wide use?
(I'm with imnotwhoiam, I can't think of any)

About 10.1 million people are in prison, somewhere in the world, right now.

That's much worse than any genocide.

What? How many of those people actually deserve to be imprisoned for crimes they have committed?

Now if it is that 10.1 million people are falsely imprisoned, I may be more inclined to agree with you.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
FREEDO
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12/10/2012 1:06:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 12:58:23 AM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:52:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:22:56 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

Can you name more than one that has happened since the internet went into wide use?
(I'm with imnotwhoiam, I can't think of any)

About 10.1 million people are in prison, somewhere in the world, right now.

That's much worse than any genocide.

What? How many of those people actually deserve to be imprisoned for crimes they have committed?

The country which locks up the most is the United States, at about 2.3 million people. The majority of them are there for non-violent crimes.

And, regardless of whether they "deserve" it or not, suffering is suffering.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
OberHerr
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12/10/2012 1:06:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 12:56:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:52:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 12:22:56 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

Can you name more than one that has happened since the internet went into wide use?
(I'm with imnotwhoiam, I can't think of any)

About 10.1 million people are in prison, somewhere in the world, right now.

That's much worse than any genocide.

And if we're talking all time, the worst holocaust of all time was probably in China between 1851 and 1864. As many as 100 million people may have died. About 2% of the world's population at the time.

I think one reason people think the Holocaust is the worst is because it was so focused, and brutal. Unless I'm mistaken, most of those that died in China died because lack of food/medicine/basic needs, rather than we're killed. Stil, I know there are worse things, example Soviet
Russia, but that my theory on it.

And, saying 10.1 million people in jail is worse than any genocide is really just an ignorant statement........you have no idea how many of those people SHOULD be there, and it's still only half the number of the Holocaust, let alone other massacres.

Plus, their not actually dead. A vast majority I believe will be released.
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FREEDO
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12/10/2012 1:13:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I find it curious how people think the level to which the people involved "deserve it" has any relevance to how bad it is.

Isn't that the very reasoning that lead to all the genocides in history? That the propagators felt justified in their actions because the other's "deserved it".

Suffering is suffering. People are people.

Causing suffering to those who cause suffering is vengeance and accomplishes nothing practical. Justice means actually reducing suffering in the world.
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fnord
OberHerr
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12/10/2012 1:19:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:13:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I find it curious how people think the level to which the people involved "deserve it" has any relevance to how bad it is.

Isn't that the very reasoning that lead to all the genocides in history? That the propagators felt justified in their actions because the other's "deserved it".

Suffering is suffering. People are people.


Exactly why would should lock the causes of suffering up. I agreed, not all are there for subjeftive good reasons, though according to societies morals, breaking the law is a good reason.

Causing suffering to those who cause suffering is vengeance and accomplishes nothing practical. Justice means actually reducing suffering in the world.

How do you propose we dish out justice then? Just let those that cause suffering go free? That's the basis of society, that if you break the laws society sets in place, you will be punished, no matter how small they may see.

And saying "suffering is suffering" is once again just a pretty ignorant statement. There is a reason for locking people up 99% of the time. Genocides happen because of hate, and need of a scape goat.

All people do not have the same basic rights either.
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FREEDO
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12/10/2012 1:30:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:19:03 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Exactly why would should lock the causes of suffering up. I agreed, not all are there for subjeftive good reasons, though according to societies morals, breaking the law is a good reason.

Causing suffering to those who cause suffering is vengeance and accomplishes nothing practical. Justice means actually reducing suffering in the world.

How do you propose we dish out justice then? Just let those that cause suffering go free? That's the basis of society, that if you break the laws society sets in place, you will be punished, no matter how small they may see.

And saying "suffering is suffering" is once again just a pretty ignorant statement. There is a reason for locking people up 99% of the time. Genocides happen because of hate, and need of a scape goat.

All people do not have the same basic rights either.

In my own experience, violence is a mental disorder. It is induced by both biological and environmental factors.

For the most part, it can be phased out by undoing these factors. It is easily observable that countries with thorough social safety nets are almost clean of any violence. This is because poverty and inequality are huge contributing factors to the disorder. Violent people are, themselves, victims to the world they came into to.

No matter how thoroughly we adapt to those factors, there will always be anomalies though. They would better be handled with intense therapy than with inprisonment.

For non-violent crimes, there would be fiscal punishment like fines.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
OberHerr
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12/10/2012 1:32:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:30:57 AM, FREEDO wrote:

I guess we're gonna have to agreed to disagreed, as this is just an opinion debate at this point.
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FREEDO
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12/10/2012 1:38:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:32:40 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:30:57 AM, FREEDO wrote:

I guess we're gonna have to agreed to disagreed, as this is just an opinion debate at this point.

