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Instead Of Gun Control

pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/21/2012 2:46:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why not start implementing some type of RFID chip into firearms?

This would increase governments involvement of privacy but still ensure us of our 2nd amendment rights.
Having a tracking device on our guns is an invasion of personal privacy, but the tragedies that guns can cause should always be observed and anticipated for public safety.

I would vote yes to RFID chips implemented into firearms before I voted yes on banning/restricting firearms.

Would that not be a more acceptable approach to these conflicts?

Why or why not?
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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12/21/2012 2:52:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 2:46:33 PM, pozessed wrote:
Why not start implementing some type of RFID chip into firearms?
How would that work?

This would increase governments involvement of privacy but still ensure us of our 2nd amendment rights.
Mighty big infringement but unless you elaborate...

Having a tracking device on our guns is an invasion of personal privacy, but the tragedies that guns can cause should always be observed and anticipated for public safety.
Details, details.

I would vote yes to RFID chips implemented into firearms before I voted yes on banning/restricting firearms.

Would that not be a more acceptable approach to these conflicts?

Why or why not?
Details: where they at?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/21/2012 2:56:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 2:52:01 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 12/21/2012 2:46:33 PM, pozessed wrote:
Why not start implementing some type of RFID chip into firearms?
How would that work?

This would increase governments involvement of privacy but still ensure us of our 2nd amendment rights.
Mighty big infringement but unless you elaborate...

Having a tracking device on our guns is an invasion of personal privacy, but the tragedies that guns can cause should always be observed and anticipated for public safety.
Details, details.

I would vote yes to RFID chips implemented into firearms before I voted yes on banning/restricting firearms.

Would that not be a more acceptable approach to these conflicts?

Why or why not?
Details: where they at?

I don't know the details. I'm mainly curious if something like this would be considered more politically friendly than that of our current alternatives.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/21/2012 3:42:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I assume this is a response to the Sandy Hook fiasco? Let's think this through:

1. The gun was sitting at the mother's house the whole time, so even if these chips were on there, there would be absolutely no way to know any motivations with it.

2. The dude took the gun into his car and went driving- not illegal.

3. He went into the school.

Only at #3 would the police be actually able to recognize that something bad happened and try to respond. Frankly, it would make absolutely no difference.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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12/21/2012 3:49:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 3:42:13 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I assume this is a response to the Sandy Hook fiasco? Let's think this through:

1. The gun was sitting at the mother's house the whole time, so even if these chips were on there, there would be absolutely no way to know any motivations with it.
Right.

2. The dude took the gun into his car and went driving- not illegal.
Right again.

3. He went into the school.
Correct, yet again.

Only at #3 would the police be actually able to recognize that something bad happened and try to respond. Frankly, it would make absolutely no difference.
BINGO! Lordknukle is 100% right in his assessment indeed RFIDs would do absolutely F-ALL in his hypothetical situation. And this is precisely why I asked for details.

The biggest problem was the "genius" mother that thought (A) it's a god idea to get her mentally ill son to be proficient in using an assault riffle and (B) to have said assault riffle and other firearms easily accessible in a house with someone who's mentally ill.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/21/2012 5:13:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How do you answer;

1. People removing the chips?

2. People illegally making guns without the chips?

And how exactly would this be much help anyway?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/21/2012 5:17:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 3:42:13 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I assume this is a response to the Sandy Hook fiasco? Let's think this through:

1. The gun was sitting at the mother's house the whole time, so even if these chips were on there, there would be absolutely no way to know any motivations with it.

2. The dude took the gun into his car and went driving- not illegal.

3. He went into the school.

Only at #3 would the police be actually able to recognize that something bad happened and try to respond. Frankly, it would make absolutely no difference.

The RFID could have informed police a gun was on school premises.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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12/21/2012 5:20:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 5:13:43 PM, phantom wrote:
How do you answer;

1. People removing the chips?

2. People illegally making guns without the chips?

And how exactly would this be much help anyway?

Very valid points.

1. If the chips were removed we would at least have some indication of who had them and when.

2. Why buy them illegally if you can buy them legally with just a minor defect.

It couldn't hurt.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/21/2012 5:30:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 5:20:15 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/21/2012 5:13:43 PM, phantom wrote:
How do you answer;

1. People removing the chips?

2. People illegally making guns without the chips?

And how exactly would this be much help anyway?

Very valid points.

1. If the chips were removed we would at least have some indication of who had them and when.

True, but it still diminishes the whole point a lot.

And how could police be expected to monitor all these chips? Sure, you could say if they neared a school they'd start paying attention but there's a million different places you could commit a public shooting. If someone walked into a mall with their gun, what would/could the police do? It's not like they could prevent it. Otherwise they'd have 99% false alarms because most people who walk around with a gun don't have ill intent.

2. Why buy them illegally if you can buy them legally with just a minor defect.

Isn't it obvious?

