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PLEASE Help W/ 1 (simple) Free Will Question.

GOD-vs-ITSELF
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12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/19/2012 3:39:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

What's my list of choices?

To think or not to think?

When are you suggesting the thought process begins?
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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12/19/2012 3:58:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 3:39:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

What's my list of choices?

To think or not to think?

When are you suggesting the thought process begins?

I am saying your thought process does "begin". Your first thoughts build on each other which at the base is necessarily arbitrary. This is also true of god itself.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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12/19/2012 4:00:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

That is a bold conclusion. So bold, it does not follow from your premises.
Tsar of DDO
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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12/19/2012 4:04:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 4:00:20 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

That is a bold conclusion. So bold, it does not follow from your premises.

Really? I felt they were relevant in fact I can only understand it this way, this is why I any extra point of view is so greatly appreciated I will wait all week for something stupid.. Lol
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/19/2012 4:26:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 3:58:53 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:39:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

What's my list of choices?

To think or not to think?

When are you suggesting the thought process begins?

I am saying your thought process does "begin". Your first thoughts build on each other which at the base is necessarily arbitrary. This is also true of god itself.

So you are arguing against freewill because Gos exists?
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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12/19/2012 4:34:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.
I believe I refuted all 5.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.
That does not follow.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?
(A) Why do you feel it necessary that your first thought be chosen?
(B) Why do you feel it necessary that you be aware of your first choice?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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12/19/2012 4:52:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 4:26:05 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:58:53 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:39:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

What's my list of choices?

To think or not to think?

When are you suggesting the thought process begins?

I am saying your thought process does "begin". Your first thoughts build on each other which at the base is necessarily arbitrary. This is also true of god itself.

So you are arguing against freewill because Gos exists?

I am saying free will is impossible even or god
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/19/2012 5:04:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 4:52:12 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:26:05 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:58:53 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:39:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

What's my list of choices?

To think or not to think?

When are you suggesting the thought process begins?

I am saying your thought process does "begin". Your first thoughts build on each other which at the base is necessarily arbitrary. This is also true of god itself.

So you are arguing against freewill because Gos exists?

I am saying free will is impossible even or god

How do you know God is not your thoughts and your choice of expression is your free will?
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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12/19/2012 5:06:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 4:34:12 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.
I believe I refuted all 5.

Any extra input would be awesome

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.
That does not follow.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?
(A) Why do you feel it necessary that your first thought be chosen?

I am merely proposing that it is seemingly impossible. If you never chose a first thought how can you have chosen a second or any.
(B) Why do you feel it necessary that you be aware of your first choice?

You cannot choose among all possible thoughts because you would have to have all thoughts prior to the first thought. This is why free will is seemingly impossible. What do you think am I way off base, is this close to a way to think about it?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
Posts: 274
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12/19/2012 5:08:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 5:04:27 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:52:12 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:26:05 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:58:53 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:39:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

What's my list of choices?

To think or not to think?

When are you suggesting the thought process begins?

I am saying your thought process does "begin". Your first thoughts build on each other which at the base is necessarily arbitrary. This is also true of god itself.

So you are arguing against freewill because Gos exists?

I am saying free will is impossible even or god

How do you know God is not your thoughts and your choice of expression is your free will?

Then god thinks he is impossible too.
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/19/2012 5:21:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 5:08:13 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 5:04:27 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:52:12 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:26:05 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:58:53 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 3:39:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

What's my list of choices?

To think or not to think?

When are you suggesting the thought process begins?

I am saying your thought process does "begin". Your first thoughts build on each other which at the base is necessarily arbitrary. This is also true of god itself.

So you are arguing against freewill because Gos exists?

I am saying free will is impossible even or god

How do you know God is not your thoughts and your choice of expression is your free will?

Then god thinks he is impossible too.

