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Death Like Sleep

ConservativePolitico
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1/14/2013 4:14:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've been thinking, because honestly sometimes the thought of death terrifies me, that I hope death comes like sleep.

No one can say the definitive moment that they fall asleep and you don't even really realize you were asleep until you've woken up.

If death is like sleep, a black oblivion in which you don't even know you're in, then I can handle that.

The thought of everything, life, friends, family, food etc disappearing into an eternal nothing is really quite paralyzing so if it must come I hope it comes like the feeling of falling asleep.
phantom
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1/14/2013 4:18:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Meh, you get over it...Thankfully.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
000ike
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1/14/2013 4:19:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
To my understanding, when you die, so does your sense of self. In a way, you don't exist. So there's nothing to be scared of since you wouldn't even be present to experience the gravity of your loss. I believe death is less so like sleep, and more so like the period before you were born.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
ConservativePolitico
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1/14/2013 4:22:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:19:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
To my understanding, when you die, so does your sense of self. In a way, you don't exist. So there's nothing to be scared of since you wouldn't even be present to experience the gravity of your loss. I believe death is less so like sleep, and more so like the period before you were born.

Still, I like existing.
MouthWash
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1/14/2013 4:34:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Any body who justifies death by saying you won't exist anymore so you won't have to be afraid is an idiot. The thing we're afraid of is ceasing to exist, because we value existing.

If you're worried about it, try cryogenics or something else. Gene therapy doesn't seem so distant you'll die of old age before they have an effective treatment for aging.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
000ike
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1/14/2013 4:39:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:34:03 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Any body who justifies death by saying you won't exist anymore so you won't have to be afraid is an idiot. The thing we're afraid of is ceasing to exist, because we value existing.

I'm curious, MW, how something that doesn't exist can be terrified of its own nonexistence...

To be terrified of not existing, while one exists, is an irrational waste of the period of existence. To be terrified after the fact is not possible.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
MouthWash
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1/14/2013 6:31:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:39:11 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:34:03 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Any body who justifies death by saying you won't exist anymore so you won't have to be afraid is an idiot. The thing we're afraid of is ceasing to exist, because we value existing.

I'm curious, MW, how something that doesn't exist can be terrified of its own nonexistence...

To be terrified of not existing, while one exists, is an irrational waste of the period of existence. To be terrified after the fact is not possible.

I'm curious at how someone could be so utterly and fundamentally stupid that they respond to a completely different point than the one I was making, disregarding the fact that my statement was extremely simple and concise.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Wnope
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1/14/2013 6:38:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:14:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been thinking, because honestly sometimes the thought of death terrifies me, that I hope death comes like sleep.

No one can say the definitive moment that they fall asleep and you don't even really realize you were asleep until you've woken up.

If death is like sleep, a black oblivion in which you don't even know you're in, then I can handle that.

The thought of everything, life, friends, family, food etc disappearing into an eternal nothing is really quite paralyzing so if it must come I hope it comes like the feeling of falling asleep.

I'd say deep sleep is about the closest event humans can have to what death would be like. Other, of course, than Near Death Experiences.
Wnope
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1/14/2013 6:39:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:14:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been thinking, because honestly sometimes the thought of death terrifies me, that I hope death comes like sleep.

No one can say the definitive moment that they fall asleep and you don't even really realize you were asleep until you've woken up.

If death is like sleep, a black oblivion in which you don't even know you're in, then I can handle that.

The thought of everything, life, friends, family, food etc disappearing into an eternal nothing is really quite paralyzing so if it must come I hope it comes like the feeling of falling asleep.

I think that my personal philosophy, which is along your lines, is best summarized by Woody Allen-

"I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens."
Wnope
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1/14/2013 6:42:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:34:03 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Any body who justifies death by saying you won't exist anymore so you won't have to be afraid is an idiot. The thing we're afraid of is ceasing to exist, because we value existing.

If you're worried about it, try cryogenics or something else. Gene therapy doesn't seem so distant you'll die of old age before they have an effective treatment for aging.

You realize you're accusing 99.99999999999% of humans throughout history of being an idiot, right?
tarkovsky
Posts: 212
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1/14/2013 6:45:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 6:39:18 PM, Wnope wrote:

I think that my personal philosophy, which is along your lines, is best summarized by Woody Allen-

"I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens."

Woody Allen. Blegh. I think I just barfed in my mouth a little bit.