It couldn't hurt.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country. Nonregulation of guns in America has been a 200-year-old experiment, and frankly all we've seen is steadily increasing gun violence. The self protection argument is tired. America has not seen real multifaceted gun regulation and now is the time to implement it.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/21/2012 6:10:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 5:17:01 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 12/21/2012 3:42:13 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I assume this is a response to the Sandy Hook fiasco? Let's think this through:

1. The gun was sitting at the mother's house the whole time, so even if these chips were on there, there would be absolutely no way to know any motivations with it.

2. The dude took the gun into his car and went driving- not illegal.

3. He went into the school.

Only at #3 would the police be actually able to recognize that something bad happened and try to respond. Frankly, it would make absolutely no difference.

The RFID could have informed police a gun was on school premises.

Yeah... my point exactly. The time between him entering the school and shooting the children was maybe a few minutes. The police could not have arrived during that small time frame because as soon as he started shooting, they would not be able to enter- for fear of him taking hostages and etc..
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/21/2012 6:11:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM, 000ike wrote:
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country.

Hurr durr.... facts suck

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
rross
Posts: 2,772
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12/21/2012 6:31:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
": At 12/21/2012 6:11:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM, 000ike wrote:
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country.

Hurr durr.... facts suck

http://en.wikipedia.org...;

Actually, he was talking about gun ownership, not the firearm death rate.
EvanK
Posts: 599
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12/21/2012 6:32:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 3:42:13 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I assume this is a response to the Sandy Hook fiasco? Let's think this through:

1. The gun was sitting at the mother's house the whole time, so even if these chips were on there, there would be absolutely no way to know any motivations with it.

2. The dude took the gun into his car and went driving- not illegal.

3. He went into the school.

Only at #3 would the police be actually able to recognize that something bad happened and try to respond. Frankly, it would make absolutely no difference.

^^ What LK said.

What exactly would RFID chips do?
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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12/21/2012 6:40:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why not cain people to within an inch of their lives who would use a gun for any other purpose other than self defence and hunting. Now there's a novel idea that would have definite and measurable results in violent crimes committed with guns. I know it would be cruel to whip someone who killed 20 children in cold blood. We have to have compassion for these violent evil murdering piles of crap. We have to understand why and make an excuse and then blame the law abiding as the excuse is really what matters not the crime. There is no personal responsibility only excuses.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/21/2012 6:59:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 6:11:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM, 000ike wrote:
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country.

Hurr durr.... facts suck

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Dude... can you seriously grow the f*ck up? Your rebuttal doesn't even fully vindicate your position yet you're being so rude. By the link you gave the United States has the highest gun related death rate out of all the first world countries. Moreover, the US has the highest gun related injury rate in the entire world, as per a similar wiki article. http://en.m.wikipedia.org...
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/21/2012 7:23:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 6:59:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/21/2012 6:11:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM, 000ike wrote:
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country.

Hurr durr.... facts suck

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Dude... can you seriously grow the f*ck up? Your rebuttal doesn't even fully vindicate your position yet you're being so rude. By the link you gave the United States has the highest gun related death rate out of all the first world countries.

"And yet we have more gun violence than any other country."

Man the fuck up and stop revising your words.

Moreover, the US has the highest gun related injury rate in the entire world, as per a similar wiki article. http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

K. Three errors:

1. Is/Ought fallacy. Just because US has X, doesn't mean that we should form policy, which is ultimately a form of moral enforcement, based on it. Fact /->/ moral statement (/->/ = doesn't follow to)

2. Can you prove that these crimes are caused by citizens with guns? Mobs and gangs will be able to get guns regardless of laws; you are affecting the citizen's ability to obtain guns. Try again.

3. Your implicit statement is that we should restrict rights. Although objective morality is poo-poo, the constitution is about as close as you can come to objective morality in a society. It doesn't make any sense to eliminate part of it unless for EXTREMELY good reason. One singular case is definitely not a good reason.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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12/21/2012 7:40:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 7:23:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/21/2012 6:59:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/21/2012 6:11:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM, 000ike wrote:
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country.

Hurr durr.... facts suck

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Dude... can you seriously grow the f*ck up? Your rebuttal doesn't even fully vindicate your position yet you're being so rude. By the link you gave the United States has the highest gun related death rate out of all the first world countries.

"And yet we have more gun violence than any other country."

Man the fuck up and stop revising your words.

Moreover, the US has the highest gun related injury rate in the entire world, as per a similar wiki article. http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

K. Three errors:

1. Is/Ought fallacy. Just because US has X, doesn't mean that we should form policy, which is ultimately a form of moral enforcement, based on it. Fact /->/ moral statement (/->/ = doesn't follow to)

2. Can you prove that these crimes are caused by citizens with guns? Mobs and gangs will be able to get guns regardless of laws; you are affecting the citizen's ability to obtain guns. Try again.

3. Your implicit statement is that we should restrict rights. Although objective morality is poo-poo, the constitution is about as close as you can come to objective morality in a society. It doesn't make any sense to eliminate part of it unless for EXTREMELY good reason. One singular case is definitely not a good reason.