1. You avoided my question.

2. If you believe that, then you believe God exists. Even if you are expressing his possible limitations ,you are still acknowledging his existence.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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12/19/2012 5:49:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 5:06:41 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:34:12 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.
I believe I refuted all 5.
Any extra input would be awesome
Just check the "Why God Cannot Exist" post.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.
That does not follow.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?
(A) Why do you feel it necessary that your first thought be chosen?
I am merely proposing that it is seemingly impossible. If you never chose a first thought how can you have chosen a second or any.
That does not follow. If let's say your first thought is not chosen by you (can be random or say chosen by God) why can't your second thought be chosen by you?

(B) Why do you feel it necessary that you be aware of your first choice?
You cannot choose among all possible thoughts because you would have to have all thoughts prior to the first thought.
There's no need to select among all possible thoughts because you only need to know more than one thing in order to choose. So let's say your first 2 thoughts are not "willed" by you, what's stopping all following thought from being "willed"? Nothing at all.

This is why free will is seemingly impossible.
It's only impossible if you defined free will as a contradiction.

What do you think am I way off base, is this close to a way to think about it?
There are plenty of people that believe that free will is not possible; however, they tend to use a better argument than those you presented.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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12/19/2012 5:51:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 5:06:41 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:34:12 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.
I believe I refuted all 5.

Any extra input would be awesome

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.
That does not follow.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?
(A) Why do you feel it necessary that your first thought be chosen?

I am merely proposing that it is seemingly impossible. If you never chose a first thought how can you have chosen a second or any.
(B) Why do you feel it necessary that you be aware of your first choice?

You cannot choose among all possible thoughts because you would have to have all thoughts prior to the first thought. This is why free will is seemingly impossible. What do you think am I way off base, is this close to a way to think about it?

So this would be the "Seems impossible to me" argument against free will?

It's been a subject of philosophoical debate for thousands of years, I sort of doubt the "seems impossible to me" approach is actually going to resolve the issue.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Cometflash
Posts: 126
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12/19/2012 6:58:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

To me, if you have to choose, the will is already not free, since you must pick from the choices you have.

Thoughts don't just pop in your head, thoughts are formed. You don't choose what to think per see, unless you try to do so, and I think even then you probably won't get just what you want, you probably get other things in the mix and not even realize.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/19/2012 7:01:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Another thought.
If I were God and I conjured up this universe as we know it to exist. I assume I would get more satisfaction watching you abuse free will because, personally, I enjoy learning, and observing, and constructing ideals for the obstacles ahead.
If I knew everything life would be boring and dull That is why I would allow you to make your own choices and I would observe and prepare for you all individually.
Without me you would not exist but without you my newest of innovations would not be generated and therefore expressed.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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12/19/2012 9:58:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 7:01:12 PM, pozessed wrote:
Another thought.
If I were God and I conjured up this universe as we know it to exist. I assume I would get more satisfaction watching you abuse free will because, personally, I enjoy learning, and observing, and constructing ideals for the obstacles ahead.
If I knew everything life would be boring and dull That is why I would allow you to make your own choices and I would observe and prepare for you all individually.
Without me you would not exist but without you my newest of innovations would not be generated and therefore expressed.

Some unrealistic views of God here.
iamnotwhoiam
Posts: 171
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12/19/2012 10:06:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 9:58:54 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/19/2012 7:01:12 PM, pozessed wrote:
Another thought.
If I were God and I conjured up this universe as we know it to exist. I assume I would get more satisfaction watching you abuse free will because, personally, I enjoy learning, and observing, and constructing ideals for the obstacles ahead.
If I knew everything life would be boring and dull That is why I would allow you to make your own choices and I would observe and prepare for you all individually.
Without me you would not exist but without you my newest of innovations would not be generated and therefore expressed.

Some unrealistic views of God here.