Not that I'm mocking your personal philosophy or the quote or anything though. Don't take it that way.
MouthWash
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1/14/2013 6:46:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 6:42:13 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:34:03 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Any body who justifies death by saying you won't exist anymore so you won't have to be afraid is an idiot. The thing we're afraid of is ceasing to exist, because we value existing.

If you're worried about it, try cryogenics or something else. Gene therapy doesn't seem so distant you'll die of old age before they have an effective treatment for aging.

You realize you're accusing 99.99999999999% of humans throughout history of being an idiot, right?

Ad populum, brah.

It's called cognitive dissonance.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
tarkovsky
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1/14/2013 6:53:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 6:42:13 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:34:03 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Any body who justifies death by saying you won't exist anymore so you won't have to be afraid is an idiot. The thing we're afraid of is ceasing to exist, because we value existing.

If you're worried about it, try cryogenics or something else. Gene therapy doesn't seem so distant you'll die of old age before they have an effective treatment for aging.

You realize you're accusing 99.99999999999% of humans throughout history of being an idiot, right?

Wait, I thought he was saying to not be afraid would be idiotic? So he is calling anybody who isn't afraid of dying, for the reason that they won't ever have to experience death, an idiot. I don't know, 99.99999999% seems like a major overestimation. I'd say the majority of people are afraid of dying. I'd say MouthWash is actually calling a small minority of the entire human population idiotic.
ConservativePolitico
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1/14/2013 7:00:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 6:39:18 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:14:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been thinking, because honestly sometimes the thought of death terrifies me, that I hope death comes like sleep.

No one can say the definitive moment that they fall asleep and you don't even really realize you were asleep until you've woken up.

If death is like sleep, a black oblivion in which you don't even know you're in, then I can handle that.

The thought of everything, life, friends, family, food etc disappearing into an eternal nothing is really quite paralyzing so if it must come I hope it comes like the feeling of falling asleep.

I think that my personal philosophy, which is along your lines, is best summarized by Woody Allen-

"I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens."

I like that. Good quote.
Azul145
Posts: 22
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1/14/2013 7:23:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am a strong Christian believer so I believe when you die and you were a good person, you will live in eternal paradise. The only stress I fell from that is not knowing when I will die thus hoping I haven't done anything terrible in the last few days. Although I try to always do what is right and I do a lot of charity so death is not a fear for me like it is for you.
Everything is going according to my plan.
000ike
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1/14/2013 7:27:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 7:23:31 PM, Azul145 wrote:
I am a strong Christian believer so I believe when you die and you were a good person, you will live in eternal paradise. The only stress I fell from that is not knowing when I will die thus hoping I haven't done anything terrible in the last few days. Although I try to always do what is right and I do a lot of charity so death is not a fear for me like it is for you.

You've traded fear of death for fear of God - sounds like a lateral move.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
EvanK
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1/14/2013 7:57:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:14:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been thinking, because honestly sometimes the thought of death terrifies me, that I hope death comes like sleep.

No one can say the definitive moment that they fall asleep and you don't even really realize you were asleep until you've woken up.

If death is like sleep, a black oblivion in which you don't even know you're in, then I can handle that.

The thought of everything, life, friends, family, food etc disappearing into an eternal nothing is really quite paralyzing so if it must come I hope it comes like the feeling of falling asleep.

I'd rather be reincarnated. :P

Maybe the bright light we see, is actually our new self being born! XD
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The_Fool_on_the_hill
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1/14/2013 8:10:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 4:22:23 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:19:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
To my understanding, when you die, so does your sense of self. In a way, you don't exist.

The Fool: How you understand, what death is like?
I mean I don't have my hopes up, I have been really close to death a few times. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anybody, I get vivid memory flashes just thinking about it. They will probably haunt me me forever.

So there's nothing to be scared of since you wouldn't even be present to experience the gravity of your loss.

The Fool: It is the scary's thing Ever.

I believe death is less so like sleep, and more so like the period before you were born.

Still, I like existing.

The Fool: as we get used to it. I hope we do, I am not used to the thought as much as I would like. Anybody have a rational Theory of death?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
000ike
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1/14/2013 8:16:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 8:10:07 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:22:23 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:19:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
To my understanding, when you die, so does your sense of self. In a way, you don't exist.

The Fool: How you understand, what death is like?
I mean I don't have my hopes up, I have been really close to death a few times. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anybody, I get vivid memory flashes just thinking about it. They will probably haunt me me forever.

So there's nothing to be scared of since you wouldn't even be present to experience the gravity of your loss.

The Fool: It is the scary's thing Ever.