One single case? In this country around a hundred thousand people are shot every year and thirty thousand die from gun violence. Maybe you should go back to your deep wiki source and try to buy a clue hurr durr boy.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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12/21/2012 7:52:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 7:40:41 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 12/21/2012 7:23:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/21/2012 6:59:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/21/2012 6:11:58 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM, 000ike wrote:
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country.

Hurr durr.... facts suck

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Dude... can you seriously grow the f*ck up? Your rebuttal doesn't even fully vindicate your position yet you're being so rude. By the link you gave the United States has the highest gun related death rate out of all the first world countries.

"And yet we have more gun violence than any other country."

Man the fuck up and stop revising your words.

Moreover, the US has the highest gun related injury rate in the entire world, as per a similar wiki article. http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

K. Three errors:

1. Is/Ought fallacy. Just because US has X, doesn't mean that we should form policy, which is ultimately a form of moral enforcement, based on it. Fact /->/ moral statement (/->/ = doesn't follow to)

2. Can you prove that these crimes are caused by citizens with guns? Mobs and gangs will be able to get guns regardless of laws; you are affecting the citizen's ability to obtain guns. Try again.

3. Your implicit statement is that we should restrict rights. Although objective morality is poo-poo, the constitution is about as close as you can come to objective morality in a society. It doesn't make any sense to eliminate part of it unless for EXTREMELY good reason. One singular case is definitely not a good reason.

One single case? In this country around a hundred thousand people are shot every year and thirty thousand die from gun violence. Maybe you should go back to your deep wiki source and try to buy a clue hurr durr boy.

How many of them are by regular civilians, instead of gangs killing each other?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,788
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12/22/2012 3:23:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 2:46:33 PM, pozessed wrote:
Why not start implementing some type of RFID chip into firearms?

This would increase governments involvement of privacy but still ensure us of our 2nd amendment rights.
Having a tracking device on our guns is an invasion of personal privacy, but the tragedies that guns can cause should always be observed and anticipated for public safety.

I would vote yes to RFID chips implemented into firearms before I voted yes on banning/restricting firearms.

Would that not be a more acceptable approach to these conflicts?

Why or why not?

The 2nd Amendment secures our right to keep and bear arms to defend ourselves even from our own Government (tyranny).

Can you tell me what sense it makes to register your guns with and to give the ability to track your guns to an government that you may one day have to defend yourselves against?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/22/2012 3:29:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
My idea, instead of gun control, is to promote non lethal weapons. Make tasers free or cheaper and offer to replace any rounds with rubber alternatives of a higher amount.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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12/22/2012 4:41:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/21/2012 5:53:46 PM, 000ike wrote:
This won't solve anything. You know that America constitutes only 5% of the world population yet has 50% of the guns, And yet we have more gun violence than any other country. Nonregulation of guns in America has been a 200-year-old experiment, and frankly all we've seen is steadily increasing gun violence. The self protection argument is tired. America has not seen real multifaceted gun regulation and now is the time to implement it.

And what do you think the effects of gun regulation would be on the type of people who seriously wanted to find some weapon(s) to go and harm/kill a bunch of innocent people? It's called the black market bro. It's the reason why I, a relatively sheltered 19 year old kid with few connections, can easily get ahold of most illegal drugs despite them being illegal. Regulations work for law abiding citizens; would-be mass murderers don't exactly prioritize legality. Prohibition can't defeat the simple principle of supply and demand, unless the population is so heavily regulated and monitored by the government (think Orwell's 1984) that our every move can be detected. Gun regulation, gun prohibition, whatever, it would only be successfully enforced under a totalitarian government.

Of course, when tragedies like this occur, people are inclined to think of a way that can for sure prevent it from happening again, and "regulate da gunz!" is a simple, easy response fit for a slogan that any idiot can regurgitate. Unfortunately, sometimes the answer is that:

a) the problem runs much deeper than something the government can just fix by passing some law and

b) you can't always stop these things. There will always be murders. There will always be car accidents. Sometimes there are unfortunate facts of life in society that we must accept will probably never go away in their entirety (unless you can somehow radically alter the entire multi-faceted U.S. culture). We can and should try to improve them to the best of our ability but it'd only be 100% perfect in a fairy tale utopia. In the real world, there will always be people who are depressed or angry or mentally insane or both, and decide to go kill a person or more than one person. The only way you can change this is by changing the entire culture of the U.S., as propagated by the government, the media, big business, schools, etc. Good luck with that.

And honestly, it's not worth that much effort to alter the U.S. culture just to stop mass shootings - it'd be much more worthwhile and practical to try to do something to change our imperialist foreign policy -- Obama is personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of children, and that's only via drone strikes, not counting official wars. Or maybe we could try and do something about the tens of millions of people who in this country who are literally starving. These are stuff that affect thousands and millions of people. Of course the media is going to sensationalize the deaths of a few dozen (American) children, because it shocks us because they're so innocent and they're children and etc. But there are far worse and more harmful things that deserve our attention that make the amount of people who die from freak incidents like this pail in comparison.
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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12/22/2012 7:19:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is the "ONLY" thing that will deter gun violence.
http://www.liveleak.com...
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%