Well, that's no fun.
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fnord
OberHerr
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12/10/2012 1:41:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:38:45 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:32:40 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:30:57 AM, FREEDO wrote:

I guess we're gonna have to agreed to disagreed, as this is just an opinion debate at this point.

Well, that's no fun.

I hate disagreeing with you though, and it really is just gonna become completely subjective.
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FREEDO
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12/10/2012 1:45:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:41:06 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:38:45 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:32:40 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:30:57 AM, FREEDO wrote:

I guess we're gonna have to agreed to disagreed, as this is just an opinion debate at this point.

Well, that's no fun.

I hate disagreeing with you though, and it really is just gonna become completely subjective.

Disagreements are a fantastic thing. As long as we aren't too emotionally attached to our point of disagreement.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
OberHerr
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12/10/2012 1:49:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:45:56 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:41:06 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:38:45 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:32:40 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:30:57 AM, FREEDO wrote:

I guess we're gonna have to agreed to disagreed, as this is just an opinion debate at this point.

Well, that's no fun.

I hate disagreeing with you though, and it really is just gonna become completely subjective.

Disagreements are a fantastic thing. As long as we aren't too emotionally attached to our point of disagreement.

Correction: I hate arguing with you.

And that's the issue.
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"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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bossyburrito
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12/10/2012 2:22:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 1:30:57 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 1:19:03 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Exactly why would should lock the causes of suffering up. I agreed, not all are there for subjeftive good reasons, though according to societies morals, breaking the law is a good reason.

Causing suffering to those who cause suffering is vengeance and accomplishes nothing practical. Justice means actually reducing suffering in the world.

How do you propose we dish out justice then? Just let those that cause suffering go free? That's the basis of society, that if you break the laws society sets in place, you will be punished, no matter how small they may see.

And saying "suffering is suffering" is once again just a pretty ignorant statement. There is a reason for locking people up 99% of the time. Genocides happen because of hate, and need of a scape goat.

All people do not have the same basic rights either.

In my own experience, violence is a mental disorder. It is induced by both biological and environmental factors.

For the most part, it can be phased out by undoing these factors. It is easily observable that countries with thorough social safety nets are almost clean of any violence. This is because poverty and inequality are huge contributing factors to the disorder. Violent people are, themselves, victims to the world they came into to.

No matter how thoroughly we adapt to those factors, there will always be anomalies though. They would better be handled with intense therapy than with inprisonment.

For non-violent crimes, there would be fiscal punishment like fines.

Death is far worse than any amount of torture.
Let's agree to disagree.
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iamnotwhoiam
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12/10/2012 3:06:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

No it isn't, and 10-11 million dead isn't small, in real or relative terms.

The only thing I can think of that even compares to it in terms of numbers is famine due to The Great Leap Forward. In fact, more dead, at least 18 million, but due to incompetence; they weren't systematically rounded up and clinically disposed, which is the chilling thing about the holocaust.

There's nothing else I can think of with more than 4 million dead.
FREEDO
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12/10/2012 3:08:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:06:39 AM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

No it isn't, and 10-11 million dead isn't small, in real or relative terms.

The only thing I can think of that even compares to it in terms of numbers is famine due to The Great Leap Forward. In fact, more dead, at least 18 million, but due to incompetence; they weren't systematically rounded up and clinically disposed, which is the chilling thing about the holocaust.

There's nothing else I can think of with more than 4 million dead.

The Holocaust isn't estimated at 10-11 million. And I gave you an example of one estimated up to 100 million. There are many more.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
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iamnotwhoiam
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12/10/2012 3:36:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/10/2012 3:08:52 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/10/2012 3:06:39 AM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:49:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/9/2012 11:35:24 PM, iamnotwhoiam wrote:
Can't think of anything worse than the Holocaust...

Your level of education is pretty mediocre then. The particular holocaust which seems to have taken on the name "The Holocaust" was a relatively small one, as far as holocausts go.

No it isn't, and 10-11 million dead isn't small, in real or relative terms.

The only thing I can think of that even compares to it in terms of numbers is famine due to The Great Leap Forward. In fact, more dead, at least 18 million, but due to incompetence; they weren't systematically rounded up and clinically disposed, which is the chilling thing about the holocaust.

There's nothing else I can think of with more than 4 million dead.

The Holocaust isn't estimated at 10-11 million. And I gave you an example of one estimated up to 100 million. There are many more.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It is by some sources. Anyway, thanks for the link.