Yes I know, the process of dying is painful and scary. However, once you're dead, the pain, fear, and memory of the pain and fear all cease to exist. That's the point I'm getting at.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
thett3
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1/14/2013 8:59:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm actually not that afraid of it, just the reactions of everyone I care about. Obviously I wont be there to see it, but I wish I could keep them from being too distraught about it.

Of course, like a lot of people, I'm a lot more afraid of the manner of death than the concept of it.

Chuang Tzu once said "How do I know that the dead do not wonder why they ever longed for life?" I think that's a good way to look at it.
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Sidewalker
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1/14/2013 9:01:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 6:38:24 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:14:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
I've been thinking, because honestly sometimes the thought of death terrifies me, that I hope death comes like sleep.

No one can say the definitive moment that they fall asleep and you don't even really realize you were asleep until you've woken up.

If death is like sleep, a black oblivion in which you don't even know you're in, then I can handle that.

The thought of everything, life, friends, family, food etc disappearing into an eternal nothing is really quite paralyzing so if it must come I hope it comes like the feeling of falling asleep.

I'd say deep sleep is about the closest event humans can have to what death would be like. Other, of course, than Near Death Experiences.

I've done both and they aren't at all alike.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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1/14/2013 9:01:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 8:16:07 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/14/2013 8:10:07 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:22:23 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:19:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
To my understanding, when you die, so does your sense of self. In a way, you don't exist.

The Fool: How you understand, what death is like?
I mean I don't have my hopes up, I have been really close to death a few times. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anybody, I get vivid memory flashes just thinking about it. They will probably haunt me me forever.

So there's nothing to be scared of since you wouldn't even be present to experience the gravity of your loss.

The Fool: It is the scary's thing Ever.

Yes I know, the process of dying is painful and scary. However, once you're dead, the pain, fear, and memory of the pain and fear all cease to exist. That's the point I'm getting at.

The Fool: But there is no information, we can conceive of nothingness. Remember Nothing I not even blackness. It Nil, I can't even express it to you.

The Fool First draft of everything.
My very rough theory of death right now "off my head", is that our minds and bodies Get mix's into The Absolute Universe. It fuses with other things and things come out of it to become others. I think of it like distinct features slowly breaks down into a indistinguishable solution, where things condense to be become others in an eternally ever living, process.

Remember I don't have words for what I am trying to express. But that is conceptual model to go by.

A quick stab in the Dark. Anybody? Give it a shot. Just straight Creativity of your head. Lets see what we come up with.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
natoast
Posts: 204
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1/14/2013 9:34:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 9:01:47 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 1/14/2013 8:16:07 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/14/2013 8:10:07 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:22:23 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:19:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
To my understanding, when you die, so does your sense of self. In a way, you don't exist.

The Fool: How you understand, what death is like?
I mean I don't have my hopes up, I have been really close to death a few times. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anybody, I get vivid memory flashes just thinking about it. They will probably haunt me me forever.

So there's nothing to be scared of since you wouldn't even be present to experience the gravity of your loss.

The Fool: It is the scary's thing Ever.

Yes I know, the process of dying is painful and scary. However, once you're dead, the pain, fear, and memory of the pain and fear all cease to exist. That's the point I'm getting at.

The Fool: But there is no information, we can conceive of nothingness. Remember Nothing I not even blackness. It Nil, I can't even express it to you.

The Fool First draft of everything.
My very rough theory of death right now "off my head", is that our minds and bodies Get mix's into The Absolute Universe. It fuses with other things and things come out of it to become others. I think of it like distinct features slowly breaks down into a indistinguishable solution, where things condense to be become others in an eternally ever living, process.

Remember I don't have words for what I am trying to express. But that is conceptual model to go by.

A quick stab in the Dark. Anybody? Give it a shot. Just straight Creativity of your head. Lets see what we come up with.