How does one form a realistic view of what a god thinks?
pozessed
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12/19/2012 11:42:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 9:58:54 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 12/19/2012 7:01:12 PM, pozessed wrote:
Another thought.
If I were God and I conjured up this universe as we know it to exist. I assume I would get more satisfaction watching you abuse free will because, personally, I enjoy learning, and observing, and constructing ideals for the obstacles ahead.
If I knew everything life would be boring and dull That is why I would allow you to make your own choices and I would observe and prepare for you all individually.
Without me you would not exist but without you my newest of innovations would not be generated and therefore expressed.

Some unrealistic views of God here.

Why?
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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12/20/2012 12:06:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 6:23:19 PM, Apeiron wrote:
These have got to be the most desperate attempts to disprove theism.

I see your input as emotional, and reactive.

I do not have to "Disprove" what is yet to be proven. If god has been "Proven", then where's the faith?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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12/20/2012 12:33:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 5:51:43 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 12/19/2012 5:06:41 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 4:34:12 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.
I believe I refuted all 5.

Any extra input would be awesome

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.
That does not follow.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?
(A) Why do you feel it necessary that your first thought be chosen?

I am merely proposing that it is seemingly impossible. If you never chose a first thought how can you have chosen a second or any.
(B) Why do you feel it necessary that you be aware of your first choice?

You cannot choose among all possible thoughts because you would have to have all thoughts prior to the first thought. This is why free will is seemingly impossible. What do you think am I way off base, is this close to a way to think about it?

So this would be the "Seems impossible to me" argument against free will?

It's been a subject of philosophoical debate for thousands of years, I sort of doubt the "seems impossible to me" approach is actually going to resolve the issue.

So this is the "I sort of doubt" argument, for the "seems impossible to me" approach? I think that it is hard to reconcile "philosophically" (choosing) a personality for example?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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12/20/2012 12:44:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 6:58:16 PM, Cometflash wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

To me, if you have to choose, the will is already not free, since you must pick from the choices you have.

Thoughts don't just pop in your head, thoughts are formed. You don't choose what to think per see, unless you try to do so, and I think even then you probably won't get just what you want, you probably get other things in the mix and not even realize.

I feel like I kinda understand, but I feel like even within your own statement I get reminded how yes we do put stuff together but if feel we cannot choose whatever is "new to pop in" as it may be "something new in the mix," but I also feel like to form thoughts they need more than itself and itself is unable to be formed from anything else because it is the first form so to speak. Thanks though I am thinking about your view but maybe as a pattern in a pattern sort of thing, but it brings me back to the fact you cannot choose a first initial long pattern, such as this never-ending reply sorry lol
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
GOD-vs-ITSELF
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12/20/2012 12:59:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 7:01:12 PM, pozessed wrote:
Another thought.
If I were God and I conjured up this universe as we know it to exist. I assume I would get more satisfaction watching you abuse free will because, personally, I enjoy learning, and observing, and constructing ideals for the obstacles ahead.
If I knew everything life would be boring and dull That is why I would allow you to make your own choices and I would observe and prepare for you all individually.

Yeah but I bet your world would rock harder. If someone says they enjoy learning as apposed to knowing it seems like religion is in the rear view mirrow

Without me you would not exist but without you my newest of innovations would not be generated and therefore expressed.

Again Thank you for your fun thoughts, you just play what if, even when you sometime catch flak against other believers and non.

Do you start with god having an innate first motivation with a blank canvas? I mean how necessary is the inspiration?
If You Believe In Free Will, Then Don't Picture A Hippo For One Minute. Starting NOW
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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12/20/2012 11:34:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 12:33:38 AM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
So this is the "I sort of doubt" argument, for the "seems impossible to me" approach? I think that it is hard to reconcile "philosophically" (choosing) a personality for example?

The point is that you haven't presented a coherent argument. All I've seen are a bunch of non sequiturs strung together.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Cometflash
Posts: 126
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12/20/2012 1:04:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 12:44:00 AM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 6:58:16 PM, Cometflash wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

To me, if you have to choose, the will is already not free, since you must pick from the choices you have.

Thoughts don't just pop in your head, thoughts are formed. You don't choose what to think per see, unless you try to do so, and I think even then you probably won't get just what you want, you probably get other things in the mix and not even realize.