Once we die, it isn't really our end, because it's not as if we cease to have ever existed. We just stop having new experiences. The time we spent alive always will be as it was, and we will always be who we where. It's scary to think that we might lose those experiences, but the consciousness that is you does not lose those experiences in the past, there just isn't any more constantly reforming 'you' anymore. Of course you don't continue to exist after your death, (probably), but death isn't really your end. It's just the point in time where 'you' stops existing, like the edge of your territory. It's not the place that makes it so you never existed. It's borderline nonsense, I know, but death is unfathomable that any rational theory doesn't explain anything in my mind.
phantom
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1/14/2013 9:37:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Personally, death, meaninglessness and lack of purpose used to depress me a lot. Now it doesn't. But it's weird because I have no rational explanation. It just stopped. It's still frightening and definitely at least one of my biggest fears but the degree of how much I worry about it greatly subsided, but I don't even know why. It's like one day I just snapped out of it for some reason. It was weird but I was extremely thankful it happened.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
ConservativePolitico
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1/14/2013 10:05:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 9:37:44 PM, phantom wrote:
Personally, death, meaninglessness and lack of purpose used to depress me a lot. Now it doesn't. But it's weird because I have no rational explanation. It just stopped. It's still frightening and definitely at least one of my biggest fears but the degree of how much I worry about it greatly subsided, but I don't even know why. It's like one day I just snapped out of it for some reason. It was weird but I was extremely thankful it happened.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Sort of.

Sometimes I think about it and I get this overwhelming feeling of loss and fear about the crushing beyond but then there are other days where I think that death will be nice like a long nap or something.

So yes, I've gone back and forth about how I feel on the matter.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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1/14/2013 10:10:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 9:37:44 PM, phantom wrote:
Personally, death, meaninglessness and lack of purpose used to depress me a lot. Now it doesn't. But it's weird because I have no rational explanation. It just stopped. It's still frightening and definitely at least one of my biggest fears but the degree of how much I worry about it greatly subsided, but I don't even know why. It's like one day I just snapped out of it for some reason. It was weird but I was extremely thankful it happened.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

The Fool: I see allot of purpose, Everywhere.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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1/14/2013 10:20:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 9:34:39 PM, natoast wrote:
At 1/14/2013 9:01:47 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 1/14/2013 8:16:07 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 1/14/2013 8:10:07 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:22:23 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/14/2013 4:19:00 PM, 000ike wrote:
To my understanding, when you die, so does your sense of self. In a way, you don't exist.

The Fool: How you understand, what death is like?
I mean I don't have my hopes up, I have been really close to death a few times. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anybody, I get vivid memory flashes just thinking about it. They will probably haunt me me forever.

So there's nothing to be scared of since you wouldn't even be present to experience the gravity of your loss.

The Fool: It is the scary's thing Ever.

Yes I know, the process of dying is painful and scary. However, once you're dead, the pain, fear, and memory of the pain and fear all cease to exist. That's the point I'm getting at.

The Fool: But there is no information, we can conceive of nothingness. Remember Nothing I not even blackness. It Nil, I can't even express it to you.

The Fool First draft of everything.
My very rough theory of death right now "off my head", is that our minds and bodies Get mix's into The Absolute Universe. It fuses with other things and things come out of it to become others. I think of it like distinct features slowly breaks down into a indistinguishable solution, where things condense to be become others in an eternally ever living, process.

Remember I don't have words for what I am trying to express. But that is conceptual model to go by.

A quick stab in the Dark. Anybody? Give it a shot. Just straight Creativity of your head. Lets see what we come up with.

Once we die, it isn't really our end, because it's not as if we cease to have ever existed. We just stop having new experiences. The time we spent alive always will be as it was, and we will always be who we where. It's scary to think that we might lose those experiences, but the consciousness that is you does not lose those experiences in the past, there just isn't any more constantly reforming 'you' anymore. Of course you don't continue to exist after your death, (probably), but death isn't really your end. It's just the point in time where 'you' stops existing, like the edge of your territory. It's not the place that makes it so you never existed. It's borderline nonsense, I know, but death is unfathomable that any rational theory doesn't explain anything in my mind.

The Fool: I think our Life Force(for the lack of a better word) continues, but I am sure our memory is gone, and that the Life Force, blends and becomes other Conscious forms. Like a Buddist Brahma, in a Heraclitian constant flux.

"The things that are perish into the things from which they come to be, according to necessity, for they pay penalty and retribution to each other for their injustice in accordance with the ordering of time,"

Anaximander of Miletus 546 BCE
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Df0512
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1/14/2013 10:23:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I hope it is something as simple as sleep. Death terrifies me as well. And not existing is the worst part. We can't even imagine what that would be like because it wouldn't be like anything.
ConservativePolitico
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1/14/2013 10:28:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 10:23:27 PM, Df0512 wrote:
I hope it is something as simple as sleep. Death terrifies me as well. And not existing is the worst part. We can't even imagine what that would be like because it wouldn't be like anything.

It is a little scary. Even though I'm a Christian the thought still terrifies me. The good thing is if I'm wrong about my religion I just cease to exist, no consequences.

Atheist's Wager for the win.