I feel like I kinda understand, but I feel like even within your own statement I get reminded how yes we do put stuff together but if feel we cannot choose whatever is "new to pop in" as it may be "something new in the mix," but I also feel like to form thoughts they need more than itself and itself is unable to be formed from anything else because it is the first form so to speak. Thanks though I am thinking about your view but maybe as a pattern in a pattern sort of thing, but it brings me back to the fact you cannot choose a first initial long pattern, such as this never-ending reply sorry lol

Like I said, most of the time (if not always) we don't choose things, we just do, we only choose, or feel we are choosing, when we think of choices, and decide which to pick.
If in our day to day we kept looking at "choices" and then "deciding" on "which to pick", we would be much less productive, and not really be ourselves. We be slaves of choices.

If everything is controlled by choices we do not have free will, since we are forced to pick one. I think we created choices, and so we ourselves destroy our free will... if such exists.

I like to point that everything I say is just based on my own experience and my deductions of how things are. There is a good possibility I'm missing something of which never occur to me, and so my deductions could be very much incorrect, but I like thinking my own way, instead of being dependent of the thoughts of others.
So feel free to guide me in my quest, and point to me things I'm not adding to my equation.
bossyburrito
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12/20/2012 2:00:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 6:58:16 PM, Cometflash wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

To me, if you have to choose, the will is already not free, since you must pick from the choices you have.

Thoughts don't just pop in your head, thoughts are formed. You don't choose what to think per see, unless you try to do so, and I think even then you probably won't get just what you want, you probably get other things in the mix and not even realize.

This.
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"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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12/20/2012 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/20/2012 1:04:49 PM, Cometflash wrote:
At 12/20/2012 12:44:00 AM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
At 12/19/2012 6:58:16 PM, Cometflash wrote:
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

To me, if you have to choose, the will is already not free, since you must pick from the choices you have.

Thoughts don't just pop in your head, thoughts are formed. You don't choose what to think per see, unless you try to do so, and I think even then you probably won't get just what you want, you probably get other things in the mix and not even realize.


I feel like I kinda understand, but I feel like even within your own statement I get reminded how yes we do put stuff together but if feel we cannot choose whatever is "new to pop in" as it may be "something new in the mix," but I also feel like to form thoughts they need more than itself and itself is unable to be formed from anything else because it is the first form so to speak. Thanks though I am thinking about your view but maybe as a pattern in a pattern sort of thing, but it brings me back to the fact you cannot choose a first initial long pattern, such as this never-ending reply sorry lol

Like I said, most of the time (if not always) we don't choose things, we just do, we only choose, or feel we are choosing, when we think of choices, and decide which to pick.
If in our day to day we kept looking at "choices" and then "deciding" on "which to pick", we would be much less productive, and not really be ourselves. We be slaves of choices.

If everything is controlled by choices we do not have free will, since we are forced to pick one. I think we created choices, and so we ourselves destroy our free will... if such exists.

I like to point that everything I say is just based on my own experience and my deductions of how things are. There is a good possibility I'm missing something of which never occur to me, and so my deductions could be very much incorrect, but I like thinking my own way, instead of being dependent of the thoughts of others.
So feel free to guide me in my quest, and point to me things I'm not adding to my equation.
Above, you've gone from free will to no free will to free will again. I'm not sure you even know what you mean.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
StreetLogician
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12/20/2012 4:55:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/18/2012 11:44:40 PM, GOD-vs-ITSELF wrote:
It takes so long to unpack my five arguments with refutations etc. in the post "Why God Cannot Exist" I figured I would try to get help with something specific.

Free Will Cannot Exist Because We Cannot Choose Our First Thought.

If you chose your first thought. How would you know what to choose?

I believe in free will and I am an atheist. Free will is irrelevant to your debate. You are also pursuing the wrong issue. It is not why god cannot exist, but why it is unreasonable to believe in god.